Not sure how you got massive torque steer in the cars mentioned as they dont have much torque!

Put an XUDT in those cars and you could get plenty of torque steer.

ASR/ESP has almost killed me on a wet road, when it rather abruptly dropped all power to correct some understeer that i was correcting. This caused rather nice oversteer while i was doing things to correct understeer... Great. Sure I caused the initial understeer by putting down the power too hard and too early out of a corner, but I was also correcting it.

ASR as fitted to the Skoda range is very very different to the ESP fitted to higher powered cars.

The ESP fitted to the 350Z was phemoninal, you really could drive with a fool and it would do everything physically possible to keep you going in the right direction.

I take it most peoples experiance on this site is the ESP in the small city car Fabia vRS! You cannot assume that the cheapest model in the Skoda line up has the best equipment & the fabia is 7 years old now so your looking at an ESP system which cannot be fairly compared to the latest technology.

Anyone on here who has kids in their car would you turn off your ESP? If no then why do you do it with them not in the car - you could hit a car carrying kids going iun the other direction.

Yes, I'd turn off ESP without a quibble. One of my cars doesn't even have ESP or traction control, and I've carried my daughter in that her entire life without having any mishaps.

How this has happened...one of life's mysteries, eh?

Rob.

I take it most peoples experiance on this site is the ESP in the small city car Fabia vRS! You cannot assume that the cheapest model in the Skoda line up has the best equipment & the fabia is 7 years old now so your looking at an ESP system which cannot be fairly compared to the latest technology.

During your years of training to become an accountant, did you not consider some English lessons would sit nicely alongside your bean counting skills?

There are a couple of keys between the "M" and Shift key that you may find useful.

During your years of training to become an accountant, did you not consider some English lessons would sit nicely alongside your bean counting skills?

There are a couple of keys between the "M" and Shift key that you may find useful.

lol - why doesnt word word on here!!!

I take it most peoples experiance on this site is the ESP in the small city car Fabia vRS! You cannot assume that the cheapest model in the Skoda line up has the best equipment & the fabia is 7 years old now so your looking at an ESP system which cannot be fairly compared to the latest technology.

I've driven a few "premium" cars with ESP but with the owner sat next to me, I wasn't going to risk bending it. The one that surprised me most was the Golf MkV with it on. ESP in that was pretty brutal at sorting the car out and also allowed a surprising amount of slip before it woke up and did anything. I'm not sure how you rate the Golf one compared to the Fabia ... they may well be the same for all I know

My poxy Mondeo doesn't have ESP so I can't comment on Ford's offerings....

Chris

lol - why doesnt word word on here!!!

Over-reliance on electronic aids (see, it is on topic...well, sort of!)...

Rob.

At the end of the day, ESP cant' make up for poor chassis design or lack of driver skill.

The ASR cars are an Octy and Octy II.

The ESP cars are an Octy II VRS, a Golf GT TDI, a BMW 120d (called DSC don't you know), a honda civic.

They are all IMHO too brutal, although I will admit the ESP is less so than the ASR.

At the end of the day, ESP cant' make up for poor chassis design or lack of driver skill.

But on the QUeens highway your never going to reach speeds which will highlight those flaws as the speed is above legal limits and sensible driving speed for the road conditions.

But on the QUeens highway your never going to reach speeds which will highlight those flaws as the speed is above legal limits and sensible driving speed for the road conditions.

Ummmmmm - so ESP is a good thing, why?!

Chris

But on the QUeens highway your never going to reach speeds which will highlight those flaws as the speed is above legal limits and sensible driving speed for the road conditions.

Depends on the car - smarts have stability and yaw control, yet it's quite easy to spin one well below the speed limit...

Rob.

But on the QUeens highway your never going to reach speeds which will highlight those flaws as the speed is above legal limits and sensible driving speed for the road conditions.

205 1.9 GTI, perfectly capable of going backwards at a moments notice well below NSL if you lifted off the gas at the wrong time mid corner.

ESP wouldn't have stopped that. ESP is an aid, it is a piece of software designed around certain parameters. If you go outside of these then it will not function as designed. A lack of grip will mean ESP won't work and snow/standing water cause a lack of grip causing the car to behave unpredictably.

A lack of grip will mean ESP won't work and snow/standing water cause a lack of grip causing the car to behave unpredictably.

And once it kicks in, you'll have no idea what the ESP is actually doing - so in addition to trying to regain grip and control, you have to second guess what ESP is trying to do to the car so that you don't over/undercompensate.

Rob.

And once it kicks in, you'll have no idea what the ESP is actually doing - so in addition to trying to regain grip and control, you have to second guess what ESP is trying to do to the car so that you don't over/undercompensate.

Rob.

Which is what I was sayiong about the ASR cutting all power to stop understeer that I was already correcting, and resulting in oversteer which i then had to very quickly react to or I could have ended up somewhere off the road.

It is a useful tool, however people should not depend on it, and there should always be the option to turn if "off". I say "off" because most cars today the off position is just a "i won't cut in until the very last moment I cna possibly save it" option rather than a true off.

One of the reasons I chose to sell my Octy 2 vrs, was the ESP. As a safety aid, it was very good. For getting around large wet roundabouts much quicker than normal, it was a laugh....... when it was turned off so I could have some fun - it still prevented the rear from losing grip, and it ate 7 sets of pads in 30k, on the rear that is. So I agree with alot of the arguements in here. It IS a saftey aid, it does mask poor driving ability, and it is a hinderence to making quicker progress on your favourite Nurburgring. It does all of those things very well too.

Imagine my horror as I dropped into the carousel, esp off, and the car almost ground to a halt. There was a way round it, but it meant no ABS and a well lit dash too.

Welshy - The Octavia vRS2 is fitted with ESP 2 which is the very latest development of esp.

Asr is dangerous on the Fabia, that goes off before I even pop my belt on. It simply cuts power...which in some circumstances may cause you to be in the path of something you were wishing to avoid, or it could unsettle the car's balance, and in the worst case cause a spin.

IMHO FWD cars need none of these gadgets, as you know where the limits of the car are well before you reach them.

Even ESP wont save you if you are going too fast into a corner. It can't defy gravity.

As for the snow debate, what Chris is getting at is you would turn your traction aids off to retain better control at lower speeds. I cant imagine anyone would be stupid enough to drive as fast in the shown conditions (Tiff - X type) on a public highway anyhow.

But on the QUeens highway your never going to reach speeds which will highlight those flaws as the speed is above legal limits and sensible driving speed for the road conditions.

But a bad driver could make an error by taking a roundabout at 50mph, get half way around and lift off. This is the sort of error that ESP can help prevent becoming an accident.

The speed has been reached that has exposed the driver's ability (or lack of).

With the 350Z (and to a lesser extent, the RX8) it is possible for ESP2 to put a smile on your face. Nailing the throttle on the exit to a bend or roundabout safe in the knowledge that if you've been a bit too keen you're fairly likely to stay safe.

But where is the joy in that? :confused:

I prefer to control my car rather than the other way round - as I see it it is the car manufacturers interfering with natural selection

But where is the joy in that? :confused:

I prefer to control my car rather than the other way round - as I see it it is the car manufacturers interfering with natural selection

So what you are saying is that ASR should really stand for `Active Selection Routine`?

Natural selection would be an excellent way of clearing congestion, removing "undesirables" from society and improving the standard of driving on the roads!

Chris

Shouldn't mess with nature :grumpy:

Shouldn't mess with nature :grumpy:

Ewe know it makes sense :eek:

To Jump in again here my esprit has close on 400 BHP and absolutley shed loads of torque. However the lovely chaps at Lotus never even considered putting any sort of esp on it. On all but the Sport 350 they limit the boost in initial gears via the ecu but that is all. My car had a factory upgrade to S350 spec and I have and am continuing to tweak the performance.

The car does demand respect whenever I drive it. The steering is sharp and the handling is typical Lotus. The beauty is you can feel everything the car is doing. You know if the wheels are spinning and placing it on the line you want is sublime. It isn't as sharp as an Elise but it does weigh a bit more.

To me the lack of ESP etc makes the car wonderful to drive. You have to concentrate all the time as it is more than capable of biting you if you get lax. This I feel is the point of not having ESP, It makes you focus and concentrate especilly in a fast car (whatever it may be) and even more so in the wet (the Esprit can be dangerous in the wet).

It is the people who think there limits are better than the car that cause the problems and the electronics only promote this to them. If the car broke away sooner then they would likely be going alot slower.

Other than ABS I personally hate driving aids that detrac from the skill of handling the car.

Just my 2p on this one.

And I agree that 5th gear is naff but I'll probably still watch it anyway lol.

Cheers

ASR = absolute f*cking waste of time, should stand for Absolutely Should Remove

ESP on the Fabia vRS was good, and I liked it.

You *have* to trust the ESP to do it's thing and NOT try to compensate (at all) with the steering, just keep foot on brake or accelerator and point where you WANT to go. With it off, do what you should do..

Can be interesting