Few years back the infamous wire to the starter had broke, joined it with block connector and worked fine ever since.

 

One night before the hard frost in December the car just wouldn't start. Got power with lights and radio etc but no click when turning key right round.

 

Split and rejoined wire but still nothing. Pulled old solenoid off and tried putting spade terminal directly into the port on to the blade. Still nothing. Was told this should definitely do something but nope.

 

Ordered new solenoid plug but just want to check if anyone else has any ideas?

 

Starting to think it isn't this problem.

 

Cheers

Sounds like the solenoid has thrown the towel in.

With an assistant to turn and hold the key in cranking position, measure for 12V at the connector of the 'wire of doom'.

I have the old reel type lamp that has 2 crocodile clips on rather than the cigarette lighter socket, but the below combination would allow reviewing of power when sat in the car as a 1 man operation by putting the socket with the lamped plug in in a suitable viewable position - smaller crocodile clips may assist. Connecting to earth and power supply to be tested (quick test on battery before use so ensure bulb lights up).

Car Battery Clips 12 Volt Cigar Lighter Adapter Car Cigar Lighter Socket | eBay

5*Car Cigarette Lighter Plugs Lamp Auto Cigarette Lighter Switching Plugs 12V/5A | eBay

Edited 14 January, 20233 yr by KeithCheetham

This is the item mentioned above. As it has approx 10 feet of cable it is generally very easy to locate in a sight of view. In the above scenario, 1 clip would be earthed with the other connected to the "wire of doom" then, when the ignition was switched to the starter position the bulb would light up if 12 volts was being sent to the solenoid.

Edited 14 January, 20233 yr by KeithCheetham

Tested wire of doom and voltage ok, still not starting. Within the new solenoid plug there's a purple plastic ring. Sure it wasn't in the old one? Will I try break it out?

9 minutes ago, geo_rae1 said:

Tested wire of doom and voltage ok, still not starting. Within the new solenoid plug there's a purple plastic ring. Sure it wasn't in the old one? Will I try break it out?

 

Just replace the solenoid or the complete starter motor since the wiring is ok.

Sep, can you remove or get replacement solenoid/ can you get inside solenoid as one common problem is the contact pad. Limits for voltage drop on contact is 0.5volt. Years ago I used to "service" my solenoid by cleaning the contacts to remove corrosion.

In over 50 years of driving I've never had a solenoid coil fail, but that is one possibility. Easily checked by measuring resistance of coil. Other possibility for "no click" is poor earth, as a bad earth will drop volts to solenoid and prevent it operating.

 

If you want to be totally sure before you spend money changing the starter/solenoid, you can test it the opposite way by dropping 12v from the battery down a bit of wire straight to the spade connector on the solenoid. If the key is off, it should spin over when you connect the power (make sure you're not in gear), or start if the key is on. 

4 hours ago, VWD said:

Sep, can you remove or get replacement solenoid/ can you get inside solenoid as one common problem is the contact pad. Limits for voltage drop on contact is 0.5volt. Years ago I used to "service" my solenoid by cleaning the contacts to remove corrosion.

In over 50 years of driving I've never had a solenoid coil fail, but that is one possibility. Easily checked by measuring resistance of coil. Other possibility for "no click" is poor earth, as a bad earth will drop volts to solenoid and prevent it operating.

 

 

You certainly can get new solenoids, you just have to get the right physical fit, internally they're all much of a muchness.

5 hours ago, VWD said:

can you get inside solenoid

 

Not unless you destroy the crimpy thing.

 

Put 12v straight to starter and nothing. Will get new starter unit ordered. Cheers

New starter came from ebay.. (wrong starter came from ebay) already removed original one from car. Tested it again outside car with battery and it fired fine no matter how many times I tried it. Refitted it, nothing. When turn key back to off position can hear the splined drive falling back in to casing so sounds like it's doing it's thing. Could the crank position sensor or something be causing problems?

On 14/01/2023 at 08:34, Breezy_Pete said:

With an assistant to turn and hold the key in cranking position, measure for 12V at the connector of the 'wire of doom'.

Did you try this?

I did, 12v was there. I've got a new starter coming to rule that out anyway. The right one this time hopefully. Cheers

On 13/01/2023 at 12:51, geo_rae1 said:

One night before the hard frost in December the car just wouldn't start. Got power with lights and radio etc but no click when turning key right round.

 

 

4 hours ago, geo_rae1 said:

 When turn key back to off position can hear the splined drive falling back in to casing so sounds like it's doing it's thing. Could the crank position sensor or something be causing problems?

 Has the car been started/moved since you had this issue. Looks like issue has changed since 1st post, nothing happening then, working now. Assuming the starter gear was throwing out AND ROTATING when you tried, if the car hasn't started or moved since initial issue, put in 5th gear and push a few feet forward, back into neutral and try - thought being missing teeth on ring gear.

 Why are you saying crank sensor, this may only be a problem if the engine is turning over on the starter - without rotation it has no impact.

10 hours ago, geo_rae1 said:

Could the crank position sensor or something be causing problems?

 

Crank position sensor has nothing to do with the starter motor.

It's not been started but has been moved since. Yeah it must of been throwing out at the start but I couldn't tell. Yeah someone mentioned it maybe wasn't starting due to crank sensor or something. Was just making sure.

Crank sensor wouldn't stop it turning over. 

 

There can be a difference between 12v showing on a multimeter at the end of a wire and a useful amount of current being able to flow down it if the wires a bit mashed up inside. That's the benefit of using a test bulb like Keith said. 

 

If it didn't spin when you ran a hot wire to it on the car, yeah, I'd suspect it's the solenoid at fault. 

Thread bump because I have the same issue after changing the passenger side engine mount.

I have had the starter solenoid cable fail before and did a repair with a heat shrink crimp connection.

Initially I thought that was the most likely failure point but I have got 12v on the multimeter at the end of the solenoid cable when I try to start the car (put negative probe on the gearbox to earth).

I am terrible at electrics, am I right in thinking the solenoid is earthed somewhere so that could have failed which would explain why I get 12v when I manually make the earth but it wouldn't do anything when relying on the loom earth?

The engine has to drop a fair amount to change that mount, I'm guessing an earth or possibly starter connection has been disturbed?

If anyone else comes across this - it was the earth point closest to the starter motor was slightly loose. Removed, wire brushed all surfaces and tightened up and all good.

That connection is often the worst in the whole high-current system, in my experience. Temperature cycling and minimal protection from corrosion are probably factors.

To check solenoid, put meter on 12v range or on auto , across main feed ( heavy duty cables, from battery and into starter).

Try to start engine and check meter. Drop from my older can manuals should be less than 0.5volt .

It used to be possible to open the solenoid and clean contacts to reduce voltage drop. These days ????