Well had my day with Don last Wednesday

Arrived at the dinner just before 9.30am and after getting a brew Don began his coaching. Now I've read that some people aren't keen on Don's approach as he makes you work for it, no handing of information on a plate here. This I tried to prepared for but its still hard work.

After the dinner it was then a drive down to the bottom of the airfield. Once there Don began setting his cones up for his course. Once done it was time for me to get use to the circuit also gives Don a chance to see what he working with. After a few laps we swapped over for Don to give a demonstration. Straight away it was obvious I had much to discover. Were I would be understeering (Skoda Fabia vRS) around the corners, Don was able to hook the front end right into the apex's. One section was designed to represent a high speed lane change. Here Don was using much less steering effort and was able to get on the power much earlier resulting in a higher speed for the entry to the next.

As mention before, Don coaching works by making you notice the differences between your driving and his. From here Don then goes onto explain the theory behind it. Throughout the day slip angles, tyres, hinting, weight distribution and how the brain works are explained. I even took the lift down a couple of levels and came back up more relaxed

A couple of the area's I found tricky to get my head around was releasing the steering lock, quickly and smoothly. I also seem to have a natural habit of getting back on the power as soon as I'm into the corner. I was shocked to discover how even the slightest amount of Power has a big impact on weight distribution and thus grip.

By the end of the day I was really enjoying myself was even getting to a point wear the rear was starting to move around a little. It then got to the point were Don had to tell me to go home and save my tyres

Speaking of which it wasn't that bad. Couple of days before hand I swapped my rear wheels/tyres from my winters to my old summers. However I was unable to swap the front winters tyres to summer tyres. The front (winters) have suffered from some outer block damage however still got plenty of life left. They even still worked well in this weekends snow . Rears are getting low but still road legal. The biggest area of the car that seemed to suffer was my front brakes but that's down to cheap motor factor pads.

I have a feeling this was my first of many visits I'm be having with Don. Highly recommend him to anyone.

It depends a bit on what you mean by "getting back on the power"; I'll normally have enough power on to hold speed and chase the vanishing point, but I won't accelerate hard until I see the vanishing point moving away from me.

That's exactly what I do, just enough to hold speed. By coming off altogether the weight would increase onto the front tyres creating more grip. I was quiet amazed really.

Glad you had a a good day, John - every time I read a review like this, it makes me want to head back and do the course again

It depends a bit on what you mean by "getting back on the power"; I'll normally have enough power on to hold speed and chase the vanishing point, but I won't accelerate hard until I see the vanishing point moving away from me.

There is a school of thought that if you drop the entry speed slightly such that it is below the "limit point", you can be positively on the power throughout the bend with the slight weight shift "squatting" the rear of the car down and increasing stabilility, resulting in a higher exit speed from the corner (as there is a smaller transition from accelerating moderately to accelerating a lot) while still remaining within the safety of the limit point approach.

I think what John is referring to in this context though is the management of grip such that "spending" less on steering means there is more available grip to "spend" on acceleration. Most people steer too much and for too long and Don encourages you to become more in tune with the feedback available of what the tyre is doing and the grip available. The results are quite astounding and I was surprised how much of an improvement it had on my road driving.

Highly recommended!

Chris

Glad you had a a good day, John - every time I read a review like this, it makes me want to head back and do the course again

There is a school of thought that if you drop the entry speed slightly such that it is below the "limit point", you can be positively on the power throughout the bend with the slight weight shift "squatting" the rear of the car down and increasing stabilility, resulting in a higher exit speed from the corner (as there is a smaller transition from accelerating moderately to accelerating a lot) while still remaining within the safety of the limit point approach.

I think what John is referring to in this context though is the management of grip such that "spending" less on steering means there is more available grip to "spend" on acceleration. Most people steer too much and for too long and Don encourages you to become more in tune with the feedback available of what the tyre is doing and the grip available. The results are quite astounding and I was surprised how much of an improvement it had on my road driving.

Highly recommended!

Chris

That sounds complicated, but I presume "steering too much" refers to lock angle rather than constant small adjustments? I know I don't have the second issue anyway! I assure you I do understand about using power (and indeed brakes) to make transient weight transfer shifts (to the extent that I can be on the brakes as I turn in, but still do only one sweep of lock on then transfer brake to throttle to move weight back, killing understeer and stabilising the car). I'm not criticising Don, but I suspect that I may be doing stuff close enough to his method to not make the course worthwhile.

That sounds complicated, but I presume "steering too much" refers to lock angle rather than constant small adjustments?

It could apply to either - in both cases you may be turning the wheel more than you need to

I know I don't have the second issue anyway! I assure you I do understand about using power (and indeed brakes) to make transient weight transfer shifts (to the extent that I can be on the brakes as I turn in, but still do only one sweep of lock on then transfer brake to throttle to move weight back, killing understeer and stabilising the car).

Killing understeer would seem to suggest you're asking too much of the tyres though? Aka steering too much

I'm not criticising Don, but I suspect that I may be doing stuff close enough to his method to not make the course worthwhile.

Yeah I thought that too - and then I did his course

Chris

Ok, so we're clear, I'm not saying that I do this stuff as well as Don does; just that I do it already.

Oh and pretty much all road cars will understeer as a matter of suspension geometry, if you enter a corner on neutral throttle and weight distribution. Understeer (technical definition) is a tendancy for the car to run wider than the geometrically commanded course, due to differences i nthe front and rear slip angles. Winding on too much lock is a crude way of attempting to correct understeer.

It reminds of Hamilton on TopGear doing his guest lap. Because the car was as crappy as we know they are one could read extremely well from chassis movements how he was actively controlling dynamic weight distrubiution through brakes and throttle application. Most track driving techniques divide a corner into three phases. Braking, maintaining, accelerating. It is all about managing a given grip level and deciding on distribution between the needs of cornering, braking and acceleration.

In thoery you should not accelerate or brake at all mid corner (just before, apex and just past) as this allows you to carry the highest speed through the corner as all available tyre grip is dedicated to countering lateral forces/braking/acceleration

Ok, so we're clear, I'm not saying that I do this stuff as well as Don does; just that I do it already.

Well that's for you to decide - when I went for the course, I was quite happily driving round corners. The day with Don is much more than trying to copy him though and it's about becoming more sensitive to feedback from the tyres and how this can be used to maximise available grip.

Oh and pretty much all road cars will understeer as a matter of suspension geometry, if you enter a corner on neutral throttle and weight distribution. Understeer (technical definition) is a tendancy for the car to run wider than the geometrically commanded course, due to differences i nthe front and rear slip angles. Winding on too much lock is a crude way of attempting to correct understeer.

Presumably steering more will increase the slip angle difference and make things worse? Don explores techniques which are more pro-active so where most people get into the corner and wind on a significant amount of steering, he advocates using the technique of hinting whereby you begin to steer earlier and as a result can steer less to turn the car.

Chris

I'm not saying that I do this stuff as well as Don does; just that I do it already.

Well that's for you to decide

Ken, from my point of view as someone who doesn't know you or your driving, it's more about whether you are hungry to learn more or whether you are happy with your driving as it is.

Well that's for you to decide - when I went for the course, I was quite happily driving round corners. The day with Don is much more than trying to copy him though and it's about becoming more sensitive to feedback from the tyres and how this can be used to maximise available grip.

Presumably steering more will increase the slip angle difference and make things worse? Don explores techniques which are more pro-active so where most people get into the corner and wind on a significant amount of steering, he advocates using the technique of hinting whereby you begin to steer earlier and as a result can steer less to turn the car.

Chris

This actually sounds very familiar, and yes more steering angle can increase understeer and make things worse.

Not a Skoda, and on private land. I've had so much angle on (deliberately, proving a point) that I could steer lock on or off and it made no difference to the car's course. What did make a difference was suddenly lifting off the throttle, at which point the front bit and I had to (and did, perfectly) catch a rear-end skid.

^ My fav is to keep the back sliding by throttle application and steering lock adjustments - nothing better than FWD drifting

nothing better than FWD drifting

RWD drifting?

Chris

One of the area's brought to my attention was that after my turn in, I would keep said slip angle, try and maintain speed until I was ready to reduce slip angle and start applying more power.

What I wasn't doing was feeling the feedback through the wheel which was highlighting I had more slip angle (With grip) available that I wasn't making use off. By coming off the loud pedal completely and applying more slip angle the car would really tighten the line. Once the entry to the next corner was seen I could get off the steering and back on the power.

Don highlights the feel for grip by using a section of the grass.

Glad you had a a good day, John - every time I read a review like this, it makes me want to head back and do the course again

Remember Chris you can tailor your day to what you want. Example the other guy was just learning drifting his Boxster. It was his 6th day with Don over 5 years. Each time learning something new. Think each day he had a different car too which probably helps (FWD, RWD)

Been a while since you had yours. Surely time for another visit

Trouble is we're buying a house at the moment and the missus has earmarked a big chunk of cash for a new kitchen and various projects. Still, I suppose it's a good excuse to haggle and see if I can get at least £500 off

Chris

I just looked at Don's webpage. £2k for two days of coaching? I'd have to get 10 hours per day to make it a good value .

Did you guys take the 1-day £450 course or the masterclass £2k one?

I did the £450 Car Control course which is at Bruntingthorpe in your own car. The masterclass is done at Anglesey in a couple of "course cars" and the coaching is split between Don and Mark Hales (iirc) over the two days. I think the Masterclass was launched a few months after I did the car control course (and coincided with Don resigning from HPC Gatekeeping) but it didn't really appeal to me as I'm not especially interested in track driving and £2k is a big chunk of cash.

Saying that, though, people who I know who've done it speak very highly of it and think it represents good value for money.

Chris

If I spent £2k driving for few hours over two days in old bangers I'd would be dammn sure to proclaim it a good value ofr money .

When you think about it, you can buy an used 4-stroke racing go-kart, safety gear and still have £1k for track fees, maintenance and fuel . Would last you a whole season.

Or you could run whole Club100 championship over the course of year (I think it is £1200 or so) with everything provided for you plus have 8 "how fast" driving days at Bedford Autodrome . I think I know where value for money would be for me! I am not trying to bash it or anything and i do understand they have to pay to hire the track, maintian ther ars, pay insurance and make a living out of it. I personally just do not see value for money in this. I can always improve my driving and I think it would do me more good if I went to 20 "How Fast" track days, watched vids of my driving and learn this way. Afterall, if you cannot feel what input the car needs from you to go fast on instinctive basis no amount of coaching is going to make you into a fast track day driver. The knowledge of theory is a prerequisit, same as car mechanics and physics.

I think for what your getting out of it his days are cheap.

Even the best drivers have training/coaching

My day was the £450 car control course. I do like road driving (as you know Chris ) but I also like track driving. I've done a few trackdays over the years and I got more from 7 hours with Don than any off them. I've read the theory but putting it into practice was different.

I bet you'd get more from Don in his car control course than 5 brisky how fast events.

Now his master class. I'd love to hand over £2k and have Anglsey all to yourself (no one else but just you 3) even if it was still my own car.

I must admit £450 sounds affordable and seems to be a much better value for money than £2k just for a priviledge of having a track to yourself for two days . On the other hand, it is a cost of a remap... I know that power without control is nothing

I do my own remaps so doesn't cost me anything

On a serious note I would choose coaching over performance mods every time. Coaching follows you everywhere, performance mods cannot, well most can't

On the day Don had his Golf 1.9 TDI (300k miles +), Simon had his Boxster S and me in my humble fabia. To get to the section of the airfield we were using meant driving down half of the trackday circuit Don was gone lol

I must admit £450 sounds affordable and seems to be a much better value for money than £2k just for a priviledge of having a track to yourself for two days . On the other hand, it is a cost of a remap... I know that power without control is nothing

Imho, it comes down to where you see value and, considering they are among the best when it comes to limit handling coaching (and their client lists seem to support this), what would be a reasonable hourly rate to pay? How much would it cost to be coached by one of the top sports coaches in the country?

Of course there are much cheaper options to improve, like coaching yourself, but I'd wager that it takes significantly longer to start seeing results like this and the quality of results is largely based around how knowledgeable you are and how honest you are with yourself... There are also other coaches available - you pays your money, etc...

I've given up car modding seems a bit of a waste of money especially as I wouldn't be able to transfer them between cars

Chris

Unless you buy into the self modding route, something like shark is offering .

But yes, I absolutely agree with what you are saying above.