Hi Guys,

I have been adding and changing the Wikipedia Article on the Skoda Fabia for quite a while now-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skoda_Fabia

I was wondering if anyone would add any additional information about the Fabia or suggest/implement a better structure on how the information is relayed. I have done most of the Main article myself (I haven't touched the vRS Section).

I read somewhere that the 1.0 engine used in the Lupo is actually a downsized version of the the old skoda 1.3 engine used in the Felicia. It was going to be used in the Fabia but it never made it to Briton.

That looks pretty good to me mate!

A good effort that... keep up the good work

Looks good and very comprehensive

I'm still not sure about this "quicker" than a 330i 50-70mph comment though. Looking here, you can see that the BMW gets to 70 in 7.7 seconds, so it ain't going to spend 6 seconds getting from 50-70mph, unless it's in the wrong gear!

Chris

Looks good and very comprehensive

I'm still not sure about this "quicker" than a 330i 50-70mph comment though. Looking here' date=' you can see that the BMW gets to 70 in 7.7 seconds, so it ain't going to spend 6 seconds getting from 50-70mph, unless it's in the wrong gear!

Chris[/quote']

definately need to put that those times are in gear times. as an elise which poo all over 20-40 times if in right gear - ie 1st! Bit miss leading without the in gear part...

definately need to put that those times are in gear times. as an elise which poo all over 20-40 times if in right gear - ie 1st! Bit miss leading without the in gear part...

It does mention "in gear" in the article, but my point is it doesn't say in which gear! eg, any car will pi$$ all over another car if it's in the wrong gear, as we saw with the Fiat vs Evo on Top Gear, so I just wondered what "in gear" actually means (if it means anything)

Chris

I've never understood this "in gear" bolleaux. Surely each driver will pick the most suitable gear to accelerate through a given speed range? I can't see how comparing times in the same gear on completely different cars with different gearboxes, engine technologies and power to weight ratios makes any sense at all.

What does "in gear" actually mean, anyway?

Edit: Doh! beaten to it

It's a good indication of real world useability and engine elasticity - I'm back in a work Celica (190bhp) and it's absolute crap off the limit - in gear times would give an indication of this.

It has been said that the better the in gear times the better the real world performance. For example if I'm in the Celica not racing anyone then I'm doing 70mph in 6th (to try and minimise all the bloody racket), if I need to get into a gap or quickly accelerate it's gotta go down to 3rd at that speed - the gearchange takes a second or more and there's no guarantee that you'll land bang on the power band unless you're paying attention - wouldn't it be better to leave the car in 6th and have the acceleration instantly?

wouldn't it be better to leave the car in 6th and have the acceleration instantly?

You should have instant acceleration anyway, otherwise you're in the wrong gear for the speed and engine revs. Well, according to IAM and the like...

Rob.

50-70 times are normally measured in 4th gear. I would have thought a 330CI would be able to do almost 70 in second and the fabia could do it in 3rd.

however in the real world you don't cane it everywhere (at least I don't as fuel is expensive) so 50-70 is a decent example of what a car would be like if you just put your foot down.

however in the real world you don't cane it everywhere (at least I don't as fuel is expensive) so 50-70 is a decent example of what a car would be like if you just put your foot down.

So an auto should post better real world times than a manual as it will shift to a more suitable gear?

Chris

So an auto should post better real world times than a manual as it will shift to a more suitable gear?

Chris

Well going by what I said yes but I didn't mean foot flat to the floor just sort of putting it down although that could be an advantage for an auto

I didn't write any of The Fabia vRS Section or anything about the In gear accelleration, But this is wikipedia so get stuck in

So an auto should post better real world times than a manual as it will shift to a more suitable gear?

Chris

Yes, and they do but only because they kick down on their own - locked in a particular ratio they would be slower.

And Rob - at 4k rpm in 6th at 70 I'm most definitly not in the wrong gear if it doesn't pull - I'm in the wrong car!

I'm an IAM member myself and there is nothing wrong with having to change down to accelerate briskly - by your reasoning anything with variable valve timing in a performance set-up would only use the first 3 gears :thumbdwn:

Would someone who apparently understands this, please define "in gear"?

It's being used as a technical term, but I fear everybody's interpretation of it is different. Does it mean "in top gear", "in the gear closest to a 1:1 engine/gearbox drive ratio", "in the most suitable gear" or what? I'm not being funny here, but different cars have a) different numbers of gears, different power bands and c) different fuelling technology. If I want to progress quickly from 50 to 70 in a petrol car, I'm likely to choose 3rd gear. If I want to do it in a diesel, I'll probably need 4th at least. Now how are these two supposed to be compared?

Just because diesels have a lot of torque shouldn't mean the petrol driver should be constrained not to use his gearbox, to me. By the same token, how about 50-100 mph? The petrol driver could probably do that in a single gear, so how should we compare that one?

I tend to take it to mean in 'a given gear'. Without specifying this would usually be the gear most correctly suited to normal driving at that speed. On a motorway (regardless of car) this would usually be 5th/6th-whichever is highest.

Yes a Scooby/Clio 182/Celica/Whatever at 7000rpm is pulling better than a furby at 2000rpm but I personally find cars with little or no low-down torque hard work to drive - fun for 15 minutes on a twisty road but at over 100 miles a day they soon lose their appeal - to me the Fabia is a significantly quicker car than the Celica because I don't spend my life at 6200+RPM just in case I need to accelerate - as previously stated the gear change takes a second or more, the car may still not be in the power band and by then you've missed the opportunity to do whatever you wanted to do anyway.

Edit: In gear times reflect normal people driving normally and having available, useable performance. They do not reflect boy-racers thrashing the nuts off their cars every two seconds.

I'd hardly call the VAG 1.8T or the BMW 330, engines with "little or no low-down torque". Yes you can accelerate from 50 to 70 in fifth, if you want to. It won't be as quick as if you did it in third, and it may not be as quick as a Fabia VRS. It's just one isolated test where the torque of the diesel engine scores. However, when you come to comparing times with other models, and bragging about "beating" the BMW mentioned in the article, it's just an example of fitting the statistics to the story you want to tell. In the real world, if the Fabia and the 330i driver were on the same bit of road and wanted to race each other from 50 to 70, I know which one my money would be on, and I wouldn't expect to complain that the BMW driver was "cheating" if he chose not to use 5th or 6th gear for the purpose.

PS if the speed on a motorway drops to 50, I'll usually change down to 4th, at least. To me that's the gear "most correctly suited to normal driving at that speed".

You may do all of your acceleration at the fastest rate your vehicle will possibly allow, most people do not. You seem genuinely upset about this, calm down

The folks on here claiming to beat 330's etc are slightly delusional - yes the in gear times are quicker but this is only an indication of the engine elasticity, not an indication of who would win a race.

I really don't think anyone on here would call you a cheat for changing gear.

Nah, I don't always change down, but when you're quoting performance times, you've got to expect the driver to adapt his driving style to get the most out of his car. To artificially constrain two completely different vehicles, so that the results come out in favour of your particular favourite, seems like a pointless exercise to me, that's all

Not upset in the slightest - just rather baffled.

The question still hasn't really been answered though - what gear do the "in-gear" times refer to for the two cars. Until you know that, you can't really give the times the relative weightings for artificial versus real conditions.

The Top Gear Punto vs Evo test was a good illustration of how pointless such things can get, imho.

To artificially constrain two completely different vehicles' date=' so that the results come out in favour of your particular favourite, seems like a pointless exercise to me, that's all

[/quote']

Here here.

By the way, that 330i has about the same amount of torque as the Fabia.

(215 vs 228 lbft, from memory)

Other thing to note is that there is a fair chance that a 6 cylinder BM will be a steptronic throwing all of this out the window - hit the pedal and the 'box will kick down to the 'correct' gear anyway...

Great engine, that 3.0i, though

I think it literally means in the same gear, all other factors ignored. :confused:

I agree it's not massively useful but the more information you have before buying a car the better qualified you'll be to make the choice.

Petrol-diesel might not be overly fair, but imagine you were looking at a 330i and an IS300 and wanted to compare, 0-60 and top speed don't give an indication of how well the car performs off the red line - it's just that bit more information to help you make the choice I guess.

And if it makes the Furby look good and upsets Beamer drivers all the better :P