Graham Butcher

I apologise to most contributors to this thread, but I feel that this point needs to be made in order that we might return to normal service with people sharing points without one person continually claiming that theirs is the only point. Oh so back 1910, it was not claimed that the Titanic was unsinkable then, the owners actually claimed that it was, and the public believed that it was because of the way that the ship had been designed, and you cannot see any parallels between that claim and the claim about EV's not catching fire as often as ICE cars. Was Titanic Unsinkable_ Why Did People Think It Was_ - History.pdf

Again, taking my words completely out of context in order to make it appear as you're always right and have the last word. Funnily enough, we were discussing the points around people who already own a car, and that ICE drivers do not have the means of making their own fuel or getting it at a fraction of the cost and fuelling their car while not having to leave their house. That is something can clearly be done if you have the means of getting your EV car on your land attached to your dwelling. But then you clearly already was well aware of these factors but chose to ignore them for the sake of defending your privileged position and lord it above others less fortunate and true to form also make it appear that you alone are the source of knowledge. Why don't you now decide to change the narrative again and look at those who can afford to buy their residence and those who have to settle for social housing or house/room sharing or living with their parents in order to give you the last word and appear as the only person who has the answers?

@B33fy Impressive, but it also left the shadow of the left hand wire on the wall as well as totally changing the exposure and colour of everything else in the photo.

None so blind as those who cannot see or want to see any of the real issues at play, fine, if you want to be like of those rats that the pied piper of Hamelin lead away, thats up to you. Yes data is data, and the Titanic was also supposed to be unsinkable, but it did and with a massive loss of life. I wonder just how many of those poor people were on board that ship as opposed to any other ship, because of that claim. Was that data that they based the claim of it being unsinkable on, correct data, very obviously it not was it?

It would take a long long to charge a car from a 200w panel, so thats not an option, and putting a wind generator on one of those balconies or the roof and getting the cables the flats is going to be a an expensive problem in its own right and of course the building owners permission has to be gained, and then there is the additional problem of getting the cables from the said flats to the respective cars, problems, problems, not an ideal situation at all, try solving that problem with something like London's Landmark Pinnacle block of flats, 25 floors Amenities Overview | Landmark Pinnacle. Some do have underground parking spaces, many do not though, and it is more than likely that electric cars could be banned from using them if recent events are an indication and of course, they are already banned from entering any of the UK government's own car parks in and around Westminster. Seems that they only care about their own well-being, not ours despite the claims that the electric way is the only way to go and we should and will have to eventually go that way.

The other thing is of course the ability to be able to charge at home, be that with a granny cable or a dedicated charger, either way you need to get the power from your dwelling into your car and still and will be for a long to come, impossible to do. Now that could because not having a garage (not recommended to charge in them anyway), a drive or some way of getting a cable across the footpath via an approved and local authority system. Good luck if you live in a block of flats, be they high rise or other, they all pose major issues. Even then we will still suffer the problems of the "haves" and the "have nots" because of the situation with some of them using their own solar arrays, wind generators and maybe even home battery storage systems, all of which still give considerable advantages in the running costs of an electric car, so there will still be at best a 2 tier system, something does not happen with ICE cars.

Yes I have read the same but I seem to remember that it was having major safety concerns for one thing.

Food for thought. Electric Vehicle Fire on Sunday, September 15, 2024 in Carmel, Indiana.r 15, 2024 in Carmel, Indiana.

I wouldn't have expected anything different, clearly ICE will catch fire more than EV, ICE numbers are far greater than EVs, therefore have a far higher chance of catching fire, nobody is disputing that. ICE cars themselves go back decades and there are many examples of them in daily use that are decades older than EV's. To make a valid comparison, there needs to controlled experiments with similar numbers of both types. So lets go back 10 years, what electric cars were there then and how many, them millions more ICE cars that are 10 years old so yes, the chances of ICE fires in that age group would be many more times higher simply because of the sheer numbers involved. Even today, many more ICE cars are sold than electric cars and there are other factors at play. The one factor that only a fool would attempt to argue otherwise, is that if the traction HV battery is involved then that fire has suddenly become a real problem for the environment, is a lot harder to put out, burns far hotter and fiercer then a petrol or diesel car would burn if the fuel becomes involved, which often is not the case and a HV traction battery on fire is a hazmat situation and requires specialised handling etc. 34,000,000 cars in the UK, only 3.5% are pure electric, 1,200,000. How many EVs are there in the UK - EV market statistics 2024 - Zapmap (zap-map.com)

What is it that is claimed then?

It will only go one way in the long run, and that way is upwards, that's a given as long as it remains in private hands.

Once again, to coin a phrase that someone else has already used, this once again rings of the "haves" and "I'm alright Jack"

Every time you, well, all of us, we sent more money than ever winging its way overseas to sunny climes. It should be staying here and be recirculated in the British economy, again not of the current government's making, but helping with creation of the blackhole.

No we ICE drivers get paid in free time, far more valuable 😁

Ditto, last tank I did indeed manage to do 835 miles and refilled last night, out again today and currently on course for 845 miles to the tank. It is the town trips that cripple the range, so a PHEV is the ideal car as it maximises the range and meets tail pipe emissions in town.

Thing is if you can identify the oem you can save loads as the same part will often be used in other cars as well. Just buying the car maker, you will pay their premium as well.

At the moment, the way things are going, the only way you'll be able to buy a new car in the UK could be like the Tesla model, direct from the makers, dealers will become a thing of the past. That said, I really think the bubble is going to burst, and the whole net-zero thing will be scrapped and there will be legislation introduced to continue with ICE as an option but with a mandate to drive down the emissions, which was already happening in the first place. EVs will be just become an option that people can choose if they wish, and then market forces will prevail and the buying public will decide which option best suits their needs and ambitions.

Vag do not make these, they more than likely be Bosch with the VW logo stamped on them, and then they can charge you more for the item. This is standard practise in the motor industry, Ferrari for instance use many electronic parts like ABS units, ECU etc that are standard Volvo parts, with their own logos printed on them and a magnitude higher price to boot as well. If you can identify the original maker, then purchasing one of their units will save you many £s.

There were loads of discussion around EVs and how the dealers are going out of business through having to pre-register cars and then storing them and bringing them out again a few months or in some cases a year or 2 later and sell them as second hand, many of them with only around 11 miles on the clock. This is all because of the mandate to go all electric for new cars, which was bad enough when the date was 2035, and even worse now with the UK date of 2030 and the massive fines for each car that the makers have to pay for each car under their target. They are forcing dealers to take these cars, register them, store them and then sell at a loss in some cases as second hand cars and these dealers are really struggling to keep their heads above the water. They discussed how many of these YT presenters who were once TV presenters are just pushing the narrative all the time about how great EVs are and how wonderful the range of them is. That just reinforces my own feelings that these particular sites do in fact have some sort of vested interest in the continuing push of EVs by continually spreading misinformation. As was said in the video, they are just perfect for some people and if you have the means of home charging, and can manage to keep within the range of a home charge then they do become a "No Brainer" as they will save you lots of money in the long run which is what I and loads of others have said. It seems that @Stonekeeper was right, people will hear what they want to hear. Every time I fill my car with diesel, I reset the trip meter, as you can see from the photo I'm on course to do in the order of 880 miles to a single tank of fuel (66 litres) and I have been to Lakenheath, Mildenhall, Stansted, Duxford and Heathrow in the last 2 days covering 335 miles and still have 545 miles (62.5%) of range left before I need to recharge my tank. Obviously, it is not likely to achieve that if I do too many short city trips, which is the ideal scenario for EVs with a high level of regen being achieved. This is what EVs need to be capable of to lure those those without the home charging ability to consider an EV IMO.

Hyundai are offering "refreshed" secondhand BEV cars with a warranty on the battery pack of 100,000 miles or 5 years, which ever comes first.

@Stonekeeper Thanks for posting this, I was going to watch it later and not post it as I know that many will try and discredit the whole video, simply because of who it is, having already called him a EV hater, instead of seeing him for what he is, a person who dislikes all modern cars and loves the older Volvos. At the same time he does his best to highlight the dubious events that appear to be going on and takes on things that the national media avoid. It is always good to hear both sides of an argument and then form an opinion.

Always a good idea to do that test first for sure. I'm not sure why there is a resistance to fitting pattern parts for things like thermostats, there is a good chance that they would be identical to the OEM parts as it is highly likely the OEM part comes from the same factory as I doubt that Audi (VW) would actually be making their own thermostats.

To be fair, I think the problems in that video were made far worse than normal because of all the bad flooding etc that they have been experiencing, knocking out chargers and in some cases power lines as well. The whole point of posting that video was to illustrate what could happen in other places including here and also of course to show the real problem when you are relying on a single fuel source for everything, including buses, trains as well as road transport and industry etc. It just shows how vulnerable countries would be to a terrorist attack or even another country like Russia. They only have to knock out the main power stations and then the wind generators, extremely visible and then they could cripple a country almost overnight. Peoples home solar panels and storage batteries are never going to cut the mustard and keep the country going are they?

Good, I'm really glad that you are protected against cyberattack on your electricity supply, but the point about what is happening in China was to serve as an example of what I have been saying for a long time and that is for those who have the ability to charge at home, then that is a positive advantage, BUT there is a very large percentage of the population for whom that is impossible. Even here in my city, not only is a large housing stock made up of older houses which don't have that ability being ancient terrace type houses, where the even the average car is longer than the width of the houses, so making even street charging extremely difficult. There are also numerous blocks of flats already in existence and many more are being planned. For instance, we have a large shopping mall where there are plans to knock it down and redevelop the site to built shops with 537 flats above them and there is not a single parking space being allocated, and the existing multi story carpark and open plan carpark for the mall will also go and become part of this mixed purpose development. Currently there are many other planned sites across the city where car parks are going to be ripped up and smaller blocks of flats built again with zero consideration for parking so those people will effectively be barred from car ownership as the large part of the city is already a traffic free zone and pedestrianised. Anyone who does get themselves a car will have to park them on streets which are rammed with existing cars as more people are forced through economic pressures to living with parents, thus having multiple cars to many houses. The other thing that the China video IMV highlights the problem of having a massive reliance on the grids ability to supply enough power and when something happens to knock out that supply, the civilisation just grinds to a halt, including the public transport, buses, trains and the emergency response services, all of which would be reliant on electricity to be able to operate. The UKs 2022 petrol problems are not a patch on the problems that China is facing as you rightly said, EV cars with poor range, which is every EV car currently, none of them can match the capability of my car, to carry upto 5 adults of over 1.8 metres height, in comfort and have a range well in excess of 500 miles from a tank of fuel (66L) and I filled up Friday morning, and drove 179 miles and when I pulled up back at home that evening, the range on the trip computer was showing I had enough fuel left for 705 more miles making a total of 884 miles from that one tank of diesel if I was to continue driving in the manner I had been during that drive with speeds of upto 70mph on motorways, which EV car has self same capability? I don't need multiple trips to the fuel pump a day or weeks even. Edit/Update, Sunday 15/9 09:50am Just got back from a trip to Heathrow Terminal 5 and I'm still on course for 875 miles from the tank.

This is what is happening in China and there are other similar video reports about China who actively suppress reports of fires and other accidents such as bridge, building and even tunnel collapses etc. This report also mentions many residential buildings are not allowing electric cars to be parked in their car parks. It also claims (I can't read Chinese, so unable to confirm if the signs and text backs up the audio) that there is much corruption from so-called experts in electric cars, making claims that ICE vehicles catch fire far more than electric ones, similar claims are made everywhere to be fair, but I'm not totally convinced by these claims, and it seems that the Chinese citizens are not either.