your point about using better quality parts, er, how can that be?? the best IS the manufacter parts. so unless hes using non skoda parts which isnt a very good idea really. then how can that be a factor? the only parts i would use are proper skoda parts. unless i was uprating my car and use other quality components such as springs, suspension parts and exhausts but a pattern part wouldnt make it on to my car!

Yes they use better than OEM parts - I'm pretty sure that Skoda don't use the best parts available or there would be no aftermarket branded alternatives! Also decent quality oil, brake fluid, etc.

and your other point, what shiney showroom? that is the SALES dept, nothing to do with the SERVICE DEPT the 2 depts are seperate. the only reason you may find a service reception in a sales area is to save money, and so they can both use the same wating area, coffe machine etc. most smaller garages i use dont even have a courtesy car either. nor a courtesy bus to come and get them from town, or a way of collecting your car from home, or even picking you up from work.

Thanks for pointing out the difference between sales and service departments - that was something that's been confusing me for a while now Funnily enough, the people who manage the dealerships finances don't distinguish between sales and service - it is simply income and outgoings. Many small independent places also sell cars. If most of the smaller garages you use don't have courtesy cars or buses, then perhaps you should look elsewhere and not tar all small garages with the same brush

end of the day their may be a higher labour charge, but that also goes to train and develop the techicans, and give them regualar updates on all the skoda engines, parts and fixes. but then if you cant understand what you are paying for (or if your dealer dosent give you your moneys worth) just go elsewhere, but dont tarnish dealer services depts witht he same brush

My posts are based on my own personal experiences of main dealer servicing. I don't recall tarring all main dealers with the same brush, but suffice to say I have a fair amount of experience dealing with various brands and various dealers. At the end of the day, based on this, I have decided that I get better value from independent specialists and judging by this thread, it would seem I'm not alone.

Chris

Yes they use better than OEM parts - I'm pretty sure that Skoda don't use the best parts available or there would be no aftermarket branded alternatives! Also decent quality oil, brake fluid, etc.

better than oem? why spend thousands developing oils with shell just so they can be beaten? sorry i just dont agree, as i said there are other parts that i would consider using if i were to uprate components. but from what ive experianced with my own cars over the years is that by using non gen parts normally ends up costing you more in the long term.

Thanks for pointing out the difference between sales and service departments - that was something that's been confusing me for a while now Funnily enough, the people who manage the dealerships finances don't distinguish between sales and service - it is simply income and outgoings. Many small independent places also sell cars. If most of the smaller garages you use don't have courtesy cars or buses, then perhaps you should look elsewhere and not tar all small garages with the same brush

where was i tarnishing small garages? i openly said i do use them and that ive had issues with main dealers. im simply anoyed with people not understanding what you get by going to main dealers. and sorry but your wrong, you dont pay for flashy sales rooms when you go to service depts. you pay from them when buying new cars!

My posts are based on my own personal experiences of main dealer servicing. I don't recall tarring all main dealers with the same brush, but suffice to say I have a fair amount of experience dealing with various brands and various dealers. At the end of the day, based on this, I have decided that I get better value from independent specialists and judging by this thread, it would seem I'm not alone.

Chris

and there are also people whove not had issues with the dealers. its a 2 way street with no correct answers. i can only give insight to the dealerships ive worked at, and the garages ive used over the years. if i find a good garage i'll pay what they want to make sure i get good service. be that at a main dealer or elsewhere.

and there are also people whove not had issues with the dealers. its a 2 way street with no correct answers. i can only give insight to the dealerships ive worked at, and the garages ive used over the years. if i find a good garage i'll pay what they want to make sure i get good service. be that at a main dealer or elsewhere.

Thankyou, fully agreed with you, I to am not putting down small garages, and for my friend's with 10 year old cars i always reccomend a very good small workshop for them to take their cars to as i wouldn't expect them to perhaps see main dealers as a cambelt change would = value of car.

All I am trying to do is put a point of view across from side of fence as main dealer as we are giving a really bad name without just cause maybe because some dealers are carp. and they bring down the entire name.

I actually think that the £99 mot/srvice deal at VW dealership is TOO cheap my point being if the sums do not add up are corners being cut. Or will additional work be "needed" to pass the MOT to make up for a shortfall in the cheap original offer ? An experience I had a couple of years ago at Nationwide Autocentre.

Thankyou, fully agreed with you, I to am not putting down small garages, and for my friend's with 10 year old cars i always reccomend a very good small workshop for them to take their cars to as i wouldn't expect them to perhaps see main dealers as a cambelt change would = value of car.

All I am trying to do is put a point of view across from side of fence as main dealer as we are giving a really bad name without just cause maybe because some dealers are carp. and they bring down the entire name.

exactly mate

Well, my car has a big power problem. It's still under warranty and has had the problem since I bought it new in 2005. It has been to... 5, yes 5 different dealers to be sorted. Every time I get 'There are no fault codes, so there isn't anything wrong Sir.' How ridiculous! I agree withother people that the techs seem to be just 'fitters' and seem to be scared when the problem is obviously more deep-rooted and mechanical. The lack of knowledge sometimes is astounding- I had to explain the boost log printout from my car to the tech the other day...

I have finally had some progress this week with a different dealership, but I suspect that's only because a couple of fault codes finally emerged. I will be very interested to see what happens next, especially if the car is still down on power after the faults are rectified.

As soon as the car is out of warranty it will go to my local VAG specialist who has looked after me and my Corrados very well, and actually gives a damn!

I actually think that the £99 mot/srvice deal at VW dealership is TOO cheap my point being if the sums do not add up are corners being cut. Or will additional work be "needed" to pass the MOT to make up for a shortfall in the cheap original offer ? An experience I had a couple of years ago at Nationwide Autocentre.

ahh sorry thought you were saying 99 quid was too much!

i think that service is a "loss leader" type affair. with allot of people they dont have the knowledge or want to check their cars over. so when they do go in for a service and mot, it undoubtably throws up a few things they can add on to fix for the customer. the way round it is to look after your car and simply use the service to get your car mot'd and serviced without the hassle of doing it yourself.

i also had a problem with a garage like nationwide, where i knew damn well my car was 100 percent fine to pass the mot. they pulled it up sayin i'd need brake lines front to back as they had corroded. i asked to see and they said sorry we cant let you under the ramps for H and S reasons. so i told him i'll take the car and check it over myself. they even tried to say it was dangerous and they werent happy with it going in the state it was in!

i got out of there and got my local chap to have a look and take it too his normal mot place. passed with flying colours. as i knew it would. but if you get a garage trying to do stuff which doesnt need to be done, its time to stop using them and move on.

WS, I largely agree wish what Chris said in post #35; basically there is a cross-subsidy going on between departments. If there wasn't, why haven't any of the big PLC chains sued the likes of Autocar for saying there was?

Equally, how do you know how well I know the small garages I use? I didn't say that the owner necessarily worked on my car (but I know he has done so in more than one case). With one exception, I also know that, even if he hasn't worked on my car, he's at least been in the workshop, in overalls, and with "car muck" on his hands.

Finally, I'm not interested in "how many OEM courses the workshop staff have been on?" All the manufacturer's diagnostic computers are, are tools! Without the basic competence to know what the diagnostics screen actually means, they're about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Fially, all the foregoing means is that I don't like incompetent service (particularly overpriced incompetent service); check my comments on Queensborough/Henry's North in the reviews section!

WS, I largely agree wish what Chris said in post #35; basically there is a cross-subsidy going on between departments. If there wasn't, why haven't any of the big PLC chains sued the likes of Autocar for saying there was?

the exact same reason hardly any of the newspapers get sued. does anyone really care what autocar say? some mags slate certain cars, does that mean they get sued? no. i can only truely say what happens here, and that our sales dept is at the opposite end of the building and we dont even share the same alarm system as they do!

Finally, I'm not interested in "how many OEM courses the workshop staff have been on?" All the manufacturer's diagnostic computers are, are tools! Without the basic competence to know what the diagnostics screen actually means, they're about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

and what about the courses and info they have on help in finding faults quickly and efficently, in effect saving labour time? or saving money of replacing the wrong parts? most of the guys i speak to here know the skoda range inside and out and that helps when fixing things or knowing which order to take things off.

Fially, all the foregoing means is that I don't like incompetent service (particularly overpriced incompetent service); check my comments on Queensborough/Henry's North in the reviews section!

who does like incompetent service? i certainly wouldnt stand for it! if i knew a certain tech wasnt upto scratch he wouldnt get any work from my sold cars thats for sure! but for my own car if i was given sub standard service i wouldnt be gracing their service bay again either.

you should expect to receive what you pay for. go cheap enough and its gonna end in tears, no matter what your talking about.

go cheap enough and its gonna end in tears, no matter what your talking about.

It's not about cost, it's about value for money. 2 very different things. No tears so far

Chris

...you should expect to receive what you pay for. go cheap enough and its gonna end in tears, no matter what your talking about.

I think you misunderstand what's being said, people here, certainly me, would definately not go to the cheapest place to have their car serviced. As Chris says, we will take it to the place that gives best value for money which 9 times out of 10 is a specialist independant.

They deal with VAG cars everyday and are VAG trained so you're pretty much safe in the knowledge that they know what they're doing with your car yet it costs a significant amount less than taking it to a dealer. (an average of £230 for a 40k service and cambelt in my case)

All we're saying is why pay an extra £xx at the dealer when you can have the same work done to (roughly) the same level by trained staff at an independant.

WS, it's not worth trying to argue with you. All you do is keep "broken record" repeating the same party line!

Just take it as fact that the worst pieces of diagnostic work I've seen all came from manufacturer trained "vehicle technicians" working at main dealers.

I you're paying more (maybe 2x or 3x) than you would for an independent then you do expect more for that money.

I think some (not all) of franchises just don't give value for money in that respect.

It's random too. Local Audi dealer has a terrible reputation round here, Renault dealer has a good rep, Volvo very good, Fiat very bad.

go to a different town and you'll get a different result.

A Vauxhall main dealer (c.1998) took 2 goes and 5 weeks and never phoned me once to change the clutch in my Cav turbo. Why - quote "we don't get many of these and they're quite complicated"! Truth - (i) they first fitted the wrong parts (ii) they had no one competent to deal with the 4wd system (iii) the re-work then had to be slipped in after hours so that their incompetence didn't hit workshop profits.

The only positive was that they stuck to the original price quoted - but by then they should have been paying me!

The fact is all garages are hit and miss (like individual people) but main dealer prices are not getting you any guarantee of greater quality of service/parts or expertise - you are just paying the overheads.

I think you misunderstand what's being said, people here, certainly me, would definately not go to the cheapest place to have their car serviced. As Chris says, we will take it to the place that gives best value for money which 9 times out of 10 is a specialist independant.

They deal with VAG cars everyday and are VAG trained so you're pretty much safe in the knowledge that they know what they're doing with your car yet it costs a significant amount less than taking it to a dealer. (an average of £230 for a 40k service and cambelt in my case)

All we're saying is why pay an extra £xx at the dealer when you can have the same work done to (roughly) the same level by trained staff at an independant.

fair point. when my SWOBO's mum bought a golf i rang the VAG specialist that had stamped the service book, and asked him about the servicing just to check it was genuinly stamped. he proved he had serviced the car and advised me that it was due a cambelt. the reason he told me that is he had the wrong information about the car. he had it down as the wrong power output 1.9tdi and that meant it wasnt due for a cambelt yet. so even they can get it wrong sometimes! but as the car has clearly been looked after, if it wasnt for the fact that the garage was about 4 hours away, i would certainly advise her to try him over a main dealer, as i can see he gives good service. but as hes so far away from me, she will be going to the main dealer to try them first as they are most convienient.

WS, it's not worth trying to argue with you. All you do is keep "broken record" repeating the same party line!

Just take it as fact that the worst pieces of diagnostic work I've seen all came from manufacturer trained "vehicle technicians" working at main dealers.

erm isnt that what your doing too? im happy to accept that due to an episode of imcompetence at some point in time you have your opinion on dealerships, and i have mine. even though i have had a bad experiance with one, i wouldnt stop using them.

im not trying to argue, i state my point and then you state yours. i would call this a discussion personally, but i dont expect you to suddenly change your opinion, just the same as im not goingto change mine!

i can understand your point, im simply stating that its not black and white and trying to give views from the other side of the fence and stop needless main dealer bashing

A Vauxhall main dealer (c.1998) took 2 goes and 5 weeks and never phoned me once to change the clutch in my Cav turbo. Why - quote "we don't get many of these and they're quite complicated"! Truth - (i) they first fitted the wrong parts (ii) they had no one competent to deal with the 4wd system (iii) the re-work then had to be slipped in after hours so that their incompetence didn't hit workshop profits.

The only positive was that they stuck to the original price quoted - but by then they should have been paying me!

The fact is all garages are hit and miss (like individual people) but main dealer prices are not getting you any guarantee of greater quality of service/parts or expertise - you are just paying the overheads.

i was going to say its not hard to change a clutch on the c20let engine they were just probably afraid they would sneeze and break the 4wd system lol!

My first main dealer.. not long time ago.. disaster I must say.

I always took my cars to small family garage nearby and they always been great, when not needed they would advise me when needed they would say how much would cost.

Just got my lovely tdi L&K octavia MKI ..and always went to main dealer so I decided to find one near here. despite the the cost I looked foward to make sure all was fine and fixed. the small stuff was easy to fix and straight forward but when it came to fix something from air con they removed the dashbord replaced something that was not the problem and charged me 350 quid. well after a week I was there ofcourse, saying the problem remains. well guess they want to open again and replace the 3rd part they should had removed in the first place and want to charge 150 more..lol. charging me only 2 hours labour now instead of 4 to do the same thing.

I will save the details for a private conversation cause unfortunatelly this is only small part of the misery.

bad experience I must say..Im thinking twice sending it there to service ofcourse.

I honestly agree they dont deserve our money.. and what I see its they just want to sell new cars.. they are not interested in helping you..while that guy that became a mechanic and open a business that really enjoys to fix not just to say he workds for..pff

I find my main dealer to be no more expensive than elsewhere, so will always keep going there.

:+1:

I find my main dealer to be cheaper than the other indy garages, even ones highly regarded on here.

The other dealers in the area are sometimes a touch cheaper but this dealer seems perfectly happy to match prices for comparable work.

That plus they are friendly, helpful and warrant the work they do. If they do make a mistake they seem to hold their hands up, apologise and fix it plus go out of their way to make sure you are happy.

While some indy garages are good at this others are less so.

I do have to say however, the computer crashing line is a bit of a joke mate. The computers in a car have to comply to certain standards, the code to MISRA standards. It just means people were more careful when coding it as opposed to when people write non mission critical code.

I'd just like to throw my opinion in here, hope that it just adds to the information and opinions and doesnt start anything off....

I work in a 'main dealer'. We're franchised by skoda, but independant of any motor groups.

We charge £55 an hour labour. which i know is quite cheap for around here. We've got two VAS 5051B machines, each of which cost about 8 grand. we've got literally a wall of VW/Skoda specific tools, plus more boxes and diagnostic leads etc in another small room with all the workshop manuals.

We've got three trained mechanics (four if you count my boss, who used to be workshop manager), and one mechanical apprentice (i'm the parts apprentice).

We service all makes if you really want us to, and try our best to fix any fault presented to us. Recently we had a customer come in for some investigation work which turned out to be a split CV gaiter, he went elsewhere to have it done, and then came back a few weeks later as the the independant garage he went to either fitted the wrong CV gaiter, or didn't fit it properly. He then ended up paying for us to remedy the issue, which by using us in the first place, instead of 'saving' money and using the indy, could have saved him a good hundred quid or so.

EVERYWHERE will have good and bad technicians, its just a part of life.

We wash every service car, have decent, new courtesy cars, which we charge a £5 insurance charge for, as we're a very small garage, and most of our customers are local to us and don't need them. We pick up and drop off people and cars within a reasonable distance for free, and don't charge for tea or coffee

As for genuine parts being worse than pattern parts, you're having a complete laugh. As we service most cars, we use a lot of independant parts places, such as unipart, allmake, GSF etc etc etc. Most of those parts are a worse condition to begin with than genuine skoda ones, and some of them have a retail higher than the equivilant genuine part.

If pattern parts were as good or better quality than genuine ones, don't you think that VAG would strike a deal with the manufacturers of those parts, considering they could probably make them a lot cheaper than VW could?

The fact that there ARE genuine parts means that there's a difference between pattern and the genuine ones. sometimes it is just price, but mostly it'll be the thousands of hours in R&D, testing, improvements, more R&D and yet more improvements that makes them better. Anybody could make an oil filter given one to copy and all the parts needed. it takes someone special to make that first one, and make it work as well as it can.

Sorry for the long post...:eek:

Tink

I'm sorry mate, but you're talking MBF there.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, makes their own filters; they're all bought-in. In fact PSA are the only manufacturer to make their own dampers!

I find some of the comments on pattern parts hilarious.

GSF sell:

- brembo discs (same part no as OEM)

- Mann Filters (air and pollen have same part number as OEM)

- Dampers

- Clutch kits

Pretty much all of these are made by the same people who made the original part to the same specification.

FWIW I bought some genuine VAG calliper carriers and the quality of the casting and machining to a smooth surface was quite frankly sh*te. Very rough cast and very uneven `smooth` surface with varying height all over.

I use a dealer because they give good service for a good price and that is value for money. If they dealer didn't do that they would not get my business.

Tip for the guy who said `why don't VAG strike a deal if pattern parts are as good`

The 312mm Brake callipers and carriers etc are made by ATE not VAG

The Air/Pollen Filters are made by MANN not VAG

The DMF/Clutch is made by sachs/LuK not VAG

The CR Fuel Systems are made by Bosch not VAG

The Tyres are not made by VAG

The Brake pads are usually Pagid/Textar/Mintex or similar not VAG

The dampers are sachs not VAG

The windscreen & glass is not made by VAG

VAG design a car based around available parts and design bits where needed. A pattern part will quite often be to the same quality, especially if it complies to reg 90

The last time I got involved with parts (other than PSA dampers) that quite emphatically were OEM design and manufacture, they were Ford and GM "own make" carbs. A "usually necessary fix" for reliability problems with these was to replace them with a Weber!

I think there is a reality gap between the service many garages think they deliver to customers (I'm not singling out Main Dealers with that comment) and actual customers' experiences. Individuals within the garage may be motivated/competent etc. but under the reality of daily workload/profit pressures the organisation and communication often break down resulting in mistakes and poor handling of customers. Too many times in my experience service receptionists fail to pass on vital information to the mechanics even when it is supplied in writing! It isn't easy running a large garage to a high standard.

And yes Ken, my dreadful autochoked Manta had a manual Weber replacement - frightening how long ago that seems now!