It may sound like a silly question but, following a particularly heated conversation on Usenet, it was suggested that the term "Automatic" is exclusively used by those in the know - specifically "Automotive Engineers" - to mean a conventional torque convertor gearbox and that the DSG is actually an "automated manual".

I disagree with this - quacks like a duck, etc.

Do any of the residents on here - proper "Automotive Engineers" prefered - know the definitive answer?

TIA

Steve.

I saw that as well , and the normal definition that I'd expect most people would understand and agree with is that an automatic gear box is simply one where you don't have to change gears yourself.

If a DSG gearbox can do this then I don't see why it shouldn't be considered to have an automatic mode as well as it's manual one.

A lot of ordinary car drivers with autoboxes probably wouldn't know what a torque converter is anyway , and don't care exactly what sort of technology is involved

Same question for the audi multitronic box.

I'm no tech but to me an automatic is anything where you don't need a clutch and don't need to move a gear stick in normal driving.

You might want a hair-split name for a box where though you don't have a clutch you can move between gears with a lever, but then again you can do that with a conventional auto box anyway.

A lot of ordinary car drivers with autoboxes probably wouldn't know what a torque converter is anyway

I do..........and my trains also got a Fluid Flywheel...

I do..........and my trains also got a Fluid Flywheel...

But gets stuck by a few leaves :P

But gets stuck by a few leaves :P

Or two feet of water on the line as seen near Birmingham today

It's a "robotisted manual"

It is not a "slush box" with viscous couplings, it has clutch plates.

In fact it probably deserves its own category as it has two separate banks of gears with two sets of simultaneously actuated clutch plates.

Both its speed of action and efficiency (generally better than the manual) mark it out from the usual slow witted and power sapping (read thirstly as well) autos.

However, as defined purely by its intended function and abilities, it is an AUTOMATIC (in the sense it is definitely not a MANUAL)

It's a "robotisted manual"

It is not a "slush box" with viscous couplings, it has clutch plates.

In fact it probably deserves its own category as it has two separate banks of gears with two sets of simultaneously actuated clutch plates.

Both its speed of action and efficiency (generally better than the manual) mark it out from the usual slow witted and power sapping (read thirstly as well) autos.

However, as defined purely by its intended function and abilities, it is an AUTOMATIC (in the sense it is definitely not a MANUAL)

I think the suggestion was that true "Automotive Engineers" look down on us mere mortals and scoff at our ignorance.

Quick question, if you have an automatic only uk drviing licence, can you drive a DSG?

Is the restriction based entirely on the car having a user operated clutch?

TIA,

Automatic only driver can drive the DSG. It has two pedals end of.

Although technically its very similar to the regular six speed gearbox using a multishaft arangement. Both shafts have thier own clutch and the drive swithes from one to the other.

Although technically its very similar to the regular six speed gearbox using a multishaft arangement. Both shafts have thier own clutch and the drive swithes from one to the other.

I am not sure how it is "very similar" given it is automatic, has dual shafts (rather than one), has its own ECU and oil specification and has different gear ratios and final drive :confused:

I do..........and my trains also got a Fluid Flywheel...

REALLY!!?? Mine have only got 12v dc motors and 36:1 idler gearboxes!!

I'm fairly sure having stripped a few that the internal layout is very much based on the 02M gearbox in how the shafts are layed out. Very clever how gears 1,3,5 run on an outer sleeve of the central shaft and 2,4,6 run on the inner and the clutch pack just switches between the two.

The mechatronic unit on the front just duplicates the movement of the selectors but using magnetic solenoids controlled by the ECU. And yes it does use its own oil, around 7 litres from dry Filter and oil should be changed every 40k.

I am still not sure that sharing an outer case constitutes "very similar"

Well this is a DSG, what does a 6-speed manual 'box look like?

The 02M box uses a 'similar' multi shaft layout. Not all that clear in the diagram but when you lift the lid off the DSG box you can see where they got the idea from and how its been adapted. Its a shame we dont strip them in the dealer network they just get sent back if its anything more complicated than a mechatronic unit or a clutch.

The 02M gearbox is very clever in how it uses space inside the casing making the shafts and gears as strong as possible and compared to the 02J/R gear boxes the selector mechnisms are alot stronger.