Graham Butcher

This is a more informative view of the fire, and before everyone pours scorn on this without watching and paying attention to he says, he is not anti BEV at all, but he is anti rushing through the enforcement before we have learned enough and put mitigating routines in place to enhance safety and learned how to prevent such massive events from happening, He actually does make a lot of sense if only people will give him the chance to explain and not be so quick to rubbish anybody who dares to have a different point of view. There is still so much to learn about battery cars, I have no doubt that we will resolve many of these issues given time.

Yes it is the one, and there are many reports and videos of it and also a Kia 5 days later. The hopeless part, I think if you go back and read my post is "homeless".

I expect that he asked more because he was out of pocket rather than asking because of his constituents?

I could also give you an example of large scale hazmac with many people hospitalised and hundreds made homeless by an EV bursting into fire and it was not on charge and been parked for days, but so many EV people would find a way to rubbish it as always. I did predict this was going to happen and is one reason why HM Governement has placed a ban on EVs in their underground car parks. I dread to think what the consquences would be when BEVs form the majority of cars in car parks, the consequences of such an event like the I mention above setting off loads of BEV's into thermal runaway could possible kill all the occupants of the tower block above such an underground car park fire.

That extra 15% could be the difference maker for some.

@Winston_Woof watch this space as they say, the signs are looking likely that there will be a massive delay in the Zero Tailpipe emissions plan in the not so distant timeline. I always had my doubts about the speed of change from a tried and tested technology to a new and emerging one that we are not yet fully aware of all its pitfalls. Yes, there are many arguments for it on a pure local level, but there are other disadvantages, some known already, but many are prepared to sweep them under the carpet so to speak and label them as project fear all over again. It might help us all if we could all see our leaders all put their money where their mouth is and lead from the front, but when they are still going around in their far more polluting cars than most of ours are, you wonder why is that? I expect somebody will say it's because their cars are armoured and they of course need that protection, well if that is true now, it will also be true in 2030/35 when ever the date will be when the total ban on new ICE cars comes into force. My late father was a military man, and he always told me that the military had a motto about leading from the front, never ask / tell anyone to do something that you are not prepared to do yourself and the best way to prove that you are prepared to do it, is to be seen to be doing it for all to see.

So, sixty four thousand $ question, is anew PHEV destined for your next car? I must admit they do seem to make far better sense of things as you can switch to electric when in town/city traffic to help out with the perceived air quality and switch to petrol on the open road and also enjoy far more of that most valued commodity, time for yourself.

Oh dear, looking as if net-zero might well be derailed, who couldn't see this one coming given how secretive China is and the USA and indeed the UK are about them. Could this possibly be the reason why the world has gone EV crazy at any cost, could it be that China has been engaging with think tanks who write the government's policies around the world and possibly be the financial backer of such organizations such as WEF, IEA, C40 Cities etc??

But the real point is that it is not smaller less powerful cars that most sensible people drive, but the big fast cars that will be on your bumper and then zoom past and you will often catch them up at the next roundabout etc. Clearly showing that all of their massive nox and CO2 figures achieved them zero advantage but air quality suffered for nothing and we all get to breathe the same air.

But those figures both for nox and CO2 are nothing compared to larger 3 litre and above engines in large luxo barges, 4x4 and performance cars and those cars are increasing in numbers and the amount of fuel they consume can see mpg in single digits or at best around the sub 20mpg mark.

I'm beginning to think that ZEV mandate needs to be dropped all together, like Harry said, but however, I would go a stage further and limit the size of future ICE engines to help make the emissions even lower and as Harry pointed out, they are getting really low already and remove politics from the equation apart from giving the engineers some money injections to help with their research into smaller, more efficient powerful and low emission engines and then leave it to market forces to decide the future. There are way too many obstacles to overcome in too short a time frame to make it that an all electric new car market even by 2035 let alone 2030, which we are going to be an outlier if the Government decide to push that button. There is a place for electric cars in the world and if it suits you and you can actually make it work for you without a massive impact on your life, then go for them.

Very good and informative video from Harry's Garage.

When I started this topic back in April last year (2023), I just had a gut feeling that we were being ripped off big time by the insurance companies and now I have stumbled on something that also backs that feeling and this person in this video has done all the tests that shows this to be true and the very people who preside over everything and allowed this to continue is of course the last government here in the UK. If we all think about it, while they were on "watch" the premiums, along with almost everything else just took off like a skyrocket and there were excuses after excuses for everything going up, electric, gas, oil, price of cars, insurance etc etc. Watch the video, and then please sign the petition he has put together in order to get this discussed in the higher circles and lets see if can get a fairer deal for everyone, he needs at least 100,000 signatures to get this discussed at the level required and get an investigation going and hopefully some reform of the industry. Some of the discoveries made so far will amaze you and they actually use the legal system against us when it comes to getting insurance cover to be able to legally drive on the road. I suspect that if we can pull this off and get that investigation, that we see many of the existing well known names all involved on a global scale, and those might well be the same names that are telling us that we need to go electric and we need LEZ charges etc, and that might well be many of the think tanks that have been lobbying various governments around the world on behalf of their wealthy financiers because of corporate greed. We have nothing to lose by trying, so lets get this started.

I can't comment on what the practise is in the UK, I can't honestly say as I've ever witnessed an EV on fire other than on video,

so the fireman said in his video, that they should be escorted to the dump by a fire truck for safety.

There are a few models, certainly the new 2024 has it at the front, but I think after googling images, this one in the photo is a hybrid, so that could be either the fuel filler or the charge point flap.

These videos also cover the Korean fire, and then another one in Korea just a few days later.

I never mentioned that video by Geoff Buys Cars because of lack of supporting proof, unlike the John Cadogen video which contain the support, and what he said, is more than likely why the Government have placed a blanket ban of EV's in their underground car parks on government buildings. Why FFS have they only done that in their own buildings??? I did post a link to the UK Government statement banning EV cars in their underground car parks a few months back.

The insurance would not be paid on a PPM basis, I was talking about the pure ICE days when everyone was using petrol or diesel and thus paying fuel duty. A few more coppers on a gallon of fuel, could have been allocated towards the VED, so tax was being collected each time the vehicle was refuelled. The same could be done for insurance, but instead of having loads of companies doing it, it was a central company or the government. That way there could be no uninsured hit & run drivers, other than unqualified drivers or drivers driving a stolen vehicle, in which case the vehicle(s) would be covered and replaced/repaired, but the drivers of those vehicles would receive an automatic prison sentence.

Massive fire, injuries and people made homeless in South Korea.

You could well be right about the EV, but on the other hand, I would not put it past them to stick it on ICE as well and maybe scrap (in theory) the fuel duty. I'm surprised TBH that they didn't scrap the VED and also insurance, and put a few pence onto fuel duty so that untaxed and uninsured cars became a thing of the past so those who use the roads and drive the most miles would pay more, it would certainly remove any form evasion.

TBH, much the same thing could be said for anyone these days, especially the MSM and newspapers as all they care about is pandering to their viewers / paying customers, most of it is clickbait, in to retain their hold over them. I'm finding that you have to take a snippet from here and another from over there sort of thing to try and find some common ground that may be the truth or it may not, as always only time will tell, but this theory of PPM came about some time ago when the LEZ cameras were first introduced, not just in London but in many other cities and towns, then it was discovered that all of these places have links to the same international websites, all of which are backed by large corporations, then slowly evidence shows that the London Mayor is linked to them all and that TFL have been advertising for staff with experience of road charging systems and these jobs are not located in London, which is where you would expect TFL jobs to be based, not based in some of the other places that have LEZ in place or planning one. So piecing all the snippets together suggests that there may be some mileage in the notion? We have all of these lobby groups around the world, all with impressive and official sounding names, all lobbying on behalf of either their own or those with vested interests in certain outcomes, C40 Cities, WEF, ERG, IEA and numerous others, all seem to be interwoven with other affiliated groups. Was it not ideas from the IEA and WEF put forward to the short-lived PM often associated with a lettuce, that the PM and the Chancellor implemented and instantly wrecked the UK economy?

Maybe the cameras will do multiple functions?

Have you noticed these new cameras springing up all over the place, which currently are totally unexplained as to what they are for. I reported a while back about the possibilities the LEZ and the ULEZ cameras could just be a trojan horse for now and be incorporated / morphed into becoming part of the "Pay per mile" system that has been widely reported by many of the YT motoring channels and some even thought that it was a conspiracy theory and nothing else, but is it? They seem to be appearing on the roads into and out of towns and villages at present, so they could be part of a high-tech speed camera system, capable of measuring the speed of cars that are just passing through and issuing fines for those speeding, or they could be tracking cars and calculating the cost of the total journey based on the distance covered from the first camera that picked up your registration plate and the last camera to do so? What are your thoughts on what they are for?

The other points you raised, I'm not wasting my time responding because it will drag on again. However, on the above point, there is always a risk, I should know that better than you, have worked on the technical side of things with large electrical manufacturing companies making safety devices, they can and do fail, and it is perfectly feasible and possible to fail in an unsafe mode.