I hear what you’re saying but suggesting that the necessary measures are already in place and all that’s needed to improve driving standards is a chang in driving culture and positive driver attitudes is more laughable than a draconian testing regime. That’s as serious a suggestion as the prime minister telling us to beat inflation by not throwing away food or the head of Eon telling old people and the poor to put an extra jumper on because he’s putting the price of his gas up, oh, wait :eek:

I can’t see any improvement happening unless there are large penalties/obstructions put in the way of driving badly. Changing people’s perception of driving being a right to being a privilege, change perceptions of driving is not something you need to concentrate on, the perception that once you qualify you never have to worry about your driving standard again. That’s before you consider applying the knowledge in the highway code, to which I am confident that most drivers remember little and I count myself in that.

From my soapbox, I think that getting a big stick, failing a minority of existing drviers and making new drivers pass far harder tests is the best solution. Although I did say it was unworkable in my first post Licence enforcment would be a nightmare, Paperz Pleeze!

Rob, from memory, you know Manchester and you’ve had something to do with driving examining? :confused: Whally Range test centre and a leisurely afternoon drive round the Range, Chorlton, Moss Side, Old Trafford and Fallowfield. Do you honestly think that’s an adequate test of a candidates driving ability in all conditions? And if you make the new test different/harder as they have done in recent years why should existing drivers be exempt?

Or am I completely wrong on my 2 assumptions above?

Rob, from memory, you know Manchester and you’ve had something to do with driving examining? :confused:

Moved to Manchester from the south when I was 18 (already had a driving licence) and the closest I got to driving examination was going to the Driving College to see what it would take to become an Instructor.

I think it would be quite tricky to cover all conditions in a single test in most geographical locations. For example, round where I learnt, there were loads of 2- and 3-lane A roads which learners could travel on at 70mph. Thinking round here/Manchester, I can't think of any comparable roads as they're all M-roads.

By contrast though, I bet a leisurely afternoon drive round Manchester is a good test on your ability to drive in a city/with female student distraction, neither of which were present during my test.

So...you can extend the test to cover more areas, make it longer and be less forgiving of errors - but you'll still not get around the issue that people will still be learning to pass a test. And even with a test every 5 years, people will still be driving to pass a test - just as people drive slowly/properly when there's a police car amongst the traffic.

Rob.

But thern most people would drive like angels for their test then drive like an imbecile afterwards.

But thern most people would drive like angels for their test then drive like an imbecile afterwards.

Correct, drive like a saint for one day, drive like a **** for 1825 days till retest. Make it hard and the consequences bad and maybe people will change their attitudes, take driving seriously and then drive properly more of the time.

Me and Decron are clearly Hang 'em/Flog 'em types and Rob and Ken are tree-hugging, happy clappy, therapy & rehabilitation types. Neither will work but maybe therapy would be a cheaper failure.

My preferred method of improving driving/traffic control is still helicopter gunships with a minimum kill quota. Would certainly sort out congestion.

Me and Decron are clearly Hang 'em/Flog 'em types and Rob and Ken are tree-hugging, happy clappy, therapy & rehabilitation types. Neither will work but maybe therapy would be a cheaper failure.

I believe I may have given you the wrong impression. I'm not against retesting because I want people to be able to express themselves creatively on the road, just that I don't think it'll cull enough people!

Rob.

just that I don't think it'll cull enough people!

Apaches it is then

I think it's much different, in fact the problem on the motorways is most people think in terms of two lanes + one for slow vehicles which is why you get everyone jammed in the middle lane.

I'd be interested to see such a survey? Perhaps we should have a driver happiness survey, like the jd power ones, or the crime surveys - Qu - how many times have you been cut-up or had to take evasive actions this week...

Due to the large number of people who drive like "middle lane muppets", perhaps they don't want stuck in the inside lane, unable to escape into the traffic flow which gets me onto my next point.

I did notice the further south (all the way to Portsmouth) I went last week the less people let you change lanes, had me cursing quite a few times, whereas up here, signal and you shall generally be let in, in southern regions, indicate and the space gets smaller. People tended just to indicate and pull out forcing the L3 cars to slow from 70+ to 60. Not very smooth

Everyone seems in such a rush to get to the next traffic jam, and yes i sat in the inside lane at c50 mph and was making much better progress than those in L2 and L3.

Few more examples to add:

- 4x4 / pickup driver mobile phone in left hand having a convo while going along the outside lane of the M27 at 90+

- Cossie this morning (very nice and quick I'll add) but straight over the hatchings at the end of the slip road at high speed, showering a load of stones up into the rest of us cars on the sliproad and cracking a windscreen and chipping mine.

- The 50mph in the central lane brigade on the M27 when the inside is free for miles.

This are all in the last 24 hours and just the three i remember. A traffic copper may have been able to do something if they were still around in sufficient numbers.

Traffic cops pffft never see them in the mornings when its busy.

:rofl: you don,t see them but iam sure they see you very briefly.