Your thoughts please

[Goladdy]

Immediately after a basic service at an independent garage my 2018 Kodiaq 1.4 TSi suffered what is beginning to look like a common fault. For some reason which I doubt is linked to the service the camshaft pulley bolts worked loose. The cost to put things right at the Skoda dealers where I bought the car was £1055. This is something I have been discussing on another forum and its reached the point where some say I have a case for compensation and others say I don't have a chance. Everyone agrees this should not have occurred  on a 2018  car with less than 25000 miles on the clock.  Some say compensation will be declined simply because the car was not serviced by a Skoda franchised dealer. Does this mean that a Skoda garage would have checked the bolts as part of a routine service . If that's the case then Skoda would be admitting they know of a recurring fault of which I should have been informed when I bought the car from them. Your thoughts appreciated thanks.  

[J.R.]

Your car is out of warranty, they have no obligation to compensate you.

 

Everyone agreeing that this should not have happened is meaningless, the MTBF (mean time before failure) is a statistical average figure, for a given component some vehicles will suffer early failure some will go on for ever.

 

 

1 hour ago, Goladdy said:

Some say compensation will be declined simply because the car was not serviced by a Skoda franchised dealer. Does this mean that a Skoda garage would have checked the bolts as part of a routine service

 

You should ask that question of those making the claim, my answer would be no.

Edited 16 December, 2023 by J.R.

[kodiaqsportline]

There's no harm asking but I would be surprised if Skoda would contribute anything toward the repair and that's because if they were to contribute, they'd want something in return. It has nothing to do with anyone checking the bolts during a service, rather If you'd been loyal to the Skoda brand in maintaining your car, then in return they may reward you with goodwill. Why show goodwill to someone who hasn't been loyal?

 

I'd have to search the internet about this issue as this is the first I've heard of the problem. That's not to say it doesn't happen to others, I'm just saying it's not common enough for there to be a manufacturing issue hence compensation. My guess is the manufacturer is likely to say it's a wear and tear item, all part of the pleasure of owning something mechanical, but as I say if you don't ask you don't get.

 

You're going to be paying premium prices at a Skoda dealer to have it repaired so I'd be concentrating my efforts looking for an independent to carry out the work.  

Edited 16 December, 2023 by kodiaqsportline

[silver1011]

Has the cambelt been changed?

 

if they’re charging over £1,000 to replace just the pulley bolts (less than £20 of parts, so the rest is presumably labour) then you may as well have them change the cambelt and tensioners whilst they’re at it.

 

Strange pricing as a complete replacement cambelt for a 1.4 TSI is less than £800 at a main dealer and they remove the same bolts anyway.

 

Ask them to perform a cambelt change and save yourself £200+, the bolts are stretch bolts and must be replaced after each removal…

[Goladdy]

On 16/12/2023 at 18:21, J.R. said:

Your car is out of warranty, they have no obligation to compensate you.

 

Everyone agreeing that this should not have happened is meaningless, the MTBF (mean time before failure) is a statistical average figure, for a given component some vehicles will suffer early failure some will go on for ever.

 

 

 

 

Out of warranty is one thing but when there are collective thoughts saying it should not have happened then in my book its leaning towards "not fit for purpose"  However the request for compensation is in and I will let you know Skoda's response .

 

[Goladdy]

On 16/12/2023 at 20:34, kodiaqsportline said:

There's no harm asking but I would be surprised if Skoda would contribute anything toward the repair and that's because if they were to contribute, they'd want something in return. It has nothing to do with anyone checking the bolts during a service, rather If you'd been loyal to the Skoda brand in maintaining your car, then in return they may reward you with goodwill. Why show goodwill to someone who hasn't been loyal?

 

I'd have to search the internet about this issue as this is the first I've heard of the problem. That's not to say it doesn't happen to others, I'm just saying it's not common enough for there to be a manufacturing issue hence compensation. My guess is the manufacturer is likely to say it's a wear and tear item, all part of the pleasure of owning something mechanical, but as I say if you don't ask you don't get.

 

You're going to be paying premium prices at a Skoda dealer to have it repaired so I'd be concentrating my efforts looking for an independent to carry out the work.  

The Skoda dealer is a 20mile trip and a pain to get to. Therefore any minor repairs are done by the garage on my doorstep so its purely economics nothing to do with loyalty .

I'm sure Skoda will come up with their own excuses as to why a bolt should work loose, personally I can't see wear and tear can be justified. 

[kodiaqsportline]

43 minutes ago, Goladdy said:

The Skoda dealer is a 20mile trip and a pain to get to.

 

🤪   Hardly Skoda's fault.

 

If someone were to travel 20 miles past several other garages on the way then that's a sign of loyalty.  If someone chooses somewhere closer because it's cheaper or more convenient... 

It sounds like it has everything to do with loyalty to me.

 

Personally I wouldn't offer a customer goodwill if they're going to take their business elsewhere but as I say, what you ask for you don't get, so it's at least worth a try.

 

personally I can't see wear and tear can be justified. 

 

Question:   how are you going to prove that the bolt's came loose as a result of faulty manufacture?  Until you can answer that question, the likelyhood is a goodwill gesture is all you have to rely on for Skoda to fix the car. That's why I suggested it's probably better to spend your time looking for cheaper fixes from a 3rd party.

Edited 18 December, 2023 by kodiaqsportline

[Goladdy]

21 hours ago, silver1011 said:

Has the cambelt been changed?

 

if they’re charging over £1,000 to replace just the pulley bolts (less than £20 of parts, so the rest is presumably labour) then you may as well have them change the cambelt and tensioners whilst they’re at it.

 

Strange pricing as a complete replacement cambelt for a 1.4 TSI is less than £800 at a main dealer and they remove the same bolts anyway.

 

Ask them to perform a cambelt change and save yourself £200+, the bolts are stretch bolts and must be replaced after each removal…

This is how the events unfolded :- I phoned the Skoda dealers making a booking and explaining the symptoms, they said the earliest repairs could be done was three weeks time. 

I took the car in and their chief mechanic immediately removed the timing cover and showed me photos of the loose bolts. He said he would try and fit the work in before the scheduled date.  Nothing more was said at this point so I assumed wrongly I was facing a bill of £100 tops  Fast forward two weeks and I received an estimate of £1055.  Apparently they found oil leaking from the camshaft seal which I gather is the reason why just about everything to do with the timing gear was replaced.

Apart from a new belt, £101 tensioner,£69 roller 45, a few screws and cover a new adjuster was also fitted £307  maybe all these components were contaminated who knows.  

[J.R.]

£101 for an £8 cambelt, they certainly have a sense of humour!

 

6 minutes ago, Goladdy said:

they found oil leaking from the camshaft seal

 

So nothing to do with a faulty manufactured bolt then. Aside from piston rings, crankshaft bearings and camshafts its hard to think of anything more obviously deemed a wear and tear item than a rotary seal, or do you still consider that its not fit for the purpose because you have found a sympathetic consensus?

[Goladdy]

4 minutes ago, J.R. said:

£101 for an £8 cambelt, they certainly have a sense of humour!

 

 

So nothing to do with a faulty manufactured bolt then. Aside from piston rings, crankshaft bearings and camshafts its hard to think of anything more obviously deemed a wear and tear item than a rotary seal, or do you still consider that its not fit for the purpose because you have found a sympathetic consensus?

Have you heard the saying what came first The chicken or the egg.  Loose camshaft pulley bolts could easily have caused the oil seal to leak

A bolt when set to the correct torque does not suffer wear and tear, so what is your explanation as to why it became  loose ? seriously.

The cambelt hype is duley  noted 

4 minutes ago, J.R. said:

£101 for an £8 cambelt, they certainly have a sense of humour!

 

 

So nothing to do with a faulty manufactured bolt then. Aside from piston rings, crankshaft bearings and camshafts its hard to think of anything more obviously deemed a wear and tear item than a rotary seal, or do you still consider that its not fit for the purpose because you have found a sympathetic consensus?

 

[J.R.]

1 minute ago, Goladdy said:

so what is your explanation as to why it became  loose ? seriously.

 

Lubrication creating differential movement between the pulley and shaft, keyways and dowelling were all rendered obsolete with clamped joints using stretch bolts in the quest for cost reduction, it works well unless partnered with oil.

 

You should consider yourself very very lucky that the bolts did come loose and gave you some warning, had there been a traditional keyes or dowelled fixing then the first you may have known of the leak would have been bent valves piston and perhaps cylinder head damage when the cam belt failed.

[J.R.]

I never suggested that the bolts suffered wear and tear, it was very clear that I spoke of a rotary (oil) seal, the bolts coming loose were a consequence of the alleged worn seal and having dropped your trousers to a main dealer you will never get to know if that really was actual source of the oil leak.

 

The independant garage would have nothing to be defensive about other than their service being blamed which you didn't.

 

Your chicken and egg scenario might be valid but in another sense, I believe there is some oil pressure operated actuator on the camshafts, I dont know the engine well but have read of several of these failures, others hopefully will confirm but could it be that the bolts hold the actuator and its seal(s) and that them coming loose would allow oil leakage?

 

I would know the answer to that if it were my engine because I would have done the work myself.

[Goladdy]

44 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I never suggested that the bolts suffered wear and tear, it was very clear that I spoke of a rotary (oil) seal, the bolts coming loose were a consequence of the alleged worn seal and having dropped your trousers to a main dealer you will never get to know if that really was actual source of the oil leak.

 

The independant garage would have nothing to be defensive about other than their service being blamed which you didn't.

 

Your chicken and egg scenario might be valid but in another sense, I believe there is some oil pressure operated actuator on the camshafts, I dont know the engine well but have read of several of these failures, others hopefully will confirm but could it be that the bolts hold the actuator and its seal(s) and that them coming loose would allow oil leakage?

 

I would know the answer to that if it were my engine because I would have done the work myself.

Whoa ! I never said you suggested anything,  I was just making a statement about the bolts.  Anyway its all speculation on my part and as you say the cause of the oil leak

(if there was one) may never be revealed,  However one thing Skoda's chief mechanic did say was he's known similar scenario's whereby pulley bolts have become loose after fresh engine oil was introduced. I'm still none the wiser as to how engine oil comes into contact with any bolts housed inside the timing cover..

Good post by the way, Long gone are the days when I did battle with car engines,  I remember how satisfying it was when all the bits went back in with nothing left over.   

[Goladdy]

Ding Dong, wonders will never cease,  My premium bonds have just paid out handsomely and Skoda bless um came across with a few hundred quid so Ho, Ho, Ho Merry Christmas to me and  to all you sceptics  

[kodiaqsportline]

 

Beyond comment. Hopefully the moderators can end this thread a.s.a.p

Edited 22 December, 2023 by kodiaqsportline