Hi all, after having read a fair few many threads over the last three years i've been on here it seems to be the general opinion that main dealers are 'stealers'.

Well as some of you will know about a year and a half ago I started a new job and I now actually work for Volkswagen UK in aftersales.

So this post is going to be a bit one sided from my point of view as i am now an employee of a main dealer, but I would also like to add rightly so... please stay with me, i would just like to put some views across from the other side of the fence...

So firstly main dealers are called 'stealers' asumingly because of prices?

Well first of all i'll be first to hold my hands up and say yes we are more expensive than other garages that can do the work... but is it honestly the same work/experiance that they do?

OK... so you have spent £10K - £30K on a car proberbally 2nd biggest investment outside of your house. This car is packed full of electronics / sensors with an engine capperbal of accelorating this car / weapon to over 100mph.

To make this car do this millions of pounds have been invested in it's design and manufacture by whoever it is, be it Skoda/VW/Ford etc. etc. to get all of this technology working together in harmony with very fine tolorences provided by using certain materials etc.

Now for this technology to work it requires a sophisticated computer to run it, maybe even more than just one, computers as you know need to be looked after as i'm sure you are all reading this via. a computer that has crashed at some stage in it's life.

So as you know you need a bit of know how if your pc crashes and sometimes you will need to take it to a pc specilist to be mended/checked. (your pc being a posh electronic type-writer / large photo storage device / video player). Now for those of you who bought from PC world no doubt you will take it back there to be fixed at cost.

Now going back to this car / 100mph weapon again...

Once every 10,000 miles or 1 year it requires a service... so what is this? oil and filter change? maybe yes. On alternate years these are the only components changed with a sump plug. So £150 sounds :eek: for that little work! But what do you get for that?

Well going back to these millions of pounds invested in producing the product you own... with that comes £1000s spent on training some of the countrys best techs specifically on your vehicle so they know every inch of its electronics systems and mechanical abilitys. Thats one/maybe two hours this person is checking over your £10-£30K addition to your family. Obviously backed up he will use diagnostic equipment costing £1000s that will work in harmony with your car checking specifically all your safety systems are working correctly. Rather than a general laptop with a few downloaded software packages to cover the basics.

You then come and collect your car in evening and what do you actually get for your £100 - £400. A car that looks cleaner than before it came it, but it still feels the same. Not much then really in your opinion oh and a stamp in the book.

Well now look at that stamp differently... for three years things may have been breaking on your car and the very kind dealer has been mending them FOC through warranty as you would expect. This warranty has now expired and boom something breaks... and just imagine its a really horrific cost attached to repair... you can ring up customer services and complain... they then look at your service history... 3 main dealer stamps... maybe they will help contribute to repair. Flip side of coin no main dealer stamps in history... to any contribution.

Also... whilst we talk cars / computers... just imagine how out of date your car's computers are after 5/6 years maybe they require software updates to help running of your engine etc. Perhaps main dealers do this automatically when your vehicle is being serviced wouldnt get this on a little laptop in a shed.

So just think about where your PC/TV goes when its broken and how much you spend on something of its value on repairs. Now think of where your car goes and how much you spend proportionally to said telly/PC on cost of repairs etc.

All it takes is one missed fault in the cars electronics when you hit a puddle at 100mph and ESP doesnt react as it should... or the aftermarket brake pads dont work as well compared to the standard ones tested by the manufacturer when they spent millions testing and developing your car.

Oh... and my main dealer (before i worked for them) told me my turbo had a leaky oil seal and would cost me £XXX to repair along with faulty oil pressure switch 'apparently'. I could see no loss of oil on my drive and had no warning lights in my eyes all was ok. Said car has now gone... did a long trip and seal gave way turbo spun at 30,000rpm with nothing protecting it and of course no oil warning when i lost pressure. Car needed a new engine £XXXX.

Next time i will listen to them!

Also speaking as someone in aftersales... believe me... cabelts are reccomended on time and distance for a reason!!

Sorry for long :mad: but Main Dealers get shot down far to much in my opinion.

:sofahide:

let the arguments begin...

Like you say very one sided

Why would you pay £50 more for the same parts just because they are a main dealer?

I think in all the years I have had my cars I have probably had 1-2 main dealer service(Car still in warranty)

I always find a vag specialist to be not only cheaper but more happy to see you

I can't tell you how many times I have been to or phoned dealers for parts and the guy on the other end of the phone has no idea what your talking about

What car is it?

Whats the chassis number?

Oh you can't put that on your car it's for an Audi

The reason I use non dealer servicing is I feels you just get better one on one service

So firstly main dealers are called 'stealers' asumingly because of prices?

Well first of all i'll be first to hold my hands up and say yes we are more expensive than other garages that can do the work... but is it honestly the same work/experiance that they do?

Have to agree with Fezboy on this one

Im lucky that we have very good independent Vag specialist too nearby, the standard of work is way above what Ive seen from main dealer servicing, and for personal service is outstanding - all this for much less than you would at a dealer.

Well going back to these millions of pounds invested in producing the product you own... with that comes £1000s spent on training some of the countrys best techs specifically on your vehicle so they know every inch of its electronics systems and mechanical abilitys. Thats one/maybe two hours this person is checking over your £10-£30K addition to your family. Obviously backed up he will use diagnostic equipment costing £1000s that will work in harmony with your car checking specifically all your safety systems are working correctly. Rather than a general laptop with a few downloaded software packages to cover the basics.

Maybe some of these £1000s spent on training could be spent on the correct use of tools - some of the most sloppy mechanical work I've seen have been on cars that have gone through main dealer servicing - chewed nuts' date=' over filled liquids, split oil everywhere, and the occasional socket left in the engine bay. However thats not to say ALL dealers are like that.

Also... whilst we talk cars / computers... just imagine how out of date your car's computers are after 5/6 years maybe they require software updates to help running of your engine etc. Perhaps main dealers do this automatically when your vehicle is being serviced wouldnt get this on a little laptop in a shed.

So just think about where your PC/TV goes when its broken and how much you spend on something of its value on repairs. Now think of where your car goes and how much you spend proportionally to said telly/PC on cost of repairs etc.

To the recycling centre - nobody really repairs broken TV's today - the cost would be more than a new TV, same is happening with cars with manufacturer's fondness for shoving increasing complex electronics into cars, as someone said to me once the scrapyards of the future will be full of cars in perfect condition - the electronics if they got zapped or needed repair, would exceed the value of the car.

The thrust of your discussion, is actually geared to vehicle electronics, I know one or two people have turned to older cars because they were getting fed up of ever increasing complex electronics now being used. Someone at work still rides around in a 70s Beetle when they could easy afford a new car - I asked them why they were still using the Beetle - the answer was - it doesnt need a computer to make it go.

No disrespect to Richard but people will always go to the cheapest place they can - you have to remember everything in this country is outstripping wages, when you have paid all your ever increasing bills, and your car needs a service, where do you take it? I know you have presented a case for dealer servicing, but some people aren't even bothering with any servicing at all.

I'd be interested to know how many of the best techs do routine servicing. I know in my line of work that being the best/most senior means you get to pick the interesting jobs and it's the work experience student who gets the jobs no-one else wants.

Chris

I find my main dealer to be no more expensive than elsewhere, so will always keep going there.

Also worth bearing in mind that us dealers aren't actually a charity and strangely enough we to try and make some profit some where down the line.

I don't know why motordealers have such a reputation we are not all bad, it would be interesting to know what the occpuation is of the people who moan about the dealers actually is.

I'm not having a go at anyone in particular.....

/awaits the inevitable

As an IT consultant my clients would rightly expect me to have instant and specific knowledge for £100/hour. If I needed to research something it would be at my cost/time. If I messed something up I would be expected to fix it at my own cost/time. If I replaced a component that didn't fix a problem and it turns out didn't need changing - I couldn't charge for it, at best I would have to replace the original component at my own cost and get a refund on that part.

Main dealers don't have the level of knowledge that they should for the money they charge. They expect to embark on random componet replacement and charge you for every wrong guess. They take every chance to maximise profits - supply oil at 1l bottle prices when you know they get in in 50Gallon barrels etc. They always manage to charge for screen wash even when you filled it up to overflowing before dropping it off. And you know your £100/hour is not getting a master mechanic but some spotty trainee. They treat customers as cattle and they deserve the title stealers.

And I have never had my car cleaned - it usually comes back with additional minor scratches/dirt marks etc.

As some of you will know, I'm very happy with the service I've had from Queensborough (aka Henry's North) in Glasgow.

But, they only charge about £50 an hour for labour, and have never charged me for screenwash.

Well I just had my car serviced at the local corner garage as I'm sick of the main dealers - despite me being very clear - I even left a note!, they have still used the 'wrong' oil and still managed 1 packet of screenwash! The only compensation is the hourly labour rate is at least sensible. Kill 'em all.

I've never had a problem with main dealers from a Skoda point of view, don't get me started on a certain Nissan dealership

I always get my cars serviced there, all my parts and consumables come from there if possible.

It's reassuring to have the main dealer stamp in the book as far as I'm concerned.

My former employer used a fleet company that adopted a 'back street garage' policy when it came to servicing.

My silver Octavia was done in this way and the service was shocking - the places were dirty and greasy everywhere,a less than brilliant standard of work (the service amounted to my hinges being sprayed with white grease , replacement of unnecessary parts (my newly purchased OEM blades replaced with some crap cheapo efforts) and the courtesy car: a J reg Rover 200 with wobbly steering wheel, fag burns in the seat and 2 front tyres on the wear markers! :eek:

Thankfully I have changed companies and I am now in charge of my own servicing. Main dealer every time

I appreciate why some people avoid their main dealer though. If I had issues with my dealer I would go elsewhere in an instant.

Yet to deal with Skoda for servicing. They'll get business for 3yr then we'll see.

I think main dealers (the ones with the bad rep) just don't go the step further that the small guys do. I mean small things like a snotty disinterested member of staff. The guys who fob you off with crap reasons. Poor workmanship and sloppy practice. I think this happens in any business where the staff can hide behind the size of teh company.

I've had 1 opertunity to deal with Skoda service staff so far and I have NEVER been spoken to so rudely in any business that wants my money.

Conversely the father and son garage I've been to for the last few years show a genuine interest in the customers. Work isn't carried out if it's not needed. I've never been fobbed off. I've been offered 2 months to pay a bill when I mentioned it was a tight month. I've been taken into the garage with the car on the ramp and had problems explained to me with no rush or attitude, they just want to help. I suppose that's just the benefit of an owner operator business, you custom really does matter.

That's not to say all franchises are bad, I've had good service from Ford, Renault and Vauxhall in the past. But most people I know have had issues with franchises.

Wish my car looked cleaner after a service, never had a main dealer carry out a courtesy wash. Lucky to get the use of a courtesy car and even when they loan one it's usually running on vapours!!!

I've had good service from my local Skoda main dealer. I've had the manager of a local small garage be very rude to me when I took my wifes Mondeo back because it didn't feel 'right' to me (Front wishbone came adrift a couple of days later!)

I guess there are good & bad everywhere.

As far as washing the car is concerned, I can do that myself. It's NOT free; everything has a cost even if it's hidden and I'd probably do a much better job.

To reply to the initial posting, my servicing has been closer to £250 a pop for basically routine servicing and I shudder to think what the cambelt serivce is going to be. Yes I get a courtesy car( with no fuel in the tank) but the car is never valeted or anything like that.

Having said that the guys have been helpful and carried out warranty work without quibble (the car having to go back five or six times for doo seal leaks and a new radiator when the old one dumped the coolant on my drive. My family knows the owner of the garage so hopefully I can "do a deal" for that dreaded cambelt change. That is the servce after next though so I have to start saving:eek:

Some goods points about using dealers but.....

I'm getting quotes for my 40k service and cambelt (inc water pump) and for comparison two quotes, one from my dealer and one from a fully licencensed, sponsor of this site.

One of the quotes is £480 the other is £830. Guess which one is the dealer's and guess which one out of the two I'd go for!

How can there be a justifiable reason for the extra £350 difference! Sorry, independant specialist all the way for me!

My uncle has never had any issues with his last two cars when they have been in to the main dealer for servicing. Mind you, it's a Lexus...

And he'd never consider taking it to, say, Fennsport, instead?

i dont know where this rep for all dealers to be "stealers" ive not had to deal with a dealer until i came to work for one. ive found the guys here to be great at what they do, knowledgable and honest.

in fact i think they are better than most of the other garages ive had to deal with. as for prices, if you look hard enough you will always find someone willing to do jobs cheaper, but if one garage says 500 quid and another says 300 theres got to be a reason. i wouldnt want to risk my life by getting some shoddy servicing done just as its the cheapest. what happens if they didnt use the right torque settings on a vital bit of suspension, causing it to fail at 70mph? surely not worth the risk!?

remember that people who work in any garage will probably have had someone kick off at them for a reason thats not their fault, even the most professional of us can suffer from a bad day. they are only human after all. personally i would always try the dealer for servicing if i had the choice, if one gives crap service then report it. they wont improve unless someone knows its happening.

its all swings and roundabouts at the end of the day some are good some are bad. but mostly i agree with the OP.

in fact i think they are better than most of the other garages ive had to deal with. as for prices, if you look hard enough you will always find someone willing to do jobs cheaper, but if one garage says 500 quid and another says 300 theres got to be a reason. i wouldnt want to risk my life by getting some shoddy servicing done just as its the cheapest. what happens if they didnt use the right torque settings on a vital bit of suspension, causing it to fail at 70mph? surely not worth the risk!?

Yes, the reason is down to the labour rate, pure and simple! Imhe, most independent specialists are run by ex >insert favourite manufacturer here< technicians who wanted to see more of the hourly rate than they did at a main dealer. I've also found that they care more and do a better job (and use better quality components) and rely on their good reputations to build a customer base as they can't guarantee repeat business like most main dealers can. On the downside, they don't have a shiny showroom or brand new courtesy cars.

Your analogy about shoddy servicing is also laughable imhe. I've taken cars to all sorts of places and the only time I've had problems was when it was entrusted to main dealers. As was said earlier in the thread, I'm more than happy to pay the going rate for the best people to do the work, but in my experience the best people work for independent specialists!

Chris

:iagree: plus I'd rather pay £25 an hour and know that at least half of it is going into the pockets of the guys working in the business, than £100 an hour and know that most of it is going on paying for a flashy new car showroom, and a "board of directors" who don't necessarily even know how to open a bonnet!

Our local VW dealer is advertising an MOT and service for £99 (3yr+ old cars). With an MOT costing 50 quid the sums do not add up. Main dealers are in my opinion ony "fitters" not menders like the old fashioned independant garages. Although due to complexities of electronics etc some of these guys will be in the dark regarding some things. Labour charges are WAY TOO HIGH at main dealers but you are paying for the "free " coffee and glass/chrome surroundings. They do also treat you like you are doing THEM a favour in giving them your custom.

I find my main dealer to be no more expensive than elsewhere, so will always keep going there.

Same here, I like to keep the book stamped up with a dealer stamp.

Yes, the reason is down to the labour rate, pure and simple! Imhe, most independent specialists are run by ex >insert favourite manufacturer here< technicians who wanted to see more of the hourly rate than they did at a main dealer. I've also found that they care more and do a better job (and use better quality components) and rely on their good reputations to build a customer base as they can't guarantee repeat business like most main dealers can. On the downside, they don't have a shiny showroom or brand new courtesy cars.

Your analogy about shoddy servicing is also laughable imhe. I've taken cars to all sorts of places and the only time I've had problems was when it was entrusted to main dealers. As was said earlier in the thread, I'm more than happy to pay the going rate for the best people to do the work, but in my experience the best people work for independent specialists!

Chris

your point about using better quality parts, er, how can that be?? the best IS the manufacter parts. so unless hes using non skoda parts which isnt a very good idea really. then how can that be a factor? the only parts i would use are proper skoda parts. unless i was uprating my car and use other quality components such as springs, suspension parts and exhausts but a pattern part wouldnt make it on to my car!

and your other point, what shiney showroom? that is the SALES dept, nothing to do with the SERVICE DEPT the 2 depts are seperate. the only reason you may find a service reception in a sales area is to save money, and so they can both use the same wating area, coffe machine etc. most smaller garages i use dont even have a courtesy car either. nor a courtesy bus to come and get them from town, or a way of collecting your car from home, or even picking you up from work.

end of the day their may be a higher labour charge, but that also goes to train and develop the techicans, and give them regualar updates on all the skoda engines, parts and fixes. but then if you cant understand what you are paying for (or if your dealer dosent give you your moneys worth) just go elsewhere, but dont tarnish dealer services depts witht he same brush

:iagree: plus I'd rather pay £25 an hour and know that at least half of it is going into the pockets of the guys working in the business, than £100 an hour and know that most of it is going on paying for a flashy new car showroom, and a "board of directors" who don't necessarily even know how to open a bonnet!

once again, do you really think the service dept managers give a hoot about shiney sales rooms? come on!! and your comment about board directors?? so you dont buy products from any major brand on that basis then? after all the board of directors at tesco dont know how to opertate a till, so why give them a percentage of your money either??

same thing happens when you go to a small garage. the guy fixing your car probably isnt the governer of the place, he too "might not know how to open a bonnet" so does that mean you cant use them? the techs get paid at the dealership same as everywhere else

Our local VW dealer is advertising an MOT and service for £99 (3yr+ old cars). With an MOT costing 50 quid the sums do not add up. Main dealers are in my opinion ony "fitters" not menders like the old fashioned independant garages. Although due to complexities of electronics etc some of these guys will be in the dark regarding some things. Labour charges are WAY TOO HIGH at main dealers but you are paying for the "free " coffee and glass/chrome surroundings. They do also treat you like you are doing THEM a favour in giving them your custom.

£99 quid for a mot (£50) plus a service (£49) seems bad to you? seems ok to me. but then if your idea of a service is to empty the oil out and simply refill then yes it would be over priced. but i think paying a tech 49 quid to do the service properly is fair enough, how long will it take to do the service? 30 mins? 45mins? so paying him to do that plus the materials you would expect to pay less than 49?

if your treated like that i would go to another dealer and see if they are any better! cant get much worse really!!

and im still stumped as to why everyone thinks the sole reason for having higher labour charges is to do with the nice building you sit in while waiting for your car to be fixed. thats defo one for the Urban Myths section!!

Some very interesting replys and some very good points made.

Just wanted to raise a point, thats all.