Newbie here, I hope this is in the right place, my apologies if this is in the wrong place or a repeated question, I did do a quick search but didnt find anything.

So, I have previously owned a 2011 Ibiza estate 1.6 tdi, it was, well, meh. Practical, economical, but all in all a bit boring. It was also made entirely out of plastic bits that kept falling off, and I found it very difficult to work on, so I took it to the local mechanic whenever it needed anything. Quite boring, but nothing really wrong with it. I sold it recently, after buying a 1996 3.9 V8i manual discovery, thinking I had a short commute. Well suprise suprise, 35 miles each way, 14mpg, yep, 5 gallons a day. Not fun. So now Im thinking of getting another economical cheap car.

I like the mk1 VRS, but the boot is a little small if I do sell the disco, dog wont be happy (big dog). Looked at the estate, excellent, except that the 1.9 is less powerful. Boring.

So my question to you lot is, how difficult would it be to make a fabia VRS estate? (Not interested in the petrol auto thing, need the economy of the tdi) so is it just a case of putting the VRS turbo, injectors, ecu etc in the estate, or is it a whole engine swap? Also, is everything covered is black plastic that breaks every time you look at it?

Bonus if it will go in the 2nd gen estate, as the boot is a bit bigger. Also an option, if going the engine swap route, is to swap the entire front subframe (sometimes called the k frame) if I did this, I would buy a VRS donor car and also get a nicer front bumper, etc. If its just the turbo, injectors etc thats different, then is there any reason I couldnt go straight for the common "upgrade" for these parts that people normally change on a VRS? (Or any other pd130 car for that matter?)

Added bonus if it can run on veg oil (SVO) but its not a priority at all.

I hope that all makes sence, any and all advice is much appreciated, thanks!

 

TL;DR

I want fast(ish) economical estate by making the car skoda should have made 20 years ago, the fabia estate VRS 1.9 tdi

The estate only got up to the PD100, and not the PD130. You could always just remap it. Stick the vRS interior and other trim bits (will need a custom rear bumper maybe) such as front bumper and a rear spoiler specifically for the estate if you can find it.

 

Also, these engines won't run SVO due to the injectors AFAIK, there's other threads about it too.

 

Hope this helps.

As stated just get a proper remap and you'll have PD130 power, the six speed gearbox in the VRS is a turd anyway, the five speeder is much stronger and you won't have a DMF to worry about either, chuck some VRS alloys on it and bob's your uncle.

8 hours ago, Reeky said:

 except that the 1.9 is less powerful. Boring.

Bonus if it will go in the 2nd gen estate

also get a nicer front bumper

 

As Sep advised, the standard 1.9 TDI is an excellent starting point with plenty of scope for tuning - either professionally or "at home" as the EDC15 ECU can be modified at home via the OBD port and a purchased generic map. Unfortunately Blacksmoke no longer advertises on the bay as he had a good reputation on many Skoda, VW, Audi forums for his £40 maps, would be wary of some of the ones being sold.

Unsure of your comment "2nd gen estate" as there was a Mk1 facelift which may be considered 2nd gen, but if you mean the Mk2 the pre facelift version was also fitted with the 1.9 TDI, although I am unsure of the ECU fitted in those - these may require a bench remap.

Would you want the VRS bumper and the flimsy VRS cloth seats that all appear to have warn bolsters, surely a Q car is more fun - looks like a standard old mans car until someone tries to pass. 

1 minute ago, KeithCheetham said:

flimsy VRS cloth seats that all appear to have warn bolsters

 

Plus the wire seat frame seems to wear through the base, you can't replace the foam bases since they're not made anymore... and they're grey and hellish to clean allegedly. So I'd recommend the OP gives them a miss as well.

 

2 minutes ago, KeithCheetham said:

surely a Q car is more fun - looks like a standard old mans car until someone tries to pass.

 

Definitely a good idea. Throw a plush westie, a picnic blanket, and a floppy sunhat in the back and bam, sorted.

6 minutes ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

Definitely a good idea. Throw a plush westie, a picnic blanket, and a floppy sunhat in the back and bam, sorted.

 

...or in your case another dead body and the zip ties and duct tape...

1 minute ago, sepulchrave said:

 

...or in your case another dead body and the zip ties and duct tape...

 

Shhhhh, they canny know that.

Thanks for the responses! So yes, I guess another way I could have phrased this is, what are the differences between pd100, pd105 and pd130? A remapped pd100 might make 130hp, great, but I was hoping for remapped pd130 power (circa 165 ish?) Or maybe even more, given that they still seem to get gigantic mpg figures.

5speed vs 6 speed - whats wrong with the 6? I would have prefered the extra gear, but if not then ohh well, 5 it is.

DMF - this would be replaced for a single if/when the clutch needs to be replaced.

Also considering an octavia 4x4, but not sure. My ibiza was a right PITA to drive sometimes. In the wet, when trying to pull out of a junction, it would spin its inside front wheel like crazy and not go anywhere, but then the tyres werent very good at all, but that was only 105hp  Not too keen on an octavia, they seem a bit big, given how rarely Ill have passengers in the back, and my dog is big, but not that big. Also theyre more expensive (more car) and the 4x4 / haldex system strikes me as being a potentially very expensive repair/service bill...

28 minutes ago, Reeky said:

Thanks for the responses! So yes, I guess another way I could have phrased this is, what are the differences between pd100, pd105 and pd130? A remapped pd100 might make 130hp, great, but I was hoping for remapped pd130 power (circa 165 ish?) Or maybe even more, given that they still seem to get gigantic mpg figures.

5speed vs 6 speed - whats wrong with the 6? I would have prefered the extra gear, but if not then ohh well, 5 it is.

DMF - this would be replaced for a single if/when the clutch needs to be replaced.

Also considering an octavia 4x4, but not sure. My ibiza was a right PITA to drive sometimes. In the wet, when trying to pull out of a junction, it would spin its inside front wheel like crazy and not go anywhere, but then the tyres werent very good at all, but that was only 105hp  Not too keen on an octavia, they seem a bit big, given how rarely Ill have passengers in the back, and my dog is big, but not that big. Also theyre more expensive (more car) and the 4x4 / haldex system strikes me as being a potentially very expensive repair/service bill...

 

The sheer amount of work needed for that extra 35 BHP beggars belief, it's also non-trivial since the ECU and wiring loom are completely different between PD100 and PD130. this isn't a straightforward scrapyard tune up.

 

You'll be needing a donor car as well as the estate car, lots of dry, well-lit space, proper tools and the talent to use them and it's gonna cost THOUSANDS.

 

...or you buy the estate car and throw a few hundred quid at it and get 90% of what you want.

 

Now what's it gonna be?

Sepulchrave is right. Either have a hatchback vRS or doll up a PD100 estate and throw a map and some supporting handling modifications at it... and that's about it, at least on a feasible and budget friendly side.

 

Edit - you can get about 140-150bhp out of a PD100 and they're cheaper cars to buy and tax IIRC, plus no DMF to **** away your money on.

Edited 18 February, 20224 yr by AnnoyingPentium

Right, so not a simple plug-n-play thing then. So heres some more questions. Are the internals the same between the 3? (100, 105 and 130) if so, the modifications people do to the VRS should work on the 100/105?

Also, 2 nasty things, DMF and DPF, which ones have these, and which dont?

Octavia 4x4 vs fabia estate, how much heavier is the octy?

Thanks!

3 minutes ago, Reeky said:

Also, 2 nasty things, DMF and DPF, which ones have these, and which dont?

 

130 has the DMF. The PD100 doesn't, don't think the PD105 has one. The last there is only available on the Fabia Mk1.

 

None of those PD engines have a DPF.

 

4 minutes ago, Reeky said:

Octavia 4x4 vs fabia estate, how much heavier is the octy?

 

I'd imagine quite a bit due to 4x4 etc. Parkers website should have information on things like dimensions and weights.

 

5 minutes ago, Reeky said:

Are the internals the same between the 3? (100, 105 and 130) if so, the modifications people do to the VRS should work on the 100/105?

 

I'll leave this one to the experts.

12 minutes ago, Reeky said:

Right, so not a simple plug-n-play thing then. So heres some more questions. Are the internals the same between the 3? (100, 105 and 130) if so, the modifications people do to the VRS should work on the 100/105?

Also, 2 nasty things, DMF and DPF, which ones have these, and which dont?

Octavia 4x4 vs fabia estate, how much heavier is the octy?

Thanks!

 

No, the internals are different, PD130 has different injectors and camshaft, the injectors are the limiting factor on the PD100, there was a guy with a wildly modified PD100 called @devonutopia

 

Only the VRS has the DMF.

 

Octavia is Golf based, Fabia is a Polo so about 200kg difference.

 

You can buy a Golf TDI estate with the PD130 already in it as cheap as chips and they're more reliable than a VRS and bigger too.

 

If I were going to buy a big estate though I'd buy a high mileage Superb with the 2.0 CR engine in it.

8 minutes ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

 

130 has the DMF. The PD100 doesn't, don't think the PD105 has one. The last there is only available on the Fabia Mk1.

 

 I think the105 was in the Mk 2 (07 on) but unsure what the difference is to the 100 - mapping only or mechanical components? There can be issues such as head lift when tuning the 130, so if going down that route you really need to review how deep your pockets are now, and down the line.

2 minutes ago, KeithCheetham said:

 I think the105 was in the Mk 2 (07 on) but unsure what the difference is to the 100 - mapping only or mechanical components?

 

Always wondered that too!

Well, I dont really want a big car, really, a small van, with windows and back seats for occasional use, but I dont really want it to drive like a van, because the small vans are all very very numb to drive. Just a fiesta st/polo gti with enough room for the dog, with diesel economy, and the only thing I can think of is a fabia estate with slight tweaks (/extensive modification)

And it really has got to be a proper banger/****box, my dog will chew it, it will get reversed into when its parked.

Im hoping to get my hands on a scruffy scooby, which Im going to cherish and make nice over time, and that mean not putting my dog in it. Its also still very thirsty so I dont want to drive mega miles in it either

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202202142539317

 

Ambiente is a facelifted Comfort. Needs a little love perhaps. Has some niceties and some other nonsense while being a bit of a "Q car". Don't take the bump strips off though, or else it'll look like my old fridge.

Edited 18 February, 20224 yr by AnnoyingPentium

39 minutes ago, Reeky said:

Well, I dont really want a big car, really, a small van, with windows and back seats for occasional use, but I dont really want it to drive like a van, because the small vans are all very very numb to drive. Just a fiesta st/polo gti with enough room for the dog, with diesel economy, and the only thing I can think of is a fabia estate with slight tweaks (/extensive modification)

And it really has got to be a proper banger/****box, my dog will chew it, it will get reversed into when its parked.

Im hoping to get my hands on a scruffy scooby, which Im going to cherish and make nice over time, and that mean not putting my dog in it. Its also still very thirsty so I dont want to drive mega miles in it either

 

A Golf is hardly a big car, you can figure this out for yourself then.

 

I'm out.

Golf Estate, Roomster, possibly a Jetta if you can saloon.

PD105 in the Roomster can be tuned. Some Aussie lot did some articles a few years back.

On this site: https://www.autospeed.com/cms/a_112589/article

 

Get a PD140 Golf or Jetta and it'll go better but less frugally than a PD130.

Throwing my 2 cents in,

A remapped PD100 is plenty powerful enough for 99% of driving. Slap a rarb on that to make it handle.

If you want a vRS bumper, you need the facelift bumper clips (only if your car is a pre facelift) and you need to extend the foglight wiring on the drivers side (I had to).

vRS seats are hard to keep clean and most of them are trashed by this point. I got a set of Fabia Sport seats in my car, same seat but dark. Then I swapped the drivers and passengers seat base, as the passengers side one was in better shape.

 

I've had some experience with Caddys and Golfs with 1.9 and 2l PD engines. Golf was a 2l Pd140 and it was great, but you wouldn't want any less power in one of them, imo.

That sort of power in a fabia is plenty enough, speaking from experience as my monte is mapped to 140hp.

 

You mention your ibiza spinning up at wet junctions, as a 105hp common rail? I never had an issue with my monte, same engine mapped. It only ever became an issue when I put some winter tyres on, normal tyres you have to really try to get the wheels to spin.

 

Something I don't think anyone else has mentioned is brakes. A mk1 PD100, if i'm not mistaken has 256mm FSIII brakes, can see them getting overwhelmed pretty easy after a remap. vRS' came with 288mm on the front (and discs on the back) for a reason, even my monte (and your ibiza) with the CR105 unit came with 288mm fronts. 

On 21/02/2022 at 02:32, DieselMonte said:

Throwing my 2 cents in,

A remapped PD100 is plenty powerful enough for 99% of driving. Slap a rarb on that to make it handle.

If you want a vRS bumper, you need the facelift bumper clips (only if your car is a pre facelift) and you need to extend the foglight wiring on the drivers side (I had to).

vRS seats are hard to keep clean and most of them are trashed by this point. I got a set of Fabia Sport seats in my car, same seat but dark. Then I swapped the drivers and passengers seat base, as the passengers side one was in better shape.

 

I've had some experience with Caddys and Golfs with 1.9 and 2l PD engines. Golf was a 2l Pd140 and it was great, but you wouldn't want any less power in one of them, imo.

That sort of power in a fabia is plenty enough, speaking from experience as my monte is mapped to 140hp.

 

You mention your ibiza spinning up at wet junctions, as a 105hp common rail? I never had an issue with my monte, same engine mapped. It only ever became an issue when I put some winter tyres on, normal tyres you have to really try to get the wheels to spin.

 

Something I don't think anyone else has mentioned is brakes. A mk1 PD100, if i'm not mistaken has 256mm FSIII brakes, can see them getting overwhelmed pretty easy after a remap. vRS' came with 288mm on the front (and discs on the back) for a reason, even my monte (and your ibiza) with the CR105 unit came with 288mm fronts. 

Once you start driving briskly.... Rather than in a more measured way, even the 288s go off quickly. Three reasonably quick to stops at T junctions will fade them out. Have to point out I came from an Impreza with 304mm AP 4 pots to the Fabia, so my experience may have been biased. Not missing the parts prices or fuel costs to do 200 paltry miles though.

Agree with you there on the 288s, I put 312mm fronts on my monte not long after it was mapped. New pads and discs when I got it but I'm assuming they were cheapy replacements, plenty of meat on them but they started making some pretty horrid noises and just weren't performing as great as they should be. 

Could have put good discs and "fast road" pads on the 288s all the same, but absolutely zero regrets on putting 312s on.

 

Conversely my 288's are excessively powerful, they'll break your nose with a light prod on the middle pedal, Pagid discs and pads probably make a difference but the old 2.0 is a fair bit lighter than the 1.9 PD diesels.

Mine has the 288mm discs still as well - I did put Goodridge metal braided flexible hoses on and replaced the fluid with DOT5 and the brakes are plenty good for my needs ! The pedal feel is great, the car pulls up square and Ive never suffered fade in any form ! 

 

I probably will go with Padgids the next time round as sep as said but I'll wait until she needs them first !!