If bugatti didnt want people to turn off the traction control they shouldn't have put a button in it to turn it off on the other hand they have hidden the button to deter people turning it off so why did Tiff tell everyone where it is?

It is a car that deserves alot of respect when driven and driver aids are put there for a reason.

Maybe that's why we have choice, or at least given..

How many people who watch that show will ever have the chance to see one in the flesh let alone drive one.

Me

Ok, it was at the motorshow so probably doesnt count :P

I know what you are all saying about being able to turn off the ESP for driving in the snow and for masking your mistakes when driving, making you think you are a better driver than you really are. I know if I didn't have it on my old VRS I would have probably written it off through my own stupidity and lack of driving skill.

I'm not just against Tiff on this but even Top Gear and other TV/Magazines that all show drifting, donut's etc etc etc. This kind of driving does rub off on the wrong kind of person and will cause accidents on the road and in some case's may involve inocent people.

Just my Opinion

Well, one less in the UK - BBC NEWS | In Pictures | In pictures: Bugatti Veyron crash

That leaves 3 currently delivered, with 20 out of the 300 sold to UK buyers IIRC

Oh dear, how sick would you feel??!!

Why all the fuss over hiding the ESP switch? The Switch for the ESP in a 350Z is in pretty much the same place as it is on the Veyron and it is clearly documented on the owners' manual.

I suspect the thinking behind the switch placment on both cars was to prevent passengers who think it'd be "funny" from pressing the button.

I know if I didn't have it on my old VRS I would have probably written it off through my own stupidity and lack of driving skill.

This kind of driving does rub off on the wrong kind of person and will cause accidents on the road and in some case's may involve inocent people.

Is that not a tad hypocritical? :confused:

Chris

I'm just saying I have got carried away as I am sure most people have at some stage in their life and the ESP has had to kick in to stop you losing complete control of the car. If I had it turned the ESP off the wheels would have lost traction and I would have slid accross the road.

ESP works and should not be negotiable wether you have it turned on or off.

Only my opinion

ESP works and should not be negotiable wether you have it turned on or off.

And it's this attitude that annoys me. Rather than looking at what YOU did wrong, the attitude is that ESP will save me and you will get in the same situation again. How do you cope driving a performance car without traction control?!

Chris

I know where I went wrong. I as driving to fast for the road conditions, my own stupidity. I have learned from it and have learned to read the road conditions better. For the vast amount of people who like nice/fast/fun cars but don't go on track days or advanced driving courses ESP can help protect themselfs and pedestrians around them.

I no longer have my VRS but I do drive my wife's fabia vrs and have just had my octi remapped, I have changed my driving style and find driving within the speed limits and conditions of the road I dont get the ESP light on at all, so why would I need to be able to turn it off? Turning it off to drive in the snow didn't make any difference and no i wasn't just sat there spinning the wheels.

Everyone makes mistakes and the inocent Pedestrian/car/motorbike/cyclist shouldn't be penalised for the car drivers mistake and with the evergrowing number of distractions in the car, drivers are not concentrating on the roads as much as they should

I agree that ESP could make people think they are better drivers than they really are and moving from a car with it to one without it could result in disaster as you dont know how to correct the car from you mistake you make.

drivers are not concentrating on the roads as much as they should

Chicken and egg - drivers are paying less attention because they have electronic aids like ESP. As a result, they need more safety aids to compensate for their inattention.

Safety aids all have their limitations - ESP can't deny the laws of physics, if there's no grip available then you're going to slide whether the ESP kicks in or not.

Rob.

'Chicken and egg - drivers are paying less attention because they have electronic aids like ESP' I was meaning things like in-car DVD/TV which we all know cannot be viewed while driving, Sat Nav, changing tapes & cd's, Kids. The amount of people I see eating/drinking while driving. This is all careless and takes people's attention away from the road and what is going on around them.

in-car DVD/TV which we all know cannot be viewed while driving, Sat Nav, changing tapes & cd's, Kids. The amount of people I see eating/drinking while driving. This is all careless and takes people's attention away from the road and what is going on around them.

...and they can get away with this inattention because they have electronic aids like ESP as a safety net. If they didn't have the safety net, they would have to concentrate fully on driving.

Rob.

Driving on motorways and pottering aound I leave the ESP on. If I intend to drive quicker I turn it off

Why?

ESP is an interfering nuisance. If you are intending to actually "drive" the car I think you are better off without it as it can actually get in the way. It removes the adjustability of the car, lulls you in to a state of "I can't crash ESP will save me" whereas it could actually cause a crash.

I see these heroes turn it off every time they get in the car, it's like a badge of honour. Strange how most will turn it on when they decide to go for it to save them from what they know are their low talent levels.

So, why keep t on in daily driving? Well, as has been mentioned, there ar lots of distractions in modern cars - CD, DVD, 'phone etc Most of the time a lot of us dive on auto pilot if it's a route we do regularly ie the commute to work, the trip to Tescos.

As for was he right to tell people where it was? Why not? How many of you are going to drive one? How manypeople watching ar going to drive one? Not many would be my guess. As an owner, I reckon they'd tell you where it was. They'd probably also recommend you leave it well alon - much as Merc do with all their cars when you collect them from the factory. And be honest, how many of you would have the balls to turn off the ESP in a Veyron? I sure a hell wouldn't even contemplate it!

you all have your opinions and I have mine... I think it's fair that we agree to differ or this could go on for a long time.

same ole tacky 5th gear as usual but I shall be watching it again next week

Didnt 5th gear do a feature about ESP in the snow 80mph and then swerve with ESP he controlled it without he span out.

Ive not driven a car with ESP in the snow - if you have please explain how Tiff was able to drive that mondy up to 80mph and then swerve round an obsticle?

'Didnt 5th gear do a feature about ESP in the snow 80mph and then swerve with ESP he controlled it without he span out.

Ive not driven a car with ESP in the snow - if you have please explain how Tiff was able to drive that mondy up to 80mph and then swerve round an obsticle?'

i thought this was done with an x-type?

'Didnt 5th gear do a feature about ESP in the snow 80mph and then swerve with ESP he controlled it without he span out.

Ive not driven a car with ESP in the snow - if you have please explain how Tiff was able to drive that mondy up to 80mph and then swerve round an obsticle?'

i thought this was done with an x-type?

I cannot remember for sure but it was a FWD saloon - could have been the x type.

i thought this was done with an x-type?

And it was Jeremiah Klaxon :(

it was an x-type

YouTube - Top Gear - Fifth Gear - Bosch ESP

just watching it now

Ive not driven a car with ESP in the snow - if you have please explain how Tiff was able to drive that mondy up to 80mph and then swerve round an obsticle?

Because his inputs with ESP off are very aggressive which is obviously going to unsettle the car. Maybe he should sign up to this course....

I notice on the UCR, Penny Mallory also proved ESP was better in the dry by using similarly bad driving!

Chris

I'm just saying I have got carried away as I am sure most people have at some stage in their life and the ESP has had to kick in to stop you losing complete control of the car. If I had it turned the ESP off the wheels would have lost traction and I would have slid across the road.

ESP works and should not be negotiable wether you have it turned on or off.

Only my opinion

ASR/ESP has almost killed me on a wet road, when it rather abruptly dropped all power to correct some understeer that i was correcting. This caused rather nice oversteer while i was doing things to correct understeer... Great. Sure I caused the initial understeer by putting down the power too hard and too early out of a corner, but I was also correcting it.

You should be able to turn it off IMHO.

If a car is designed properly then by the time it breaks traction you are probably stuffed anyway.

My old BX and 306 never had traction control and I didn't go throw them off the road either. I did some pretty stupid driving in both, massive torque steer moments etc, it just taught me how to learn that a car was near the limit and how to try and deal with it or even better not cause it.

Logically, if you let a computer drive the car for you, then you might as well take the driver right out of the equation.

his actions were very aggresive without the ESP on.. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if he had been as aggresive with the ESP on or vice versa being very smooth without the ESP on.

I think anyone who turns off their ESP on the highway is very naive.

If on a racing track yes turn it off but on the highway your never going to approach cornering speeds which could cause loss of control unless your driving too fast.

I mean 60mph these days in any modern car you can take nearly any corner at those speeds excl hairpins. So why not do it in even more safety?

Anyone on here who has kids in their car would you turn off your ESP? If no then why do you do it with them not in the car - you could hit a car carrying kids going iun the other direction.

THINK>

ASR/ESP has almost killed me on a wet road, when it rather abruptly dropped all power to correct some understeer that i was correcting. This caused rather nice oversteer while i was doing things to correct understeer... Great.

You should be able to turn it off IMHO.

If a car is designed properly then by the time it breaks traction you are probably stuffed anyway.

My old BX and 306 never had traction control and I didn't go throw them off the road either. I did some pretty stupid driving in both, massive torque steer moments etc, it just taught me how to learn that a car was near the limit and how to try and deal with it or even better not cause it.

Logically, if you let a computer drive the car for you, then you might as well take the driver right out of the equation.

Not sure how you got massive torque steer in the cars mentioned as they dont have much torque!

Not sure how you got massive torque steer in the cars mentioned as they dont have much torque!

You dont have to have all that much torque to give torque steer though.