Hi

just bought a 1.3 Felicia, 96 N reg, and don't know what to make of the temp gauge reading, and was hoping to get some feedback on what others experience.

My main concern is that the radiator fan is coming on when the temp gauge gets to 110, and although this is apparently normal according to the manual, I'd feel better if if came on a bit earlier.

Upon first start the temp gradually rises to about 100, then I assume the thermostat opens and it goes just below the 90 mark, then back up to slightly above the 90 mark, and then settles at 90, and does so when either motorway driving or even round town as long as I'm moving fairly regularly.

But if I stop for more than a couple of minutes the temp gauge rises steadily to 110 and then the fans come on, bringing the temp down slightly (maybe to 105ish roughly!), and then the cycle will continue, back up slightly to 110 , fans on etc.

Now ...... I thought maybe the rad temp switch could be faulty so changed that, but same thing happening. Next I will change the temp gauge transmitter (the sensor next to the thermostat) and then the thermostat itself (it's a pre-plastic housing Felicia by the way).

What I'm hoping for is some feedback regarding other peoples fan kicking in temp (according to the gauge). I think they are supposed to kick in at around 97/98c so I assume that everyone should see a temp rise when stuck in traffic, as 90 seems to be the normal operating temp, and fans kick in at 98.

It may well be (I'm hoping), that the temp gauge sender is not as linear as it once was, and that small increases above 90 are just reading high. Or could it be a thermostat that's not quite opening fully, and thus the heat in the rad is always cooler than that at the thermostat (actually wouldn't it always be cooler at the fan switch position (bottom of radiator) than at the temp gauge sender?? and if the switch comes on at 98, then the temp gauge at the thermostat will always read higher than 98 when the fans begin to kick in?? )

It could be some sort of blockage I suppose, but it's rock steady at 90c on the motorway and general driving (could be that the much greater cooling of the coolant in the rad from general driving is enough to mean that a small blockage or partially open thermostat is still able to keep the temp at 90)

Anyway, I'd be really grateful if others could tell me the pattern of their temp gauge readings, especially when stick in traffic!!!! And when they hear their fans kick in?

Thanks in anticipation.

And don't say head gasket!!!!

cheers

p.s. just seen a poll thing so might have a go at that too!!

Welcome to Briskoda. How do you know that the temperature gauge is reading correctly?

Hi Denis

I don't!!!! (know the temp gauge is right that is!!)

That's my next thing , well the sensor anyway (if the actual gauge has gone bad, then that's just too much work I think!!)

Just trying to garner others experiences ( I'm puzzling over the thought that came to me as I wrote my first post - the fact that the fan is scheduled to come on at c.98c, but the switch for that is in the rad, which should be at a lower temp than the temp in the engine and at the position of the gauge sensor/sender, thus the reading on the gauge should be higher than 98c when the fans cut in, yes/no????? - logically to me it would appear that way, but I don't know much about cars, only what I've picked up from the various faults I've had over the years - which is too many though!!!)

Any info you have would be appreciated

cheers

the 99 model always 'on the move' reads lower than the 96 non face lift. I put this down to the gaping big hole the radiator sits in.... lots more air circulation.

The 99 seems to kick the fan in a little 'cooler' 100ish. The 96 however runs all day at 70, but when it gets very hot at 110 fan. However once fan has come on at 110, it does seem to erratically go on an off at any temp between 90-110 until you are on the move again. I know this very well as i think the thing that ballances the fan flew off, and when it comes on the car judders about

you might have an air lock in the radiator somwhere!

I thought about that (an airlock), hopefully will go, if there, when I change the thermostat!!! An online parts catalogue for the Felicia (jmbutto or something) list a radiator bleed pipe for the early 1.3 felicia, I don't know what that is, does anybody else??

thanks for replies so far

cheers

thermostat opens at 86 and the fan cuts in at 95 you probably have a faulty temp sensor or gauge because if it wasn't cutting in until 110 real temp the car wuld have overheated by then hope this helps cheers k.

cheers for the reply Big K, 86!!! That's ultra precise from the gauge!! :-)

Seriously, is this from in car experience, i.e. from the gauge temps or from knowledge of when the therm and fan SHOULD cut it??

and I go back to my thought about where the fan switch is and where the temp sensor is, and surely isn't the temp at the fan switch always going to be lower at the fan switch (bottom of the radiator) than at the temp sensor in the thermostat housing??

I think the fan switch should cut in about 97c REAL temp, and if this is the temp at the bottom of the rad, then surely shouldn't the temp reading at the sensor (i.e. just before the thermostat) be higher (if I'm right in thinking that the coolant flows from the bottom of the rad through the engine to the thermostat and then to the top of the radiator?)

Is this correct? Anyone????

<> Isn't 110 still within 'range' for normal?? It's not in the 'red' at 110, and the manual says that if the temp goes into the red then that is overheating.

cheers

We've had our '98 facelift 1.3 MPI from new. According to the gauge the fan doesn't cut in until 110.

As far as I know it's meant to be like that, as the red bit is above 110, and so far it hasn't got there...

This is probably the real temperature, as the system is pressurised it can run above 100 without boiling (Boyles law?).

Engines are more efficient when running hot, so they're designed to for improved economy.

Earlier versions of the 1.3 might have the option of a different thermostatic switch ( see JHM Buttco parts PDF).

The coolant path is hottest out of the top of the engine, via the thermostat, down through the radiator as it is cooled into the bottom of the engine via the pump.

Ancient engines didn't have the pump and relied on syphonic action to circulate the water: hot is less dense and rises, cooler falls. Modern ones use a pump to assist this action.

The switch is on the way out of the radiator (bottom). When the coolant out of the radiator is too hot the fan cuts in to move more air through the radiator to reduce the coolant temperature.

excellent reply, thanks John

good to hear that others' fans cut in at 110 (according to the gauge!!!)

your info regarding the coolant path, would tie in with my belief that the temp at the sensor will always be hotter than the temp at the bottom of the rad, where the fan switch is located, thus if the fan cuts in at real temp of 98c, then the guage should read a bit more than 98c. It makes me think that others' gauges must be wrong if their fans (by the gauge) cut in at 95 (this would mean that the fans were actually cutting in below this - if you are following me!!), maybe 90c, and this obviously isn't the case, as the thermostat only begins to only at 88c and isn't fully open until 102 according to Haynes.

Maybe those whose fans are cutting in at 95 actually have the low temp fan switch installed!!

anyway, thanks again John, and any other replies are really welcome.

cheers

Personally...I would try replacing the thermostat with an original part.

Although mine is the VW engine with the plastic thermostat housing, I replaced with a non-original part (QH) and it opened at a much hotter temperature with the fan not operating until 'just' below the red.

The VW part runs cool at about 1/4 scale and the fan operates at about 3/4...which is much more re-assuring! (My gauge has no specific temperature markings).

I also found that in this case there was very little cost difference in the part so it may be worth trying a thermostat to the same specification as originally fitted.

The times I notice the engine temperature increases the most rapidly is when driving into underground car parks.....obviously they are not quite as well ventilated as the outside world!

I have the same problem with my felicia.

The fan switch kick in when the temperature was more then 100c.

I have rezolve the problem with a direct switch from acumulator to fan.

I put the switch on the bord near light switch.

When the temperature extend 90c i put the switch and the fan start working.

Bye

roby

cheers for the reply Big K, 86!!! That's ultra precise from the gauge!! :-)

Seriously, is this from in car experience, i.e. from the gauge temps or from knowledge of when the therm and fan SHOULD cut it??

No it's from 18 years of working on them!

Personally...I would try replacing the thermostat with an original part.

Although mine is the VW engine with the plastic thermostat housing,

if You have a 1.3 felicia or a 1.4 fabia 8v then it's a skoda engine not a vw one regardless of metal or plastic thermostat housing.

cheers for the reply Big K' date=' 86!!! That's ultra precise from the gauge!! :-)

Seriously, is this from in car experience, i.e. from the gauge temps or from knowledge of when the therm and fan SHOULD cut it??

No it's from 18 years of working on them![/quote']

excellent thanks BigK, you might be best placed to answer my question about what temperature difference there should/might be, between the thermostat (i.e top of the engine) and the fan switch (at the bottom of the radiator).

I assume there will be a difference, even when the car is stationary. Is this the case? And if so, any idea what sort of difference when stationary, and thus shouldn't the temp gauge read higher than the temp the fan switch operates at?

Nobody has managed to answer this, so I hope you might be able to shed some light on my theory.

I look forward to your reply and thanks for your other ones!!

cheers

Ok, I faced similar problems with 1997 Felicia-1.3L " High readings e.g., normal temp 100 C and Max 110 to run the fan". I found out that the wrong tempreture sensor was used for tempreture gauge. The plastic type part worked fine while the metal type sensor did show the higher readings. One more thing, the radiator sensor rated and workes as follows: Low speed fan 90 C, high speed fan 100 C - if running an air conditioning unit"

Hoping that would help

Cheers

i have read here that there seems to be a problem with the plastic thermostat housing. Somebody briefly mentioned a metal housing??? is this from an earlier engine and is it possible to retro fit the metal housing to replace the plastic one??

Mine never once kicked in in three years.

Temperature gauge was (I now realise) faulty (occasionally deigned to rise to a little above 70).

The temperature sensor in the radiator which starts the fan is set to 104 degrees C. And it is according to the workshop quite normal to experience 110 degrees C.

When I bought my first Pickup LXI I was really worried about this and called the workshop for advice. Nothing to be worried about was the answer I got.

i have read here that there seems to be a problem with the plastic thermostat housing. Somebody briefly mentioned a metal housing??? is this from an earlier engine and is it possible to retro fit the metal housing to replace the plastic one??

Yes there was an earlier metal type housing, its fitted to all 136 engined Rapids, favorit carb favorit injection and felicia SPI, It will bolt to the block just fine but I no longer have a MPI felicia here to check that it has the right number of take off pipes the metal one has one large pipe that goes to the rad directly and one small one that goes to the expansion tank. The metal one is obviously very durable and reuseable, and should be cheap as chips in a scrapyard, but it can suffer from a problem where the bolts thatjoin the two halves snap off when attempting to undo, its very easily remidied by drilling and retapping, but I suspect thats why the change was made. Personally I prefer the metal parts.

here are my comments about overheating (OH), cooling system (CS), cooling fan (CF) and temp. gauge (TG):

I will start with a definition: OH is a very dangerous engine condition easily observable on the TG and ranging from a minimum (the CF is kicking in more often than usual) up to the OH light coming on or worse.

NOTE: the term usual is very relative, but I believe a normal cycle of the CF in terms of time is roughly: 5 minutes/1 minute/15 seconds at idle and stationary, meaning the CF will kick in first time after engine start in 5 minutes for 15 seconds, then will kick in again after 1 minute for 15 seconds and so on.

OH can occur if:

a) the CS is not working properly

b ) the CS capacity is exceeded

everybody seems to focus only on recommendations/solutions for case a), although many times there is a b ) issue.

case a) situation can happen from various reasons, such as: outside leaks, bad cooling fluid, grime/slime/scales/debris/deposits or foreign objects inside CS, radiator obstructions, pocket of air (bad bleeding), bad thermostat, bad CF, bad CF switch, cooling pump blades broken or sliding, etc.

case b ) situation occurs due to an extra stress on the CS, such as: a bad head gasket (inside leaks), low oil pressure, bad engine oil, loose belt, extreme weather conditions, overweight, too much toed weight, A/C fitted on a too small radiator, lean mixture, bad exhaust timing clearance, exhaust obstructions, insane way of driving, etc

solving any of the above issues is a matter of looking in a Service Manual or on this forum and doing accordingly.

I will address now the other questions raised in this topic by brief observations.

- the TG sensor has a very poor precision (some 10% I believe) especially if they are OEM

- yes, the temperature the CF kicks in is smaller than one indicated by the TG. that is because the CF switch is located in the cooler side of the CS for good reason, while the TG sensor 'boils' in the upper, hotter side (see attached).

- an easy way to 'read' the CS is by using a digital infrared temperature gun on all parts of the system

- don't throw parts at car, but gather evidence (realfixesrealfast)

Edited 2 April, 201214 yr by masster

hi there my 1.3 99 facelift engine fan cut in at 100 but i fitted a switch off the fan switch inside car found best switch was a side light one and used to put fan on in traffic and when she got hot

now have the Slxi 1.6 coversion and because its got air con the fan cuts in just over half way found it to have a lower thomostat opening temp and lower temp fan switch

other bonus is when you use air con the fan comes on too