So its my understanding that the mk3 Octavia is based on the MK7 VW Golf, and that the VRS is based on the Golf GTI/GTD

 

The mk7 Golf GTI had a clever front diff, available as an optional extra. Was this also an option on the VRS? Particularly interested in the diesel.

 

Thanks

It was never an option on the TDI models as far as I known. Pre-facelift 230 TSI and facelift 245 TSI. 

Excellent, thanks.

Is there an easy way to tell which cars have that diff? Or was it standard on the Petrol VRS?

Thanks!

On 21/10/2024 at 22:00, Reeky said:

Excellent, thanks.

Is there an easy way to tell which cars have that diff? Or was it standard on the Petrol VRS?

Thanks!

 

The vRS is basically a GTI/GTD, with an extra 5cm on the wheelbase. 

 

The vRS TDI, rather obviously is the GTD.

 

The vRS 230 is based on the GTI (230ps), so has the 6 speed DSG box, no VAQ diff, 230bhp and smaller rear brakes.

 

The vRS 245 is based on the GTI PP (245ps), and comes with the 7 speed DSG box (DQ381), VAQ limited slip diff, 245bhp and larger 310mm vented rear discs (rather than the smaller 272mm solid).

 

The diff wasn't an option on the TDI (just like AWD wasn't an option on the TSI models). Same with the Golf, the lesser powered facelift model didn't get the diff. The prefacelift were different as there was no 245ps option, AFAIK the VAQ diff was an option on them, usually with the black pack, etc.

 

The best way to tell is just to look at the rear brakes - if vented then it's a 245 with the diff.

 

IMHO you want the 245. The DQ381 is a substantially better box than the DQ250 (I believe that's what the 230 has). It's the same box as the S3, R, Cupra, etc. If your car is FWD, you need a differential for it to be considered a performance car, simple. The power isn't significant really, and the brakes also don't make much difference (both are hefty 340mm vented fronts).

 

Put it this way - I'm 21yo and went with a vRS 245 over a GTI as I could only insure the non-PP GTI reasonably!

Edited 24 October, 20241 yr by BluevRS245

5 minutes ago, BluevRS245 said:

The DQ381 is a substantially better box than the DQ250

Id only consider a manual...

5 minutes ago, BluevRS245 said:

Put it this way - I'm 21yo and went with a vRS 245 over a GTI as I could only insure the non-PP GTI reasonably!

Im also 21, currently got a 250hp-ish Subaru Legacy Spec.b, 6 speed manual, AWD with viscous coupling LSDs in the center and rear. £545 a year, fully comp, no black box. Was only £885 a year fully comp when I was 19!

They do both in a manual - I'd still suggest the 245 is the one to go for if you're intending on doing any spirited driving.

 

Why the change from the Scooby? Aside from the 3.0 not being the cheapest to run and the tech being outdated, I'd suggest it's probably a better drivers car in every measurable way!

The DQ250 6 Speed Wet Clutch DSG is and has proved to be less liable to fault than the DQ381,s.

 

Sadly VW Group / Skoda are still head in the sand over the failure rate around the world. 

 

Re the VAQ Diff.

It is high time that Service Desk staff and Workshop managers and techs were being made aware of the servicing requirements.

Obviously there are trained and qualified ones that know the service regime and tell owners. 

Edited 24 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

4 hours ago, BluevRS245 said:

Why the change from the Scooby?

Well, Im also struggling to find a good enough reason. Other than it being a tad thirsty (high 20s on a long run, low 20s most of the time), and being a tad too low, so it scrapes on many speedbumps, theres absolutely nothing wrong with it. Its also got slightly odd tyre sizes so a set of good tyres is £550, and I went through the last set in under 9000 miles (my fault, not the cars).

Im going to have a longer comute soon, 40 miles each way, and feeding it £150 a week in petrol is a bit silly if I could get a diesel VRS which is still good to drive but uses half the fuel.

I think Ill either just spend the money on petrol, or get a cheap diesel to drive most of the week, and use the scooby a couple of times. If the mk3 diesel VRS hasnt got any clever diffs, I may as well just get an old one thats been mapped for £1500 or so, itll be just as quick. Really it'll depend on what I can insure, not much point in me buying a second car to save money on fuel if the insurance companies are going to demand I spend it all with them instead!

16 hours ago, BluevRS245 said:

The vRS 245 is based on the GTI PP (245ps), and comes with the 7 speed DSG box (DQ381), VAQ limited slip diff, 245bhp and larger 310mm vented rear discs (rather than the smaller 272mm solid).

 

It also comes in a manual with the VAQ diff.

The RS230 pre-FL does have the VAQ-diff

On 24/10/2024 at 16:35, Ootohere said:

The DQ250 6 Speed Wet Clutch DSG is and has proved to be less liable to fault than the DQ381,s.

 

Sadly VW Group / Skoda are still head in the sand over the failure rate around the world. 

 

Re the VAQ Diff.

It is high time that Service Desk staff and Workshop managers and techs were being made aware of the servicing requirements.

Obviously there are trained and qualified ones that know the service regime and tell owners. 

DQ250 is a good box - the issues only really arise when pumping meatier loads of torque through it (but people do upgrade the clutch packs).

 

My dealer serviced the diff, and the sales guy knew exactly what I was on about when I asked about the Haldex/VAQ service intervals. I’m reasonably sure they’re the only ones though, as the service desk at one more local to me looked at me like I was speaking Dutch. 
 

On 25/10/2024 at 08:32, HappySam said:

 

It also comes in a manual with the VAQ diff.

 

They are reasonably rare compared to the DSG boxes but they do exist (several on auto trader at the moment). I personally don’t see the point of a manual Octavia though… if a more connected driving experience is what you’re after, buy a GTI?

 

3 hours ago, Woland said:

The RS230 pre-FL does have the VAQ-diff

 

My mistake - I got confused about powers! FL245 and PFL230 have the diff, FL230 and PFL220 don’t. 

  

6 hours ago, BluevRS245 said:

On 25/10/2024 at 08:32, HappySam said:

 

It also comes in a manual with the VAQ diff.

 

They are reasonably rare compared to the DSG boxes but they do exist (several on auto trader at the moment). I personally don’t see the point of a manual Octavia though… if a more connected driving experience is what you’re after, buy a GTI?

 

I was simply pointing out that the manual also has a VAQ diff. No-one buys any Octavia for "a more connected driving experience".

 

Edited 31 October, 20241 yr by HappySam

1 minute ago, HappySam said:

  

 

I was simply pointing out that the manual also has a VAQ diff. No-one buys any Octavia for "a more connected driving experience". Oh wait, it seems you did... 🤣

 

 

The manual coming with the LSD was never in question.

I never suggested I bought mine for a “connected driving experience”, and wasn’t suggesting that the manual was that either - although it is more engaging. I’d be looking at something more like a 2010 370Z.

 

If I wanted a connected driving experience I wouldn’t buy any VAG car, much less a longer and heavier GTI. Do you not think I test drove a GTI? I drove that, Cupras, a JCW, a 128ti and other things - after all of that, I couldn’t justify the huge price hike, for only a small improvement in driving dynamics and a sacrifice in practicality. The only good “driving experience” I had was in a 2017 Type R, and that was ruled out for being manual and unsuitable for motorway journeys. I also liked a 2018 Megane RS, but the drive wasn’t quite as I expected (having been in several Clio RS’)

 

There’s also a reason why mine had to have adaptive cruise - despite being 21 I don’t drive like a kid, and all I want is something that gets up and goes when my foot goes down on a slip road.

6 hours ago, BluevRS245 said:

I personally don’t see the point of a manual Octavia though… if a more connected driving experience is what you’re after, buy a GTI?

Does a GTI really drive that much differently to a VRS? I suspect any difference will be down to tyres more than anything else.

29 minutes ago, BluevRS245 said:

I’d be looking at something more like a 2010 370Z.

They really arent that great. Too heavy to be a propper sports car, too few cylinders to be a muscle car, and they're utterly impractical given how big they are, you may as well buy an MX5, or a Z4/Boxster/whatever. 

32 minutes ago, BluevRS245 said:

If I wanted a connected driving experience I wouldn’t buy any VAG car

Agreed, I suspect you could extend that to "any german car", but then Ive never driven any of the BMW M-cars or the really fancy Porsches with scaffoling in the back. If youre talking about practical cars that can seat 4 adults and a dog, and perhaps tow a small trailer, then the list of cars that offer a "connected driving experience" dwindles greatly. If a VRS doesnt offer that, then what's the point in buying it over the standard Octavia? Plenty of the similar hot hatches cant even be fitted with a towbar, Im not sure which ones, but Id take a punt at anything with a centeral exhaust (Mini, Civic Type R, some Renaults?) and Im pretty sure that the Hyundai I30 N cant either.

Ive got my Subaru because it does everything. Its getting quite old, and its quite thirsty, so when its due to be replaced, Ill look for something a tad lighter on fuel, but thats about it. I still want its replacement to do everything it can do. I tried an Octavia Scout 2.0TDI, on the basis that I could tweak it to Subaru power levels, but I found the Haldex system so utterly useless that I sold it before doing any modifications at all. Perhaps the newer Haldex systems are better, Ive read no such complaints about the Yaris GR, afterall.

Just for clarification.  A GR Yaris and a Yaris GR are chalk and cheese.  Here maybe the GR Yaris is the one for those who are getting their thrills on the 60 mph NSL hills. 

8 minutes ago, Reeky said:

Does a GTI really drive that much differently to a VRS? I suspect any difference will be down to tyres more than anything else.

They really arent that great. Too heavy to be a propper sports car, too few cylinders to be a muscle car, and they're utterly impractical given how big they are, you may as well buy an MX5, or a Z4/Boxster/whatever. 

Agreed, I suspect you could extend that to "any german car", but then Ive never driven any of the BMW M-cars or the really fancy Porsches with scaffoling in the back. If youre talking about practical cars that can seat 4 adults and a dog, and perhaps tow a small trailer, then the list of cars that offer a "connected driving experience" dwindles greatly. If a VRS doesnt offer that, then what's the point in buying it over the standard Octavia? Plenty of the similar hot hatches cant even be fitted with a towbar, Im not sure which ones, but Id take a punt at anything with a centeral exhaust (Mini, Civic Type R, some Renaults?) and Im pretty sure that the Hyundai I30 N cant either.

Ive got my Subaru because it does everything. Its getting quite old, and its quite thirsty, so when its due to be replaced, Ill look for something a tad lighter on fuel, but thats about it. I still want its replacement to do everything it can do. I tried an Octavia Scout 2.0TDI, on the basis that I could tweak it to Subaru power levels, but I found the Haldex system so utterly useless that I sold it before doing any modifications at all. Perhaps the newer Haldex systems are better, Ive read no such complaints about the Yaris GR, afterall.

I’ve never driven a Clubsport, but the PP GTI felt unbelievably similar (it is the same car after all). I will say that it felt a tiny bit more nimble than the vRS, but that’s most likely down to the slight weight difference, and the salesman being more encouraging!

 
The older 370Z’s interest me for the meaty engine, relative to the insurance for me. I agree that, along with a lot of other cars, the 370Z is a lot slower than you might think.  
 

I’ve not done anything AMG, and whilst M products do drive quite nicely (compared to anything RS anyway) I think you can get better for the price point. I’ve driven/been in a fair few Porsche “drivers cars” (from a Cayman up to a 2018 RS), and whilst they’re amazing, for the price and practicality, I’d expect them to be. They simply aren’t comparable to anything RS/M/etc, as half of them only have two seats and no boot.

 

I’ve enjoyed my vRS. Like, really enjoyed it. I love that, unlike any other car I’ve really driven, it’s a van, a self driving motorway cruiser, a minicab around town, yet put it into sport mode and it comes alive. Maybe not as alive as a Cupra, but then a Cupra won’t cruise to the south of France the same. It’s truly one of the best all rounders I’ve driven. Yes, it’s not as fast, or as spacious, as good looking, as cheap to run or as desirable as XYZ, but it does everything so well…. 
 

The GR Yaris, again, is a completely different beast. I looked at one, until I saw the price.

4 hours ago, BluevRS245 said:

The older 370Z’s interest me for the meaty engine, relative to the insurance for me. I agree that, along with a lot of other cars, the 370Z is a lot slower than you might think.

Ive found that the "hack" for cheap insurance is to go for something a bit left-field, and odly, very rare. My Legacy is £545 a year, fully comp, and Im the same age as you. Granted I live in the arse end of nowhere, but I cant think of anything with 240hp+ that I could insure for even twice that much. Even my 140hp diesel Octavia was over £800 I think, not that I kept it for a full year. 

Ive never tried getting a quote on a 350Z/370Z, partially because I dont really want one, but mostly because I suspect Ill be laughed off the website.

4 hours ago, BluevRS245 said:

I’ve enjoyed my vRS. Like, really enjoyed it. I love that, unlike any other car I’ve really driven, it’s a van, a self driving motorway cruiser, a minicab around town, yet put it into sport mode and it comes alive. Maybe not as alive as a Cupra, but then a Cupra won’t cruise to the south of France the same. It’s truly one of the best all rounders I’ve driven. Yes, it’s not as fast, or as spacious, as good looking, as cheap to run or as desirable as XYZ, but it does everything so well…. 

Yep, exactly what Im finding with my Subaru. I think its a bit more "sporty" than an Octavia, the boot isnt quite as big, the ride isnt as good, it drinks a bit more fuel, etc. But then unlike an Octavia, the seats fold flat, its got a massive sunroof, its makes a fabulous noise, a propper AWD system, and so on. Ohh, and it only cost me 3 grand to buy. The cheapest manual VRS 230 estate on autotrader is the best part of £10000, but for arguments sake lets say Id get it for £9k, exactly 3 times what I paid for my Legacy. 

Interestingly, the quoted 0-60 times are exactly the same, 6.6 seconds, but only one of them will do that in the wet, which living in North Wales, the road is almost always wet. The Skoda is actually quite a bit lighter than my Legacy, almost 200kg infact, thanks mostly to its smaller engine, gearbox, and lack of AWD, I suspect.

Anyway, enough of me rambling on about how marvellous my Subaru is, this is a Skoda forum. 

So forgetting the clever front diff in some of the newer cars, what are the advantages of a VRS over the normal Octavia? As far as I can tell, you get some different bumpers, nicer seats, better colour choices, and a little bit more power. If I had to guess, I suppose Id guess theyre lower than the standard versions? Do they have bigger brakes, faster steering racks, or anything like that?

Thanks!

52 minutes ago, Reeky said:

Ive found that the "hack" for cheap insurance is to go for something a bit left-field, and odly, very rare. My Legacy is £545 a year, fully comp, and Im the same age as you. Granted I live in the arse end of nowhere, but I cant think of anything with 240hp+ that I could insure for even twice that much. Even my 140hp diesel Octavia was over £800 I think, not that I kept it for a full year. 

Ive never tried getting a quote on a 350Z/370Z, partially because I dont really want one, but mostly because I suspect Ill be laughed off the website.

Yep, exactly what Im finding with my Subaru. I think its a bit more "sporty" than an Octavia, the boot isnt quite as big, the ride isnt as good, it drinks a bit more fuel, etc. But then unlike an Octavia, the seats fold flat, its got a massive sunroof, its makes a fabulous noise, a propper AWD system, and so on. Ohh, and it only cost me 3 grand to buy. The cheapest manual VRS 230 estate on autotrader is the best part of £10000, but for arguments sake lets say Id get it for £9k, exactly 3 times what I paid for my Legacy. 

Interestingly, the quoted 0-60 times are exactly the same, 6.6 seconds, but only one of them will do that in the wet, which living in North Wales, the road is almost always wet. The Skoda is actually quite a bit lighter than my Legacy, almost 200kg infact, thanks mostly to its smaller engine, gearbox, and lack of AWD, I suspect.

Anyway, enough of me rambling on about how marvellous my Subaru is, this is a Skoda forum. 

So forgetting the clever front diff in some of the newer cars, what are the advantages of a VRS over the normal Octavia? As far as I can tell, you get some different bumpers, nicer seats, better colour choices, and a little bit more power. If I had to guess, I suppose Id guess theyre lower than the standard versions? Do they have bigger brakes, faster steering racks, or anything like that?

Thanks!

Exterior wise, you get different grilles, bumpers, side skirts (?), spoiler, wheels, mirror colour, diffuser, etc.

 

Interior wise you get some nice bucket seats in the front, alcantara trim with red stitching, flat bottomed steering wheel, some questionable but nice carbon trim, all black headliner and dash (Audi style digi dash if selected), as well as the options of driving mode and a TCS button. You do also get the soundaktor (might not be a good thing in your book), along with some nice interior lighting options. My 2020 also has metal pedals.

 

Engine wise you get the same as Golf GTI/GTD. The Gen3 EA888 is actually very similar to the one used in the S3, Cupra, Golf R etc - only real difference is the ancillary/DSG intercoolers, some internal stuff (head, valves, pressures) and a bigger turbo. Mine is about to get an ECU/TCU tune done, which should take it to around 320bhp.

 

I can’t speak for the manual boxes (MQ250 or 350 I suspect), but the DSG models get the DQ250 in 230 guise (nice enough box) or the very nice DQ381 in the 245 - again, the same box as the GTI/R/S3/Cupra/etc. The manual boxes (and DQ250) will also have longer ratios than the regular boxes.

 

Platform wise, the vRS is a performance Golf. Be it the GTD, GTI230 or GTI PP (245). Same chassis, same bolt holes. Something like an S3 is a tiny bit longer (we’re talking like 5mm) than a A3, and as it’s the same family I would assume the GTI is longer than a Golf, vRS than an Octavia, etc, but wasn’t able to find any info. Some models (my 245 does, not sure about the lesser power ones) get the nice progressive steering fitted to the Mk7 GTI. Some models, as above, also get the brilliant VAQ limited slip diff. All of them, AFAIK, get independent rear suspension. You get lower, stiffer suspension, along with a different exhaust system (that is still silent). The brakes are significantly larger (and redder) - standard Occys might be something like 288/312mm on the front and smaller on the rear, whereas my 245 has 340mm up front and vented 310mm at the back (exact same setup as Golf R, S3, etc). The braking system gets different master cylinder, and copes really well up to 400bhp. I find that the traction control in my car does actually turn “off”, as opposed to just sort of a little bit off, like in my Leon FR. My vRS245 also has launch control.

I really cannot stress enough how amazing the front diff is - slow into a corner, load the power on and it just sticks, and sticks, and sticks… I truly don’t think you can have a quick/fast car without a proper diff. I went to my vRS from a 1.4 Leon FR (the same chassis), and it’s honestly like comparing a 737 to a hang glider. 

 

If you google Golf vs GTI, Octavia vs vRS, A3 vs S3, Leon vs Cupra you’ll get some idea. The more powerful 300ish bhp EA888 has a bigger turbo, and slightly different internals than the lesser 245bhp engines. I’m not sure how the 245 lumps relate to the lesser 230 or “regular” 2.0TSI lumps (physically). Someone on here might know more.  

 

Edited 1 November, 20241 yr by BluevRS245

If there is naff tyres there can be naff traction and this amazing sporty on normal roads that a Nissan Micra can get around corners at safely at 60;mph or quicker.   What a lot of parallel universe roads some drive in the UK.     Most of us learn eventually when driving like they are a rally driver on public roads that there are others doing the same coming in the opposite directions trying out opposite lock, or a Scandinavian flick. 

8 hours ago, BluevRS245 said:

Exterior wise, you get different grilles, bumpers, side skirts (?), spoiler, wheels, mirror colour, diffuser, etc.

 

Interior wise you get some nice bucket seats in the front, alcantara trim with red stitching, flat bottomed steering wheel, some questionable but nice carbon trim, all black headliner and dash (Audi style digi dash if selected), as well as the options of driving mode and a TCS button. You do also get the soundaktor (might not be a good thing in your book), along with some nice interior lighting options. My 2020 also has metal pedals.

 

Engine wise you get the same as Golf GTI/GTD. The Gen3 EA888 is actually very similar to the one used in the S3, Cupra, Golf R etc - only real difference is the ancillary/DSG intercoolers, some internal stuff (head, valves, pressures) and a bigger turbo. Mine is about to get an ECU/TCU tune done, which should take it to around 320bhp.

 

I can’t speak for the manual boxes (MQ250 or 350 I suspect), but the DSG models get the DQ250 in 230 guise (nice enough box) or the very nice DQ381 in the 245 - again, the same box as the GTI/R/S3/Cupra/etc. The manual boxes (and DQ250) will also have longer ratios than the regular boxes.

 

Platform wise, the vRS is a performance Golf. Be it the GTD, GTI230 or GTI PP (245). Same chassis, same bolt holes. Something like an S3 is a tiny bit longer (we’re talking like 5mm) than a A3, and as it’s the same family I would assume the GTI is longer than a Golf, vRS than an Octavia, etc, but wasn’t able to find any info. Some models (my 245 does, not sure about the lesser power ones) get the nice progressive steering fitted to the Mk7 GTI. Some models, as above, also get the brilliant VAQ limited slip diff. All of them, AFAIK, get independent rear suspension. You get lower, stiffer suspension, along with a different exhaust system (that is still silent). The brakes are significantly larger (and redder) - standard Occys might be something like 288/312mm on the front and smaller on the rear, whereas my 245 has 340mm up front and vented 310mm at the back (exact same setup as Golf R, S3, etc). The braking system gets different master cylinder, and copes really well up to 400bhp. I find that the traction control in my car does actually turn “off”, as opposed to just sort of a little bit off, like in my Leon FR. My vRS245 also has launch control.

I really cannot stress enough how amazing the front diff is - slow into a corner, load the power on and it just sticks, and sticks, and sticks…

. I went to my vRS from a 1.4 Leon FR (the same chassis), and it’s honestly like comparing a 737 to a hang glider. 

 

If you google Golf vs GTI, Octavia vs vRS, A3 vs S3, Leon vs Cupra you’ll get some idea. The more powerful 300ish bhp EA888 has a bigger turbo, and slightly different internals than the lesser 245bhp engines. I’m not sure how the 245 lumps relate to the lesser 230 or “regular” 2.0TSI lumps (physically). Someone on here might know more.  

 

Excellent, so it sounds like if youre looking at the diesels, none of which got the VAQ diff, its really just a trim package? Albeit with bigger brakes and shorter, stiffer springs? I really dont have £10k to splash on a car.

8 hours ago, BluevRS245 said:

I truly don’t think you can have a quick/fast car without a proper diff

This is the odd thing, because Subaru do a similar thing, most of them, including mine, just have a normal viscous coupling in the center diff, but some of the STI models have DCCD - driver controlled center diff, and all that is, is a rear torque-bias, open center diff, and the ratio of the torque bias depends on exactly which car youve got, and then theres an electronically contolled clutch which can effectively "lock" the diff. Personally, I dont really see the point, because when the diff "locks", you loose the rear torque bias, and when the diff is open, the fact that its an open diff is more noticable than the torque bias. The normal Subaru setup works so well, and because the chassis is so communicative and the suspension on mine (the spec.b) is so well set up, it doesnt feel as though it needs a rear torque bias. Its got so much grip that you fall out of the seat before itll oversteer or understeer.

4 hours ago, Ootohere said:

If there is naff tyres there can be naff traction

Obviously. What I was refering to was any difference in steering feel between a GTI and a VRS might come down to wheel size and tyre choice, because a stiffer sidewall generally speaking gives more "feel", although not always more grip.

4 hours ago, Ootohere said:

a Nissan Micra can get around corners at safely at 60;mph or quicker.

Depends on the corner. A Nissan Micra cannot corner as quickly as a performance car, and it certainly cant accelerate as quickly. One of my favourite roads has a hill so steep that a Nissan Micra cannot even maintain 60mph going up it.

4 hours ago, Ootohere said:

 What a lot of parallel universe roads some drive in the UK.     Most of us learn eventually when driving like they are a rally driver on public roads that there are others doing the same coming in the opposite directions trying out opposite lock, or a Scandinavian flick. 

Its just a matter of choosing the right time and place. Obviously going past a school at half past 3 on a tuesday afternoon isnt the time to test out your new remap or whatever, but on an empty, twisty, 2 lane road with excellent visibility, that you know reasonably well, is a perfectly acceptable time to have a spirited drive. Being mindful of other road users, including any pedestrians etc, is of course vital. However, with good observational skills, and not being a total plumbsack, its absolutely safe to drive fast sometimes.

Fantastic stuff.  Enjoy the roads.

Oop here they like putting Road Safety Partnership camera vans just were there might eventually be a good straight to get past on.

& on the best of Driving Roads they can put up the drones and give the Officers a nice view way ahead of when they are going to stop the spirited drivers and riders.

 

Ahh the good old days of narrower tyres and less power and being able to go into bends fast and come out of them again with only the occasional dry stone wall or fence demolished or a sheep or wildlife killed, occasionally the person walking home from the pub.

 

If you get a chance to try one of these then do, they are just something else, even at 60 mph into and out of corners as long as not slurry or diesel spill in the blind bend.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 November, 20241 yr by Ootohere

11 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Oop here they like putting Road Safety Partnership camera vans just were there might eventually be a good straight to get past on.

& on the best of Driving Roads they can put up the drones and give the Officers a nice view way ahead of when they are going to stop the spirited drivers and riders.

This angers me greatly, I agree. But there are plenty of roads where this doesnt happen. And even a Micra will get you a ticket on the straight flat bit of road if you put your foot down.

13 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Ahh the good old days of narrower tyres and less power

What was it you said about naff tyres yesterday? Tyre width isnt actually half as much of a big deal as you might think - the narrowest tyre Ive ever encountered was a 155, the same as on a K11 Micra. My Subaru uses 215s, which is only one size bigger than some MX5s, and Audi RS6 uses 285s. The quality of the tyre matters quite a bit more than its width, a Pilot Sport in MX5 size will give you much more grip than an RS6 sized linglong.

Better grip, although it means you cant slide around as easilly, it means you can stop much better. In the world of fast, practical estates, like the Octavia VRS, Subaru Legacy, Audi RS6, whatever it may be, sliding around isnt the point. Even the new BMW M3 touring is AWD, and all the RWD BMWs have had wider rear tyres than the fronts for ages.

22 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

being able to go into bends fast and come out of them again with only the occasional dry stone wall or fence demolished or a sheep or wildlife killed, occasionally the person walking home from the pub

Again, not sure whereabouts you are, but nobody walks back from the pub here, because there arent any pubs and everything is too far to walk. And you dont drive so fast that you crash into stationary objects like walls or fences, thats called being a plumbsack.

@Reeky

No point telling me what i might think about tyres.

Been there, done this or that there, done it wrong sometimes, had, it and tried it.  Managed to live to be older and wiser & still occasionally have fun driving when alone in a car.   Drive with one leg and that was from the early years, i have been in a field or 3 since and upside down in fields and ditches.

Edited 1 November, 20241 yr by Ootohere