Not quite public charger price change. But Octopus EV tariffs have just had their off-peak price risen by quite a high percentage.

 

From 7.5p/kWh for all EV tariff to 12p/kWh for 4 hr Go and 10p/kWh for 6 hr Intelligent. From 40p to 44p day time. While gov subsidised economy 7 is just 14p/40p.

https://www.speakev.com/threads/new-offpeak-rates-octopus-go-12p-intelligent-octopus-10p-😭.172894/

(didn't know emoji can be used in URL)

 

 

On personal note, I've been accepted to next stage for the Indra V2H trial with my Nissan Leaf. If I can get it eventually installed, the off-peak rate will be the only rate I'll ever care about. With a compatible car (Tesla) I can get the 10p Intelligent tariff when my fixed Go tariff (7.5p/35p) comes to an end mid next year.

Currently 2.66p/mile according to Tesla telemetric based on miles driven vs kWh charged, this will become 4.26p/mi at 12p and 3.55p/mi at 10p.

 

 

 

Tesla have also added time-of-use tariff to all their superchargers, around half price overnight, as well as Google maps style busy bar graph for their chargers. Of course, if you got to charge you got to charge, so it's not really useful as opposed to home time-of-use tariff.

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Not quite public charger price change. But Octopus EV tariffs have just had their off-peak price risen by quite a high percentage.

 

From 7.5p/kWh for all EV tariff to 12p/kWh for 4 hr Go and 10p/kWh for 6 hr Intelligent. From 40p to 44p day time. While gov subsidised economy 7 is just 14p/40p.

https://www.speakev.com/threads/new-offpeak-rates-octopus-go-12p-intelligent-octopus-10p-😭.172894/

(didn't know emoji can be used in URL)

 

 

Time for the UK government to reduce the VAT on electrical energy from 5% to something a bit lower, they are taking more and more tax on lecky.

 

At 12p per kWh that is over half a pence on tax on every kWh which means more than a quid a month on a couple of hundred kWh but on a couple of hundred kWh of peak tariff at 44.35p kWh that is over 2p per kWh of VAT or more than £4 a month so more than a £5 a month on lecky alone and probably similar for most on the gas as well hence over £10 a month VAT when it has been less than a £5 just a year ago with the tariff at 5 p per kWh for off peak and less than 20p per kWh for peak rate lecky.

 

Government could drop VAT to 3% from 5% and still be raising more tax than they were a year ago and a 2% drop in energy costs would help the inflation figure too !    

Not sure how fossil burners would feel about dropping VAT on electricity 🤪

 

Indeed government are racking in record tax revenue, but they are also spending HUGE amounts to bring electricity prices down. Whilst I really like your idea, I'm not sure it's ever feasible. If the current government, lead by ex-Shell employee, is ever going to do anything on cost-of-living, it will probably be on fossil fuel tax.

 

But the more pressing issue is public charging costs have a higher VAT and pays higher business rates than people with driveways doing home charging. This is the "great divide" as other thread puts it. There's a new campaign group talking about this: https://www.faircharge.co.uk/

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Not sure how fossil burners would feel about dropping VAT on electricity 🤪

Indeed government are racking in record tax revenue, but they are also spending HUGE amounts to bring electricity prices down. Whilst I really like your idea, I'm not sure it's ever feasible. If the current government, lead by ex-Shell employee, is ever going to do anything on cost-of-living, it will probably be on fossil fuel tax.

But the more pressing issue is public charging costs have a higher VAT and pays higher business rates than people with driveways doing home charging. This is the "great divide" as other thread puts it. There's a new campaign group talking about this: https://www.faircharge.co.uk/

 

Having just 48 hours ago bought a dinosaur juice burning vehicle I am up for a VAT cut on oil and it should have been done on 1st of January 2021 as part of the BREXIT bonus or when fuel prices went up massively as a modifier to fuel prices at the garage as do countries like Belgium.

 

It is an obvious tool as base prices go up then VAT can be tweaked downwards to keep prices lower whilst keeping a similar tax take and balance the books.

 

Even a change from 20% down to 19% would be something and probably more sensible than a 1% lowering of the basic rate of taxation.  

 

The VAT on the electric is a good way of getting in money as the EV,s are not bringing in VED to the treasury / public purse.    But then business users are getting VAT back from charging at Public Chargers.     Time to TAX big fat EV,s,. The big road taking up space ones, that are really really not necessary in many cases as company cars.   Company cars can well be mile crunchers and efficient without being the size and weight of an elephant.    It is a case of needing a Prestige Tax or just have the VAT as is. Maybe put a FAT tax on EV,s.    Just because they take up EV charging bay door opening space.     

Edited 17 October, 20223 yr by roottoot

I like having a large-battery tax on EV's. This ought to put the focus on vehicle efficiency. No point creating pollution to put 100kWh battery to only drive 300 miles.

 

Fat and large vehicles should also have a higher road tax. I agree. Perhaps tiered system based on vehicle road-use area and weight, multiplied by road-use miles driven. Then a one-off tax for large battery.

As it is with ICE vehicles HMRC should be aware of vehicles business milage, cost of purchases and per mile to maintain and fuel ⛽ / charge.    The hybrid kidology was picked up on, so should inefficient EV,s be.   As it is buying and running EV,s and then selling on used can be a financial gain and not a loss.  But then if replacing costs more as they might well be now, and finance costs are higher, swings and roundabouts.  

20 minutes ago, roottoot said:

As it is with ICE vehicles HMRC should be aware of vehicles business milage, cost of purchases and per mile to maintain and fuel ⛽ / charge.    The hybrid kidology was picked up on, so should inefficient EV,s be.   As it is buying and running EV,s and then selling on used can be a financial gain and not a loss.  But then if replacing costs more as they might well be now, and finance costs are higher, swings and roundabouts.  

 

I think using that equation of what cars cost and using it as the Treasury mileage rate went out the door many many years ago.

My ex-colleagues in HMRC would say that the 45p / 25p over 10k miles ha been fixed at its ridiculously low level to try sand force motorist to use public transport rather than use their cars.

 

If one looks at the running costs on a site like fleet news, https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/car-running-costs-calculator, good to see my Arkana comes out at between 41p and 46p a mile and that is quite a good score. 

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/car-running-costs-calculator?Years=4&Miles=80000&CarType=suv-and-crossover&Manufacturer=renault&Model=arkana&CO2From=&CO2To=&BIKPriceFrom=&BIKPriceTo=&SortBy=Manufacturer&SortDesc=False&FuelType=

 

Cheapest car going are the Dacias, also from the Renault stable, running the Dual Fuel system, which actually get in at less than 25p per mile but noting else does as a new car.

 

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/car-running-costs-calculator?Years=4&Miles=80000&CarType=small-car&Manufacturer=renault&Model=&CO2From=&CO2To=&BIKPriceFrom=&BIKPriceTo=&SortBy=PencePerMile&SortDesc=false&FuelType=

 

Wonder how many people cheat on the mileage and as a open question what is the point to point mileage that should be used for Self Assessment and mileage claims from employer ?   Odometer, Google, and then add a bit for comfort break etc ???

 

Looks like Tesco free charging is going. Charges to be levied at the start of November? (I've yet to find an official announcement from Tesco or PodPoint)

https://twitter.com/modernheroestv/status/1583190747825983488?s=20&t=X9x9DcY1ZyJoxoILDETqTA

1 hour ago, Luckypants said:

Looks like Tesco free charging is going. Charges to be levied at the start of November? (I've yet to find an official announcement from Tesco or PodPoint)

https://twitter.com/modernheroestv/status/1583190747825983488?s=20&t=X9x9DcY1ZyJoxoILDETqTA

 

just wish my local Tesco had a rapid charger, still on short supply in Worcester a part from in town car park with wierd operator or train station miles away.

I have now found something on the Pod Point website, confirming Tesco chargers will no longer be free after 1st November.

 

https://pod-point.com/electric-car-news/price-update-tesco-faqs-22

 

Sadly Tesco 7 kW chargers & PodPoints anyplace will now be my 'in an emergency only chargers.'

 

The PodPoint at LIDL is uses this week was 40 pence a kWh for 22 or 50 kW charging.

 

My local council rapid chargers @23 pence are still less than the home tariff i have until February.

 

Today i paid 21, 28 &  30 pence a kWh on Rapid Charges but that sort of price might be limited,

I still have some 'No charge chargers' available to use until next year.  

 

Once at 50 pence a kWh i will likely just use a petrol car winter time or on long trips. 

 

 

Edited 21 October, 20223 yr by roottoot

Bonnet have now moved to a pricing structure that is basically like BP Pulse membership. 

 

Network pricing for payG 

-10% for £2 a month

-15% for £8 a month 

 

That means I'll be deleting this app and just use the simpler contactless payment in the unlikely even that I need to use public charging. 

 

https://www.joinbonnet.com/pricing-update

Edited 27 October, 20223 yr by wyx087

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

That means I'll be deleting this app and just use the simpler contactless payment in the unlikely even that I need to use public charging. 

I have deleted it too. I didn't use it much and was keeping it just for the old 50p PAYG rate as was a bargain if I needed public charging. Now I'll do the same as you, probably using my Electroverse card (Octopus energy).

On a brighter note, Osprey have announced a price REDUCTION from 1st November to 79p/kWh.

Edited 27 October, 20223 yr by Luckypants

Yep. I've now also mostly ditched Zapmap in favour of Octopus Electroverse app. Because Zapmap puts up a paywall for the critical multiple charger location filter. 

 

So for me it's a quick search on Electroverse app, filter by 6 charger per location (a single triple headed unit counts as 3 on this map) but show all chargers. Use their RFID card if I happen to land somewhere that accepts it. 

I have yet to meet anyone at the Tesco 7 kW chargers that are aware on having to pay from the 1st November to use the 7kW chargers.

 

Those i have told have all said they will use the council chargers or just charge at home as they have a low tariff. 

 

 Mony a mickle maks a muckle. 

 They say Aberdonians have long pockets and short arms, but Fly Fifers & Loons and Quines from Tayside have the edge on them.

It's really bad the price changes are not shown on the actual charge points. For Tesco charger, there's a giant screen perfect for this! People are expected to know these things that are "published" on twitter. I really don't know how/why this is acceptable. 

 

I've had similar argument with Chargemaster Polar back in 2018, where a free rapid near my workplace became paid without warning. The screen hasn't changed, no mention of unit pricing, the first thing I learn of it was when I received the monthly membership statement. Even their website pricing hasn't changed and I was told I need to clear my browser cache. 

Finally some good news..... (haha)

 

Actually am I getting 5 hours instead of 4 hours with Octopus cheap lecky between 0030 and 0430 as the clock go back an hour at 0200 so I get  

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am pleased to announce that Osprey will be reducing the price for our rapid EV charging network, to 79p/kWh, effective from 1st November 2022.    We are passing on a saving enabled by the Government’s Energy Bill Relief Scheme.   Why is this only happening now?   The price that you pay at the charger is comprised of the cost of electricity, the cost of installing infrastructure, the operation and maintenance of the charging network, plus 20% VAT on top.

As has been widely reported, the unprecedented electricity wholesale prices in 2022 have driven up the cost of electricity sold to businesses, such as Osprey, by their energy suppliers (at times by over 600%). In September, the Government therefore announced an Energy Bill Relief Scheme to subsidise the wholesale cost of electricity for energy suppliers – resulting in savings they would then pass on to their business customers.   The mechanics of this scheme became clearer during October. It does not guarantee a fixed or capped unit rate per-kWh for businesses; the price is still calculated by the energy supplier and factors in existing wholesale contracts and future market forecasts. Energy suppliers also add on non-commodity costs, their own running costs and margin on top of wholesale electricity, to determine the price that businesses like Osprey pay. The team at Osprey have been working diligently throughout October with our energy supplier to further clarify what this reduction looks like for us. We have now achieved this reduction and are fulfilling the promise we made last month and passing on a saving to our customers immediately.   So what’s next?   Our focus is on continuing to build charging infrastructure for the future. Over the next two years alone Osprey will invest over £50 million expanding its GB-wide public charging network, establishing the much-needed national infrastructure that you can trust and rely on. We thank you for your patience, Ian Johnston CEO - Osprey Charging *Please note that for payment by contactless bank card, some charging stations will be changed over to the new price throughout the day on Tuesday 1 November. To guarantee the lower rate on this day, please use the Osprey App.

Tesco PodPoint charging bays empty at my local Tesco.   Started charging for the first 15 minutes so I never claimed the charger.   That will do mean a couple of times a day if the 15 stays free when just doing my few miles a day locally.  

15 min will always be "free". Podpoint's way of working is that you plug in and go. After you get settled down, you "claim" your charge. 

 

I've been doing something similar at lunchtime with Leaf back when my workplace charging isn't so busy. Plug in for 15min, have lunch, if need more charge, plug in for another 15min, go for a walk, and then return to move the car. They used to unlock the cable at charger end so a quick unplug and plug back in will reset 15min. But now it remains locked until you unplug at car end. 

 

Unfortunately now, unchanged at 12p/kWh, it seems most EV owners are hovering around the charger wanting to get a cheap charge. Work is reluctant rising the price, fear people might have committed to salary sacrifice EV budgeting on this benefit. Despite (with my input) the charger policy states along lines "do not rely on using workplace charger, home charging should be primary source " 

Luckily with my longer range EV doing commute, I don't need to bother charging anywhere else. 

No one else even did a drive by, so plugged in 4 times and am brimmed.   Larry as.  That will be just dandy in the cold mornings.  Heat the car before heading off anyplace.  

 

Just got an email from BP Pulse,

as i was moaning about the cost of charging, so not surprising as i am often.

 

Cheaper is nice, but still too much as far as i am concerned. 

 

Edited 1 February, 20233 yr by toot

Frankly contactless should be cheapest as they don’t have to maintain an app and overheads.

 

it is also the simplest and most reliable option.

 

just my 2p worth.

BP Pulse. 3rd April 2023. 

with the cost of energy actually falling it is stunning that some of the EV charge providers are jacking up the prices by such margins.  Fortunately there are hundreds of new chargers appear each month and some of them are at much more reasonable rates.

 

Just seen that a charger put up at the Worcester community centre, Project EV charger with 22 kw AC outlets.  Quoted cost of charge 28 p per kWh.

Suppose to work with my Octopus Electroverse card.  Spaces not painted as EV only so wombats are parking there willy nilly.  

 

Much cheaper than me charging at home if it is daytime.  Hope to use it and use up some of my free £10 opening balance when I signed up to Electroverse.

The future is getting better for EV at quite a rate but one must be aware of some companies, maybe particular the ex-dinosaure juice companies, who want to continue the exploitation they have with fossil fuel sales.   At least with EVs we have tens of thousands of chargers to choose from and millions of other electrical outlets at homes and offices that are low cost, free or much cheaper than these near 80 p per kWh dispensers where one is paying as much as ICE drivers are paying to fill up.

 

Edited 3 April, 20233 yr by lol-lol