i'm fuming - cam belt problem

[KenONeill]

:iagree:

[brookieme]

Hi there,

As said by Lummox and Ric, if a skoda franchised dealer has fitted a genuine part to your car and you have an invoice they have to give the 12 months skoda parts warranty.

Since they say this has failed I'd get it in writing from them on headed paper and then contact Skopda UK with a copy of the invoice and the letter asking why their main dealer won't honour their 12 months parts warranty.

The dealer telling you there is no warranty either doesn't know what they are talking about or is deliberately lying to you. I have had a part replaced under this warranty in the not too distant past due to a faulty part.

I'd almost say it sounds like they are getting very desperate to shift some cars.

You may be right.TODAY THEY ARE SAYING: the stud that did the damage wasn't under warranty. The engine that is ruined is not under warranty BUT the cam belt could possibly be under warranty BUT WHAT GOOD IS THAT WITHOUT A NEW ENGINE.mad: Edited 23 July, 2008 by brookieme

[Kandy]

What are they saying broke exactly - I'm not quite clear?

Either they fitted a full cambelt kit including tensioner/pulleys or they didn't. The bolts that secure the pulleys are 'use once' aren't they? So should have been new too - if they reused a bolt they are to blame - if a new bolt broke it was faulty or overtightened.

Whatever you should not meet the cost.

I think you need an independent engineers report ASAP before the evidence vanishes.

[KenONeill]

Basis of UK Consumer Rights law - the ultimate vendor (in this case the garage) must replace or repair any new parts that fail within a reasonable time of sale (which is way more than 3 months; in fact based on SUK recommendations, I think 4 years or 40_000 miles is reasonable), and repair any consequent damage from that failure. Where labour is involved, they must also take reasonable care and carry out the work to a reasonable standard.

So from that, if the failed stud should have been replaced or inspected as part of the cambelt change, they don't have a leg to stand on (I'd trust Lummox's judgement here; he's a time-served and trained VAG mechanic). Even if the stud does not require replacement, if it was obvious, say due to corrosion, that it should have been replaced, the duty of care still applies.

[cheezemonkhai]

If they claim to have fitted a whole kit it would include that part and as such it's either a faulty part (skoda parts pick up the bill I guess) or a labour fault or not fitting the part they said (The dealer picks up the bill).

It is 100% not you and I'd get an AA inspection done on the car before you go away. They can come to the garage and do the inspection there and while it will cost you you could then sue the dealer for this cost if they refuse to pay it.

Regardless of what they say, the skoda 12 month warranty covers parts failures and damage caused by the failure of these parts. It also covers the labour as all dealer people should be fully trained for the job.

So you should get a new/rebuilt engine, with a new cambelt at the skoda dealers cost, which they then claim back from skoda UK.

The stud is part of the tensioner which is part of the cambelt kit which they claimed.

Even if there wasn't a warrenty, which there is, you should have reasonable ground to take legal action against them as the part should have been changed and you paid for it.

Contact Skoda customer care on the phone about it:

Škoda Customer Services - 08457 745 745.

They will be able to deal with the dealer. Also point out that you expect the warranty to be honoured and politely point out that you feel if this is not resolved to your satisfaction you feel that legal action will be your only option and you will have to contact a solicitor.

If you bought the car new from that dealer then it either isn't fit for purpose if the part isn't one that they change (4 years for an engine is stupidly short) or they should have changed it when doing the belt.

Every way you look at it the dealer/skoda should pay.

If you have no joy with skoda get the car taken back to your home and leave it there for the AA to come and inspect it or have it taken to a VAT registered garage who will inspect it for you. You will need the independent inspection and as much other evidence such as a copy of the form the breakdown people give youif you wish to take legal action.

[brookieme]

If they claim to have fitted a whole kit it would include that part and as such it's either a faulty part (skoda parts pick up the bill I guess) or a labour fault or not fitting the part they said (The dealer picks up the bill).

It is 100% not you and I'd get an AA inspection done on the car before you go away. They can come to the garage and do the inspection there and while it will cost you you could then sue the dealer for this cost if they refuse to pay it.

Regardless of what they say, the skoda 12 month warranty covers parts failures and damage caused by the failure of these parts. It also covers the labour as all dealer people should be fully trained for the job.

So you should get a new/rebuilt engine, with a new cambelt at the skoda dealers cost, which they then claim back from skoda UK.

The stud is part of the tensioner which is part of the cambelt kit which they claimed.

Even if there wasn't a warrenty, which there is, you should have reasonable ground to take legal action against them as the part should have been changed and you paid for it.

Contact Skoda customer care on the phone about it:

Škoda Customer Services - 08457 745 745.

They will be able to deal with the dealer. Also point out that you expect the warranty to be honoured and politely point out that you feel if this is not resolved to your satisfaction you feel that legal action will be your only option and you will have to contact a solicitor.

If you bought the car new from that dealer then it either isn't fit for purpose if the part isn't one that they change (4 years for an engine is stupidly short) or they should have changed it when doing the belt.

Every way you look at it the dealer/skoda should pay.

If you have no joy with skoda get the car taken back to your home and leave it there for the AA to come and inspect it or have it taken to a VAT registered garage who will inspect it for you. You will need the independent inspection and as much other evidence such as a copy of the form the breakdown people give youif you wish to take legal action.

Thank you for all the help and guidance. The car will have to stay where it is I'm afraid we just haven't time to get it moved now. Hopefully they will not touch it till we get back. They say the stud which was the cause is not changed when the cam belt is fitted. The stud is not part of the cam belt kit.

The stud being the large metal prong that the cam belt fits on i think.:confused:

[expostmanpat]

They say the stud which was the cause is not changed when the cam belt is fitted.

In which case you should argue that it is a non-servicable part that should last the lifetime of the car, and as such must have been subject to either a manufacturing fault (in which case sale of goods act/fit for purpose may come into play) OR they did something whilst replacing the cam belt to damage the stud and result in its failure. Either way they or suk should foot the bill

[Tech1e]

What are they saying broke exactly - I'm not quite clear?

Either they fitted a full cambelt kit including tensioner/pulleys or they didn't. The bolts that secure the pulleys are 'use once' aren't they? So should have been new too - if they reused a bolt they are to blame - if a new bolt broke it was faulty or overtightened.

Whatever you should not meet the cost.

I think you need an independent engineers report ASAP before the evidence vanishes.

This is where they may have a case, but its very shakey ground if they have. When you buy a cambelt kit you get a new cambelt, tensioner, rollers and nuts. The studs that the rollers sit over aren't replaced, so technically no part that they have replaced has failed. However by virtue that they have replaced a tensioner then they have undone and replaced the nut on that stud so they have been in contact with it, also if said nutwas over tightened it could have damaged the stud.

[KenONeill]

I have, once seen a stud fail without being over-tightened. It was a head stud, and the guy who owned the car had been changing head gaskets but not studs something like every other week for several months when it went. Enough said on that one?

[Tech1e]

The reason VW orginally recalled the sud was it was threaded all the way along. Obviously a threded section is weaker and they were breaking. Later revised studs are just threaded a little at the end where it screws into the head and a little at the end where the nut goes on if that makes sense.

[rotodiesel]

I have just changed a cambelt and tensioner on an old Passat 1.8 petrol (ABS engine). The kit included a Dayco belt, INA metal tensioner wheel to replace the crappy plastic FAG unit which VAG fit as OE and a stud, nut and wavy washer.

The stud is M10 on this engine and is not going to break if it's screwed up properly. I did fit the new one with a drop of locking compound where it screws into the block, but it was really a waste of time - the old one was absolutely perfect with a plain mid-section as Lummox describes.

As far as I can see, if the failed engine shares this set-up, there is no way this stud could ever break unless the nut was left either very loose, or very much over tight. Bad workmanship, I think.

rotodiesel.

[cheezemonkhai]

I tend to agree.

Even if they didn't damage it, then the stud should be expected to last more than 4 years and the car was unfit for purpose at point of sale due to a manufacturing defect.

So they can either say that, at which point the dealer is blaming skoda, or they didn't do the stud/nut up properly, at which point it is their fault.

As postman pat stated, there is no way you should be picking up the tab and I'd think that skoda customer services should agree with you.

If the garage still refuses to help, then I would have the car recovered to your place and get legal on them I'm afraid.

[cheezemonkhai]

Do let us all know how you get on when you get back from holiday

[brookieme]

Do let us all know how you get on when you get back from holiday

:)Hi everyone........Back from our hols nicely tanned and raring to go on Skoda cam belt saga.

We went into the dealer this morning to discuss things..... They are saying nothings changed. The service manager was very sheepish. He said we need to have an independant to look at the car and he knows just the man who can do that. i refused that offer saying i don't think so, we will get our own thank you very much. I am afraid I lost my temper slightly. My issue is: Doesn't matter what happened to the car on the day it broke down. My issue is: we took the car back in to the dealer after the belt was fitted to say the car had problems, describing the problem to them. they took it on a test drive said nothing was wrong and sent us on our way. If they had looked into the problems we described further and sorted them we wouldn't have a car that had major problems 2 months down the line. i rest my case. i want them to admit to this.

I have rung Skoda customer services today and they were really good about it. they are now doing there own investigation and have told us to wait until we hear from them. Fingers crossed they will sort it out. the car is still at the dealers.

Hope to hear some encouraging messages from you all.

Sue

[Cliveski]

When I had my cambelt done I checked that my "stretch bolts" would be done too - not sure what they are to be honest but had read somewhere they should be changed at the same time.

Like the waterpump I'm not sure Skoda say they need doing but beleive it's wise to do so.

If you have had your car serviced with them all it's life (and have bought another car from them recently) I think they will make a goodwill gesture. Out of interest - was this your car's first or second cambelt change? as on mileage you should have had it changed at least once before . . . . .

[Babs]

Out of interest - was this your car's first or second cambelt change? as on mileage you should have had it changed at least once before . . . . .

That's what I was thinking...

[brookieme]

When I had my cambelt done I checked that my "stretch bolts" would be done too - not sure what they are to be honest but had read somewhere they should be changed at the same time.

Like the waterpump I'm not sure Skoda say they need doing but beleive it's wise to do so.

If you have had your car serviced with them all it's life (and have bought another car from them recently) I think they will make a goodwill gesture. Out of interest - was this your car's first or second cambelt change? as on mileage you should have had it changed at least once before . . . . .

Hi there,

thanks for the note. It was our first cam belt. They should have done it apparently at 60.000 but it was over looked by them and picked up at 80.000 service. No probs with the late and extra mileage we did in the car. the over looked cam belt was also there fault too. We are not mechanics they are so we didn't know.

Sue

[Taxi 219]

Did you get a case number from SUK? they usually give out one as i had one once with a claim through them.

Good luck and keep the pressure on

[moley]

Can the dealer be sure that the stud broke first causing the problem or did something else fail causing the stud to break? A few years back I started to have starting and running problems with a mondeo diesel, before I got to the garage the motor stopped. The tensioner broke up causing the belt to go slack, the valves said hello to the pistons & the motor stopped. The belt did not break, but stripped a dozen of the teeth off. The engine damage was bent valves & a three piece camshaft. The poor running was due to incorrect or variable tension of the belt. Lummox is spot on when he said that if the belt was not aligned corrrectly you would know straight away.

The stud might not be covered by the warranty, but it was OK until the new kit was fitted. I hope the dealer sorts the problem out like he knows he should.

[brookieme]

Did you get a case number from SUK? they usually give out one as i had one once with a claim through them.

Good luck and keep the pressure on

Hi there,

not got a case number as yet but maybe when they ring back after investigating I will get one.

:thumbup:thanks

[brookieme]

Can the dealer be sure that the stud broke first causing the problem or did something else fail causing the stud to break? A few years back I started to have starting and running problems with a mondeo diesel, before I got to the garage the motor stopped. The tensioner broke up causing the belt to go slack, the valves said hello to the pistons & the motor stopped. The belt did not break, but stripped a dozen of the teeth off. The engine damage was bent valves & a three piece camshaft. The poor running was due to incorrect or variable tension of the belt. Lummox is spot on when he said that if the belt was not aligned corrrectly you would know straight away.

The stud might not be covered by the warranty, but it was OK until the new kit was fitted. I hope the dealer sorts the problem out like he knows he should.

Thanks for that. Spot on they know the car was great and had no probs until the cam belt was fitted. we want them to own up admit it has to be something they have done and put it all right. to think they also had us do an other 20.000 as the cam belt should have been fitted at 60.000 miles but they overlooked that too. :eek:Do you know that car looks like new too as we really looked after it.

[brookieme]

This is where they may have a case, but its very shakey ground if they have. When you buy a cambelt kit you get a new cambelt, tensioner, rollers and nuts. The studs that the rollers sit over aren't replaced, so technically no part that they have replaced has failed. However by virtue that they have replaced a tensioner then they have undone and replaced the nut on that stud so they have been in contact with it, also if said nutwas over tightened it could have damaged the stud.

Hi there Lummox,

Still fighting our corner with the fabia:mad:the dealers are saying now they need to strip the fabia and find out the exact cause of the problem. They said monday we need it to be looked at by an independent person to see what they thought and he (service manager)said he knew just the person to do that for us. I said i don't think so. If we have an independent person look at the car then it would be our choosing not there's. I told them that we would not have such a major problem with the car if they had picked up on a problem when we took it in shortly after the new cam belt was fitted. I am afraid i walked out of the showroom absolutely disgusted without sorting anything out. I have since rung Skoda customer service and talked with a lady called Maureen there. Explained everything and she will get back to us by Tuesday. Can't believe we are being treated like this. Our Skoda has full service history since we bought it from new. We have had no problems with it till this. We also have another skoda bought from them three years ago which I use. (fabia 1.4) And now we have an Octavia 1.9 petrol which we had to rush into and buy to take us and our caravan on holiday because of this incident. Why can't they just admit they made a mistake own up and sort our car out. We have been the perfect customers up to now.

I wondered Lummox if you could ring Skoda Customer services on our behalf and speak to Maureen for me. Our name is Brooke. We don't know what else to do as yet.

Regards

Sue

[Captain Sisko]

Thanks for that. Spot on they know the car was great and had no probs until the cam belt was fitted. we want them to own up admit it has to be something they have done and put it all right. to think they also had us do an other 20.000 as the cam belt should have been fitted at 60.000 miles but they overlooked that too. :eek:Do you know that car looks like new too as we really looked after it.

Some dealers leave the servicing and manintenance for the owner to discover. Others do the work and leave owners with a bit of a bill.

When my Dad bought our older Astra from a main dealer (but not a vauxhall dealer) I had to read the handbook for belt change intervals and servicing.

Although when it did go in servicing they did ask if the cambelt was changed, had that done privately as it was expensive at a dealer!

I had to read all that when I bought my Felicia too not through a dealer though.

Have you wrote in to Skoda and the dealer HO explaining your situation?

I think I would be very p'eed off if I was in your situation too.

A well maintained car, cambelt fails with no-one accepting any form of liability

I was annoyed at one garage back when I still had the Astra. A mechanic thought I was putting water into my brake fluid :eek: when I went asking for the master cylinder to be changed.

Needless to say I didn't take my car back there again but obviously you don't have that luxury unless someone can move the car for you.

[TeflonTom]

my thoughts on this...

did the belt break or did it just jump off the pulley??

has the new tensioner seized up or does it still turn??

it takes an aweful lot of force to shear a stud so i'm guessing maybe the tensioner seized up causing the stud to break due to the shock loading

[Ricko]

I suppose it's possible the "skilled mechanic" damaged the stud in the process of removing the old parts or fitting the new ones ?