wyx087

I saw the video (I'm a subscriber) but I'm not convinced it is 100% honest data, may be some cherry picking going on. On SpeakEV, I saw someone had a similar location (N london) Model Y insurance rant. Assuring to see the premium was similar to mine. There is no way regular car insurance can be this expensive. Tesla's are expensive to insure, most are highest group cars. So I find it hard to believe they can find more expensive ICE cars. Leased is definitely the way to go at the moment.

Well, you certainly are not showing to have this background with the way you posted earlier. I’m not going to respond further on this matter. There is nothing to be gained with boasting unverifiable credentials on an anonymous forum.

On the contrary, this latest flare up is because you feel the need to defend diesel. This is completely unrelated to Zoe battery venting positions. I saw an article making a very valid point, you shot it down. I saw similar stat from root attached guidance paper, you decide you need to talk about how diesels couldn’t catch fire from lit match, as though it is relatable. I don’t have fire fighting experience, but I do have scientific and engineering background and know when to start believe publications. (Agreeable data from multiple sources)

No, I did not choose anything. You are completely wrong in reading my comments. I posted stats about car fires, no mention of how fire started, only grouped by fuel type. I pointed out where the data came from, because you seems to be confused between the Guardian article and UK OZEV paper. I also paraphrased your earlier post in a summary, which directly contradicts what you've later posted. Something you had not disputed. You choose to respond to a statistic that groups car fires by fuel type. You choose to respond with "diesel won't burn with a lit match" type of response. You choose to ask me why the confused reaction face. You have now chosen to re-direct at battery thermal runaway. You have now chosen to change the subject. Despite you know full well the statistics themselves are not related to how batteries burn. You have now once again decided to ignore cars as an emergent system. Therefore, my conclusion is you cannot accept those statistics that came from 4 countries and 1 company, all saying the similar thing: EV fire risk are very low, it has room to be multiple times higher than current stats before its fire risk is higher than petrol/diesel car. First you were in denial: "not in my view a well-rounded and balanced article at all and is designed to continue pushing the political narrative https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/517208-car-park-fires-transporters-ships-any-fires-an-evs-involved-or-not-thread-were-they-the-cause-just-there-and-so-made-fighting-the-fire-harder/?do=findComment&comment=5803731 Then you had anger, overreacting to a simple reaction button as though you must defend diesel fuel https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/517208-car-park-fires-transporters-ships-any-fires-an-evs-involved-or-not-thread-were-they-the-cause-just-there-and-so-made-fighting-the-fire-harder/?do=findComment&comment=5804511 Followed by bargaining, writing lots of text to comfort yourself: https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/517208-car-park-fires-transporters-ships-any-fires-an-evs-involved-or-not-thread-were-they-the-cause-just-there-and-so-made-fighting-the-fire-harder/?do=findComment&comment=5804587 Looks like now you are depressed and want to bring other people down with you, not reading properly. I can only hope you reach the final stage of your grief. 😜

I'm extremely confused, I thought this bit means max or very high RPM. But it is my experience that keeping RPM at lower than 2000 seems to give best efficiency for 2.0 TDI Octy.

How come ICE cars seems to get best MPG at low RPM? It seems to be directly opposite to what you are saying where best thermal efficiency need to be at max RPM. Thermo electric generator are a great read, very interesting little tech. They should be put everywhere!

This youtuber is doing the John o'groats to Lands End run right now: The video points out many failings by the Taycan man. Mainly not following what he know and repeatedly charge to 100%. I also questioned his charging lengths when it was initially published.

Interesting video from Bjorn on EV cold charging efficiency. It is where EV would use energy to warm up battery before actually charging at full supplied power. Looks like more and more cars are doing this to protect the battery. But it would mean lower than ideal efficiency as energy is only used to heat the battery. E

New generation of Leaf?! I'm selfishly hoping for Chademo but it will probably be CCS.

My post came directly after root's post with papers attached. My post clearly said section numbering and paper's name. My original post said Guardian article game similar figures to the UK OZEV covered car park guidance paper. No where in my post, which you quoted, stated "Guardian article gave a similar stat as the Guardian article". No, you did not always state car fires do not originate from type of fuel used. You said you don't believe in those figures and the sole reason you gave was how flammable the fuel is when it was tested by a lit match. You did not allude to any other possible reason for vehicle fire anywhere in that post. In case you forgot, this is the entirety of your post: If you really don't want to believe statical figures from 5 different sources stating similar things........

Thanks for finally confirming there are ways vehicle can catch fire other than simple fuel being set on fire. 👏 No, the Guardian article never referenced this UK OZEV paper. It referenced Australia, Sweden, Norway and Tesla report/paper/data. The figures you quoted is a screenshot from UK's OZEV paper posted by root. This is clearly stated in my earlier post.

Finally, a good article covering all charging costs. Including off-peak home charging and Tesla charging costs. Cheapest ways to get around. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/advice-electric-cars/how-much-does-it-cost-charge-electric-car

Surprisingly civil from Robert. I've seen so many rants from him. I personally prefer Jack for car reviews on that channel. This might be a different Robert? For smart meter, it's helping the grid and everyone to get cheaper energy. Have a think, electricity prices varies greatly throughout the day. If they are willing to pay over £2 per kWh for people to use less, how much it must be costing them to produce a kWh during that time? I helped last week by saving 1.22 kWh:

Come on! You are still focusing on the fuel itself. What other difference is there between a diesel vehicle and a petrol vehicle? Is there any difference in fuel line pressure? What about emission control equipments? Could faults in those increase fire risks? Also, the Guardian article did quote any figures, it only referenced other reports and only stated how many times likely for EV fires than petrol or diesel. The article never distinguished between petrol or diesel.

Because we've been through this many times. Just because the fuel itself is difficult to ignite, it does not mean the vehicle as a emergent system has less fire risk. Arguing diesel vehicle has less fire risk than petrol based solely on the way fuel is ignited..... it's like arguing TV are better than smart phone based solely on screen size.

Section 2.6 in the covered car park fire guidance gives similar stat as the Guardian article, with the same caveats such as age of vehicle in the data set. EV likelihood of fire claim need to be ~10x than existing to match diesel. Exactly as pointed out by the Guardian article, Surely this isn't pushing a political narrative

I see what you say about the Zoe battery fire access panel. I think that is the high sticking out part in the ebay listing. The fire rescue sheet section 6 talks about using it to extinguish battery fire: https://euroncaprescuesheets.blob.core.windows.net/rescuesheets/Renault/Renault_ZOE__Hatchback_2013_5d_Electric_EN.pdf This panel isn't present in Tesla MY. Same section only talks about using lots of water. https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/Model_Y_Emergency_Response_Guide_en.pdf Nor Nissan Leaf. Though there is a battery cut-off in the "transmission tunnel", not sure if battery will vent through this. https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/LEAF/2013/2013_LEAF-first-responders-guide.pdf Strange design decision by Renault.....

Hahahaha..... Their newer cars from Taxes (I think) have "structural battery". Basically use battery as the floor of the vehicle. Deep-dive disassembly vid for info if you are interested, it's not a short one. Thumbnail is enough to show what I'm saying. From this ebay listing, looks like Zoe battery have similar metal casing on the top? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355084020886

Good response, I can respect this and your views. I agree nothing much can be gained through this. The only thing I couldn't stand was your wording. It reads as though you are the authority and you can predict what will happen. So I felt compiled to point out assumptions you've made along the way and statements that are not yet proven to be true. Sorry if it reads as though I am dismissive of your views.

Whilst vehicle age is not currently taken into account (too few 10 year old examples). The Guardian article raised a valid point: BEV fire risk must be multiplied by a few times before the risk is similar to petrol/diesel. Meaning your point is only true if vast majority of petrol/diesel fire are started in its old vehicles AND if BEV fire risk increase exponentially near its end of life to bring up their risks. Neither have been proven to be true. Plastic fuel tank are only required to withstand open flame for 2 minutes. No data or requirement that I've seen on how long BEV battery are required to withstand open flame. But considering its large thermal mass and metal protection underneath against road debris, I think it will be much longer than 2min before it enters thermal runaway. On what basis do you say car parks full of BEV will spread fire faster? Other than they are parked next to each other, and strangely you've agreed to my point number 3, which directly contradicts your statement. No, re-read the Tesla page. It is talking about vehicle fires. It is after the road accident section.

This is an extremely big assumption to make. You assumed: 1. BEV are more or similarly likely to catch fire, which current stats doesn't support. 2. BEV fire spread the same as running fuel fire seen in multistory car park, this is unlikely. 3. BEV vehicle propagate and catch fire at same rate or faster than ICE vehicle. This is unproven. I think you are not understanding the meaning of per mile stats. This is the data source wording, as referreced by the Guardian article: https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport Total miles travelled by this fuel type of vehicle <divided by> All fire event for this fuel type This method is inclusive of the fact there's more of one type of vehicle.

This article popped up in my news feed: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/20/do-electric-cars-pose-a-greater-fire-risk-than-petrol-or-diesel-vehicles I thought it was a balanced view using statistical data collected, includes both sides of the coin.

There’s running gag and then there’s misinformation. Top gear at the time had a huge audience, for them to spread mid-information was very damaging to early adoption of EV’s. Their tune changed in later years, as EV adoption became inevitable. But the damage has been done, “need new battery after a few years” is still mentioned to this day.

Like living dangerously? I get the desire to visit petrol station as little as possible. It’s a waste of time and unnecessary distraction. But all ICE cars I’ve had, I always fill up just before or after fuel light to be on the safe side. I’ve had instances where after fuel light lit, the petrol station was closed. Whereas with EV, I know my driving profile near home, I am comfortable arriving at very low charge levels and I know I can definitely get a charge at home.

But do you ever base your expected range on quoted range of the vehicle? Yes, battery degrade, unlike fuel tank. But as a whole car, all components wear and degrade over time. My point is EV just degrades differently and don't expect any car to be constant, regardless of fuel source.