Edited 10 March, 20224 yr by roottoot

Osprey, now 49p per kWh

https://www.speakev.com/threads/osprey-price-increase.167641/

 

Feels like the industry is standarising to around 50p per kWh.

 

 

53 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Osprey, now 49p per kWh

https://www.speakev.com/threads/osprey-price-increase.167641/

 

Feels like the industry is standarising to around 50p per kWh.

 

 

 

This is so expensive, needs something in the Budget like dropping the VAT to 10% or even 5%. UK government would still gets its pound of flesh with prices this high.

 

4 thousand miles driven and still no Rapid charger used by me.  If it is a long journey and I think I would need a charge looking at the dashboard data then I simply slow down.

 

The Zoe is capable of 300 or even 400 miles if one slows down, peels off the motorway, drives through the villages the miles per Kilowatt hour starts rising to 5, 6 or even 7 miles per kWh.   Think I would be a bit of a hazard doing the 20 mph done to achieve the 430 or so miles done in the record books.

 

I am tempted to test the Rapid charger port on the Zoe, just to know that £1k option does actually work and it is there if I ever desperately need it.

 

Still not sure if it is a good thing to occasionally rapid charge or it does a little bit more damage every time one does it compared to the gentle charging of the 3.6 kWh home and destination chargers I use.   Used an 11 kW charge once at a nice little cafe in Gloucestershire, want to find a 22 kW AC to see if that works too and I see they are sometime cheaper than DC, rightly so I suppose as the provider will take the hit on the 10% rectification losses hence higher prices for DC as well as the kit being much more expensive and the provider needing to recoup their capital investment. 

 

Roll on even better solar generator boxes I can sling in the boot and charge from my own box when I am out and about. 

 

It doesn't feel fair to our fossil burning friends to lower EV charging VAT. If anything, I would support increase of rapid charging VAT to discourage its use. Aim is to get "plug-in at destination" mentality into people's minds, that way in the future we can rely on the masses of parked EV's to balance the grid.

 

Another benefit with increased rapid charger tax is that those who drive more, pay more. Indirectly it is a per-mile tax.

 

Home/overnight/car park destination charging, I think should remain at current tax level, tied with domestic use. This removes complex schemes (less paperwork and thus less overhead) to regulate home chargers.

OK, we are off track again and back to the cost of EV's and travel and not just a place to find the Price Rises.

 

So 50 pence a kWh taking you 3 miles means that £7 takes you 42 miles.                  (4 miles per kWh = 56 miles.)

the 3 miles per kWh @ 50 pence  is pretty near the £7.25 a gallon cost of travel if you get 42 mpg. 

 

What we will see is how much the costs rise in comparison this year if we are working on 50 pence a kWh for people needing to get someplace and pay that and the now 160 pence a litre for petrol that might have a litre take you around 10 miles.   so 45 mpg. 

 

PS

Business users, people going places and doing stuff might well have to charge where and when they can.

Maybe those getting mileage allowances are going to be perfectly fine with the cost of Rapid public charging, but those paying from their own pocket might not.

 

Home and workplace charging costs are a totally different matter for Commercial Public Chargers or Local Authority provided ones. 

Edited 11 March, 20224 yr by roottoot

Personally, I'd be okay with £1 per kWh rapid+ charging, last year, over 5x domestic energy cap, probably 20x normal EV tariff. As long as I can be guaranteed a pleasant charging experience, that means car park (or forecourt) full of rapid for all bays, excellent device up-time (not broken), attended with trained staff and good facilities nearby for family.

 

Let's be honest, we don't use them often....... but every time I do, the single or 2 charger at random locations are either in-use or broken. 😤

 

 

For that reason, I've ordered a Tesla Model Y after testing driving one last weekend. Asked to delay it for German factory ones, may also delay a bit more for rumoured 4680 cells built in the same factory. I'm not in a hurry with the Skoda still feels got plenty of life, just sick of the refuel experience and cost. Superchargers are the most reliable around, in my mind, they are the only viable option for EV long distance travel.  The delayed delivery also gives me time to see if they open up superchargers for public use. 

Instavolt announced another price increase yesterday. 57p/kWh from 4th May!

https://instavolt.co.uk/instavolt-price-statement/

 

13 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

Instavolt announced another price increase yesterday. 57p/kWh from 4th May!

https://instavolt.co.uk/instavolt-price-statement/

 

 

Madness.

So it could cost me over £30 for a full charge, I may as well use one of those expensive diesel/petrol dinosaur burning machines.

 

There come a point when one simply figures to slow down 5,10,15,20 mph etc one will not a lot less of a charge during the journey or not one at at or I will pop in one a large battery "solar generator, and put in a few miles of range when parked in the next bay next to the charge points.

 

Instavolt have some very nice chargers in some good locations but that is taking the peee.  

Do they have a discount arrangement I wonder ?

They are not on the Octopus charge card affiliation yet but I expect that might come.   Even 5% discount is not exactly cheap.

 

I can see both EVs and ICE cars driving along Motorways and Carriageway at annoyingly slow speeds to eek out range and then trucks clipping or hitting them full on as they are desperate to hit their delivery times. 

 

Strange times ahead.   

Pump those tyres up to 45 psi like a TESLA and it handles and brakes like its on ice. 

 

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Madness.

So it could cost me over £30 for a full charge, I may as well use one of those expensive diesel/petrol dinosaur burning machines.

 

Is it madness? Who is driving the uptake in EVs right now? In my experience its mainly company car drivers who like the BIK rates. Private buyers are much fewer. If the majority of drivers are company car drivers, they are the ones on the road needing rapid charges and they won't care about the price as the company is paying. They may have worked out they can cash in on perceived high energy costs with the company car market. We don't know the reason they've increased prices, but they will have factored in the possibility of losing sales over price.

I will use them if I need to even at 57 pence a kWh.     Totally avoiding now counting on BP Pulse and trying to get charged even paying 50 pence a  kWh.     My choice is to get on a PodPoint 50 kWh charger.  Sadly where I need them there are not many.      Never managed to get a Shell Recharge to actually give a charge yet.     InstaVolt so far for me has been the easiest turn up, tap card and get charged. 

12 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

Is it madness? Who is driving the uptake in EVs right now? In my experience its mainly company car drivers who like the BIK rates. Private buyers are much fewer. If the majority of drivers are company car drivers, they are the ones on the road needing rapid charges and they won't care about the price as the company is paying. They may have worked out they can cash in on perceived high energy costs with the company car market. We don't know the reason they've increased prices, but they will have factored in the possibility of losing sales over price.

 

Oh I expect they have  carefully considered the maths and it makes me think Gridserve have got the better plan with their stations that have massive on site battery storage and can load up on their solar and nuclear base load during the night, get energy for 5p a kWh and sell it for 40 or 50 p per kWh, good business model if you can recoup the capital investment as well.

 

I have not found company recompensing for electrical energy much good so far.  If I charge up at home difficult to isolate the charge put in the car and I did investigate getting an Allstar EV charging card which I can get but it did not cover much of the good charging points so I stayed with my diesel card for my diesel fabia as that covers far more cost than an EV charge card and they would not give me a combined one maybe for fear of mis of over use.

 

Be interested to how TESLA drivers manage it, perhaps the TESLA billing for supercharger use is nice and clear.

I only have the Octopus EV charging card other than that it will be using a credit or debit charge which I can pull out from my statements but I hate doing those reclaims charge by charge.

 

Company car tax the EV scheme is great at the moment, only wish my company did it as it would give me between £150 and £300 a month more buying power, I might be able to have a Long Range or Dual Motor TESLA, though EV6 GT sounds very much my sort of dap off.

 

We will see how INSTAVOLT and the other providers do over the next year or two, be interesting to pull their accounts from Companies House !

 

10 kWh @57 pence a kWh £5.70.   

3.5 miles to a kWh x 10 = 35 miles.     4.5 miles a kWh x 10 = 45 miles for £5.70.    Still less than a petrol of diesel unless you have an efficient one. 

 

Looking forward to the painless experience sometime.

Maybe local to me soon. 

  That will be were there is good phone reception and the Shell Recharge system is actually funtioning.

 

 

 

Edited 28 April, 20224 yr by roottoot

I'm always happy to pay for high availability, but 2 chargers is no longer enough to use for planned stops these days.

 

As mentioned, only installing chargers is not ideal. They need to start installing batteries alongside chargers. I'm happy to pay the same or even higher price to support more battery infrastructure as batteries can help the grid, whereas sole rapid chargers are a large burden on the grid. Also sites with batteries tend to have more rapid charger installed, which increases chance to get quick charge.

 

So Instavolt's recent price increase meant they need to evolve into a battery powered hub-like business model to get my money. Like the past year, I'll continue to plan my stops at sites with as many chargers as possible. Single or 2 rapid charger locations are the very last resort for me.

I think most companies are going down the hub route now. (see the other thread about new hubs) Osprey are doing them, Gridserve (obvs) and Instavolt - MfG EV Power have adopted the filling station model it seems . Most recently Instavolt have expanded their Banbury hub and are about to open an 8 charger hub near me on the A5 in Corwen. Sure they are putting in single / double chargers some places as quick fixes as these often do not need new infrastructure from the DNO, but in general multi-charger sites are the new normal.

 

57p/kWh is steep and would put my fuel cost on the ID.4 about the same as my diesel costs would be in my previous Karoq 2.0TDi (based on £1.75/l). That's more than I want to be paying, so Instavolt will be near the bottom of the list of chargers to go to.

Gridserve has also just announced a price increase....

 

• Standalone Low Power AC Chargers    :              39p/kWh
• Electric Forecourts®                                 :              45p/kWh
• Medium Power Chargers                        :              48p/kWh
• High Power Chargers                               :             50p/kWh

https://www.gridserve.com/2022/05/02/gridserve-electric-highway-pricing-update/?LeadSourceCode=crm1017

 

I guess everyone else won't be far behind now 

1 hour ago, Luckypants said:

Gridserve has also just announced a price increase....

 

• Standalone Low Power AC Chargers    :              39p/kWh
• Electric Forecourts®                                 :              45p/kWh
• Medium Power Chargers                        :              48p/kWh
• High Power Chargers                               :             50p/kWh

https://www.gridserve.com/2022/05/02/gridserve-electric-highway-pricing-update/?LeadSourceCode=crm1017

 

I guess everyone else won't be far behind now 

 

Not so bad for Zoe drivers I suppose as "low" power 22 kW chargers are not so bad compared to a 50 kW charger that the Zoe would probably get 44 kW at most and more like 25 kW anyways for the 5 to 20% range and over 80% when charging slows down from 44 to about 22 kw anyways and with each kilowatt-hour adding between 4 and 5 miles in the warmer weather it could be worse. 

 

With the implementation of the The Electric Vehicles (Smart Charge Points) Regulations 2021 in a few weeks time I can see the government having a power to throttle down the high power chargers as the network can no longer handle such massive power requirements of banks of TESLAs and those non-TESLAs that can charge up at up to 350 kWs which is more than a small street requires so for those two daily peak time one will not be able to get such high rates perhaps as those places that have the massive batteries to back up those fast chargers at peak demand times.  

 

Charge Place Scotland charge point tariffs. May 2022. 

https://chargeplacescotland.org/charge-point-tariffs

 

 

This seems like sensible pricing and max charge times.

More 100 /100 + chargers needed around the CPS Charge Points. 

 

 

Edited 7 May, 20224 yr by roottoot

Osprey have announced a hefty price increase to 66p/kWh from 25th July for PAYG and 2nd August for account customers. However, at present it will still be 50p/kWh through the Bonnet app.

Ouch... well rapid charging won't get used.

We are getting to the same as running a diesel.

 

15kWh @ 50 pence a kWh is £7.50  & if you get 3.5 miles a kWh then that is 52.5 miles. 

4 miles a kWh = 60 miles.

15kWh @ 66 pence a kWh is £9.90.

If you rapid charge, I'd agree using a CPO company is getting expensive. I note the CPS chargers are still cheap though, mostly below 40p so that is still economical. We have a few (and I mean few) Transport for Wales chargers here at around 40-45p so not too bad. Home charging is still cheap compared to fossil fuels for most, so in my experience EV is cheaper than ICE equivalent.

As an example, my previous Karoq averaged 45mpg in our ownership (37k miles) which means 10 miles / litre. This makes working out cost per mile pretty straight forward. Around here diesel is £1.93, giving 19.3 p/mile if we were still running our previous car. The ID.4 has an average of 5.47 p/mile over 16k miles and so far this month is 4.83 p/mile. Last month we did 2K miles at 4.49/mile mostly on CPS rapids, but that is skewed by some free charges. But I think it demonstrates how cheap EV is compared with comparable ICE.

I don't do much rapid charging though, mainly home charging and Tesco / Aldi free top ups.

The few 32 Scottish Local Authorities that do still have free EV charging can not continue that for long and many chargers are no longer fit for purpose and the Councils Maintenance Providers can be pathetic as is the time chargers wait for repairs. 

Some of the Hubs already built were done using EU grant money.

Over £50 of public funding has been spent  & some of that was giving grants for chargers that the general public can not access anymore and some that have long since stopped working.

 

The issue is where there are single 50kW chargers in a town or even 2 locations and out of order and the nearest towns which might not be that near also have chargers out of order and there are no Commercial chargers in the area or the route and only 7kW chargers around which is no use when travelling with places to be people including children onboard or just a driver wanting to get around Scotland not on trunk roads or the Central belt. 

 

You can cross a region boundary where it is free to charge or a fixed price of £3,80 unlimited or 30 pence with a 45 minute limit, plug in costs or up to 40 pence a kWh at a hub a few miles from Wallyford which is 30 pence and into Edinburgh it is 35 pence a kWh. 

 

We will see in just a couple of months just how much buying electric at commercial public chargers cost around the UK and at Local Authority charging points / hubs. 

Edited 21 July, 20223 yr by roottoot

I drove 56 miles on Sunday from full, recharged 13 kWh back to full. Only costed £1.12. That's almost the promised 2p/mile EV advertised many years ago. 

I'm currently charging for free at work, meaning a 60 miles commute will only cost me 1 way, 30 miles at 7.5p/kWh => about 60p. 

 

So calculate EV cost/mile based on most expensive rapid charging cost is a bit skewed. With EV's, there's a lot more variable and ways to travel cheaply or even for free. The easiest for ownership  and most important variable would be ability to charge overnight on off-peak pricing. 

 

Similarly, last time I refueled my diesel was at £1.76 in April. I'm hoping I can make it last until price drops back down. All thanks to able to put most of the miles on the EV. 

I am at 28,000 miles for less than £150 which includes buying 2 CPS cards @ £20 each.

That is not any indication of what others might get in the way of much cheapness. 

 

28,000 miles, so 7,000 kWh  if it was at 4 miles per kWh @ 7 pence a kWh only £490.

@ 30 pence a kWh £2,100. 

 

I get 3.1 miles a kWh, so having to charge maybe twice on a trip will be £40 @ 50 pence a kWh and the charging before and after could be free.

so first 135 miles free, and 270 miles costing £40.  

405 miles for £40. 

I am still managing to do it for free apart from the odd time paying on a charger.

 

 If doing it in an ICE getting 45 mpg that would be £75 or so. 

Edited 21 July, 20223 yr by roottoot

6 minutes ago, roottoot said:

I am at 28,000 miles for less than £150

Chapeau! 🙏