1.2TSI 2012 DSG Combi broke down last week. I bought it used in 2016 from the main dealer. It's always been noisy when starting - I mentioned this at a service in 2017 - they couldn't recreate it at the time. Now, it seems, this noise has come home to roost.

 

After the breakdown they found just 1l of oil in the engine, yet we hadn't seen a warning light. Dealer's technician says the lack of oil will have exacerbated the timing chain issue. Not quite sure of the damage and it will cost six hours or so in labour to take things apart, but their gut feel is that it'll need a new engine. 

 

To say this is a shock is an understatement. We've bought it from the main dealer, who had sourced the car for its original owner, and had it serviced with that same dealer all the way through. (N.B. the service was due last September but between *looks around at Covid* and garage availability, we were actually booked in for Feb on the week it broke down!)

 

Is the timing chain something that they should be checking on each service?

 

(sorry, I'm in a mixture of anger and shock)

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How many miles has the car done?

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Did you check the oil level back last September when it missed going for a service or since?

 

Edited 21 February, 20224 yr by roottoot

16 minutes ago, roottoot said:

 

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Did it ever get a check by you for the oil level as you got it back last September or since?

 

I wondered the same thing. Note to everyone reading this. Check your fluid levels weekly. You know what looks right and what does not. The human eye will generally pick up a problem earlier, example- fluid a bit low, before the cars technology tells you.  

Sorry i edited.

I had missed that it had not got a service last September.    

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@amcg

When was the last oil and filter change done, and at what mileage?

 

PS

It is not 6 hours to take it apart to see the extent of the damage.

But after less than 2 hours it will be sitting taken apart and then the expense starts getting the car running again with what ever you decide you want them to do after they tell you what they can do.

Edited 21 February, 20224 yr by roottoot

I have recently spent well over £2300 fixing things on our Octavia (including another timing chain) and know the stress and anxiety you must be feeling. I still wonder whether it was worth it, though the cost of a replacement car would be much more and an unknown quantity to boot.

 

On 1.2tsi CBZB/CBZA engines, the cam chain problems are exceedingly common and well known. They are not lifetime components. They should not have ignored your complaint in 2017, there is a old TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) issued by Skoda that should a customer complain about start up noises, that the chain stretch should be measured. Simply by removing the hydraulic tensioner and measuring the position of the chain guide. Its a flawed method, but nevertheless it should have been done.

 

Its likely the car was making the loud rattle on many starts cold and hot prior to failure. Any decent independent would have warned you. I always nag my children, "do not ignore unusual noises, seek advice"

 

My experience on our Octavia 2011/2012 1.2tsi the original chain was only good for 70,000 miles and the new improved kit fitted as replacement was no better, only lasted 60,000 mmile. Now on its 3rd chain at 150k miles.

 

The garage is saying its due to low oil level, and implying you are to blame. If it really only had one 1 litre ( normal capacity is 3.6-3.9 litre) the oil level warning would have long been on. It has a level sensor in the sump and that would come on when the level had dropped to around 2.5 litres.

 

So I wonder where the oil has gone, possibly when the chain detatched it damaged the timing cover and oil spilled out....

 

Other places where oil does escape on these engines is the PCV valve which breaks and detaches (common but not a massive leak),  the oil seperator which is a plastic thing bolted on the back of the engine and can leak, again not a massive amount, or if someone changes the cam chain and neglects to change the timing cover crankshaft seal. All of which should be easily seen by the technician servicing your car.

 

It sounds as if the chain has finally detached or skipped the sprockets so terminally damaging the engine, primarily pistons hitting the valves.

 

Beware that 6 hours at dealer rates just to assess damage will be a lot of money, at least £500. They should know what the likely damage is within an hour, check chain, check valves and pistons with a bore scope. No point in stripping until likely costs are discussed and agreed.

 

I would seek a decent independent specialist to assess the damage, if its salvageable, they will be far cheaper.

 

With luck it could be just a timing kit, new valves, seals and some bits etc. Surprisingly, a brand new original Skoda cylinder head isnt that expensive.

 

https://www.skoda-parts.com/spare-part/03f103351a-cylinder-head-20332.html

If too much damage or too expensive,  2nd hand replacement engines are available on places like ebay but I suspect few will be good ones.

 

Alternatively, there are places that will buy your car as is, get quotes. Or sell it on ebay for parts.

 

The big question is whether you think its worth repairing considering the value of your car and what condition the rest if the car is in, is it the tip of the proverbial iceberg (thinking of the DQ200 DSG box you have which may be another ticking time bomb), where you risk a financial black hole.

 

I retained the old parts of the last chain replacement (latest kit). I may eventually get round to posting pictures on Briskoda as evidence that the chain drive on these engines is a fundamentally flawed ddesign

 

Finally I think I have read of cases where Skoda/dealer gave a goodwill contribution even well out of warranty, highly unlikely here but worth asking, make sure the dealer at least asks Skoda UK.

 

Edited 21 February, 20224 yr by xman

1 hour ago, xman said:

The garage is saying its due to low oil level, and implying you are to blame. If it really only had one 1 litre ( normal capacity is 3.6-3.9 litre) the oil level warning would have long been on. It has a level sensor in the sump and that would come on when the level had dropped to around 2.5 litres.

 

So I wonder where the oil has gone, possibly when the chain detatched it damaged the timing cover and oil spilled out....

My thoughts exactly, it sounds like typical BS to cover the fact that the cam chain which was reported to them has now gone, spouted by someone lacking the knowledge to realise they have condemned themself with their own words.

 

I don't wonder where the oil has gone because I dont believe any oil has gone anywhere, unless of course your scenario happened and even then as you rightly say there would have been a warning well before.

 

Their lies are probably motivated by the fact that they have little confidence that they could repair the engine (cam chains, tensioner, valves, possibly valve guides) without cocking up something else, they want to fit a complete engine and blame the customer for the need to do so.

Edited 21 February, 20224 yr by J.R.

Please post the photos and explanation of your old timing chain & tensioner Xman, they will be very informative.

Thanks for the replies folks. Very interesting and useful.

 

I've contacted the main Skoda people directly on this matter. They have said they'll contact the dealer themselves. No promises, obviously. 

 

We happen to have been the first people in our circle of family and friends to buy a Skoda.

 

We'd spoken so highly of our Octavia, and others had been so impressed with how it performed and how we used it, that fully five others were purchased. And now ours is dead. 

 

Ideally I hope to work with Skoda and the dealer to find a solution - whether short or long term - where I can still look upon the Skoda relationship positively. But right now the well is poisoned.

Good luck. 

 

If I were you, I would reason with the dealer along the lines of:

• This car was sold twice by you & only ever serviced by you
• Timing chain problems are a very well-known issue on this engine
• You complained about a "noisy startup" to them in the past, which you have now learned is a key symptom of timing chain issues
• Timing chains don't suddenly go bad overnight, usually the symptoms develop over time and you had been mentioning the noisy startups to them since 2017! They had several service opportunities during which they could have picked it up but didn't
• You expect better more pro-active service experience from them given they are a main-deleter and supposed to be the experts

 

Probably unlikely they are going to cover the entire bill for a car of this age/mileage - but they should make a significant contribution

On 27/02/2022 at 10:28, andythomnz said:

Good luck. 

 

If I were you, I would reason with the dealer along the lines of:

• This car was sold twice by you & only ever serviced by you
• Timing chain problems are a very well-known issue on this engine
• You complained about a "noisy startup" to them in the past, which you have now learned is a key symptom of timing chain issues
• Timing chains don't suddenly go bad overnight, usually the symptoms develop over time and you had been mentioning the noisy startups to them since 2017! They had several service opportunities during which they could have picked it up but didn't
• You expect better more pro-active service experience from them given they are a main-deleter and supposed to be the experts

 

Probably unlikely they are going to cover the entire bill for a car of this age/mileage - but they should make a significant contribution

Dealer's position is that even if the noise we complained about in 2017 was the timing chain it would have gone long before now. Ergo, in their view, it wasn't the timing chain then.

 

Both dealer and main Skoda people are saying it's a ten year old car and this is just a thing that happens in a ten year old car. Hard luck.

 

I've had another chat asking for a more creative solution. Not getting anywhere fast.

 

To be fair it was not that any years ago that it was nothing short of a miracle for a vehicle to still be on the road after 10 years.

 

I think 10 years is far too long to be expecting anything even a creative solution from Skoda or the dealer who sold you a 4 year old vehicle 6 years ago, even back then you would have had an uphill struggle after 6 months let alone 6 years.

Edited 4 March, 20224 yr by J.R.

miracle eh? ah come off it

On 04/03/2022 at 19:03, J.R. said:

To be fair it was not that any years ago that it was nothing short of a miracle for a vehicle to still be on the road after 10 years.

 

I think 10 years is far too long to be expecting anything even a creative solution from Skoda or the dealer who sold you a 4 year old vehicle 6 years ago, even back then you would have had an uphill struggle after 6 months let alone 6 years.

Maybe you still live in the world of instantly disposable cars, but the rest of us have moved on.

You missed your target by a country mile there but did give me a good laugh!

 

My last vehicle Octavia 1 Combi Elegance bought in 2005 at 3 years old with 188000 miles for £3K, I drove it for 14 years taking it up to 350000 miles.

 

 

Edited 8 March, 20224 yr by J.R.

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

You missed your target by a country mile there but did give me a good laugh!

 

My last vehicle Octavia 1 Combi Elegance bought in 2005 at 3 years old with 188000 miles for £3K, I drove it for 14 years taking it up to 350000 miles.

 

I understand that you dont want to hear that you are pi55ing in the wind pursuing a motor dealer for a claim on a 10 year old car that you purchased from them 4 years ago but in reality it is you that will ultimately have to move on.

 

Your two posts don't really make sense. But thanks. 

I thought the posting from Black75 was a reply from yourself, sorry for the response, I know better than to bite when a troll pushes buttons but had thought it was you.

 

I will now edit out the bit replying mistakenly to you.

Edited 8 March, 20224 yr by J.R.