Just a short question for Dutch4x4 I guess but if anyone else knows any help / advice appreciated.

Im going to Holland for a Hockey Tour in early June and was going to take the RS but then I remembered Dutch4x4 had mentioned problems with speed bumps and the front spoiler on the RS :( . Is this problem all over Holland and is it a real issue or can you get over them ok as long as you slow down properly? I am going to be primarily based in Breda but will probably also travel on for a week around Tilburg, Eindhoven, Den Bosch and maybe up to Rotterdam.

Please tell me it will be ok - don't want to have to go over there in the wife's Ibiza :p

I've driven in Holland many times (mainly motorways to and from and local mileage in Nijmegen) and never saw a speed bump yet. I can only assume they're mainly in residential areas, but of course Dutch4x4 is the man to advise us.

Ahoj,

I lived in Amsterdam for a couple of years, yes the residential areas are generally crawling with sleeping policeman. At the time I was driving an old Favorit, so how they "impact" upon your RS - I have no idea (the pun was intended). All I can suggest take care - but Dutch 4x4 is the man for more detailed advice.

All I will say is - watch out for those bloody bicycle's, they get every where...

oh - and its fair game to shoot the amber light over there, so watch those crossings...

Have fun...

John, Dutch,

What do those "dragon's teeth" marks on the road mean? Instead of a broken line across a junction in front of you they will have a series of triangles pointing towards you. Never managed to find out if they meant "stop", "Give way" or something else. (Yes I know I should have asked a Dutch driver - never remembered at the right moment).

Yeah - I think I know the things you mean (at most small junctions in towns etc) - ive never worked it out either and just crawl over them slowly looking all ways very carefully. There is some rule as I have been flashed by someone who I was waiting for at one of the crossroads who obviously knew that it was my right of way :confused:

I actually find driving in Holland pretty easy - road users generally are a bit more considerate that in England (although I haven't tried Amsterdam yet!) and the only concern is keeping an eye out for those cycles - you cross one of them and the looks you get could kill :eek:

Agree on the cycles - they're maniacs!! And they certainly know what their rights are - even if you don't - and take full advantage of that fact As a pedestrian they're even more lethal :eek:

Any thoughts on Trams

LOL! Never had to drive in Amsterdam but my observations as a pedestrian suggested that they DON'T STOP or slow down for cars. Driver beware!!

I drove through Holland and was warned by people in Germany, NOT to break the speed limit on the Dutch roads. Apparently the police over there can pull you over, arrest you and put you in the cells overnight (which would scare the **** out of me) and impound your car. Most of the dutch motorways are limited to 130 kmh which is only a little bit over 70mph, so if you're driving an RS, it would be wise to watch the speed. I kept to the limit in Holland, and as soon as I got to the German border... VROOOOOM, up to over 100 again - as one should on autobahns with no limits.

Okay, guys, all in one go!

Stu: by your description of places to stay it looks like you will be doing motorways most of the time, so no trouble there. It's usually the residential areas that have speed bumps all over. They come in all shapes and sizes, so there's no telling which ones you will encounter on you way to and from the motorway. For instance, in one area of Amsterdam they are really steep and go all across the road - you need walking pace to clear those - while in other parts of Amsterdam they are more like humps that can be taken with 35mph if your car has a wide enough track...

Don't know about the situation in Brabant (province that includes the towns you mention), though. Perhaps our new member Luciano (who lives in the most southern province of Limburg) could tell you more about that.

In all, I'd say don't worry, take your finest wheels and show us what you are made of. And drive carefully

John: yes, red is stop, green is go, orange is pedal-to-the-metal!

Nick: dragon's teeth? They're the painted equivalent of a Give Way sign. So you'd better heed THE TEETH... (We call them "shark's teeth", by the way.)

All: driving in Amsterdam is no problem at all - the only problem is getting stuck on the canals or other non-connecting through roads. It's cramped everywhere. When someone is moving house or delivering supplies they will just put their trucks on the road - there's no other way! It's impossible to park anywhere. Otherwise, it's actually much better and more laid-back than other European capitols. That's because it's just a large village, really. A very cosmopolitan large village, yes, but still a village in size.

It's our motorway behaviour that you should be wary of, as the motorways (in the busy West of the country at least) are generally too crowded for people to be nice to each other, let alone give each some space. And yet we all want to be in the fast lane. So be prepared to travel at close distance at pretty high speeds - use all your instincts to look further ahead than two or three cars in front of you. Head-to-tail accidents in the fast lane are very common in the Netherlands, and will immediately cause huge traffic jams behind them.

As for the bikes - you're right, none of the rules apply to them, especially in Amsterdam, and it's all tolerated (we are very good at that). And you'd better beware, as Dutch road law will nonetheless always lay the (insurance) blame with the motor car in case of an accident. So always look in your side mirrors in a residential area. These days, there are special bicycle lanes almost everywhere, though, but you still need to be careful, as these special lanes also need getting used to.

As for me driving in the UK - I have always found it a relaxing experience. So much space! But then the M25 (a stroll compared to the Amsterdam ring) is the closest I have come to London.

Oops, more posts as I was writing!

Manny, Nick: trams won't stop because you must! There's a special rule in the traffic code that will give trams priority of way in almost all situations.

Oh, and you wouldn't want to see the result if a tram hits you sideways. It's a pretty devastating sight.

devonutopia: the motorway speed limit is actually 120kph, and 100kph in places where the signs will tell you so (big "100" signs on motorway entry and small "100" plates on the middle armco next to the fast lane, every 100m, so you can never say that you didn't know). The B road speed limit is 80kph, the town limit is 50kph.

It's wise to stick to the speed limits, yes, but impounding your car will only happen if you go over 50% faster, i.e. 181kph on a 120 motorway, or 75kph in town (which is more likely to happen). Below that, and you will just have to fork out huge amounts of money when stopped. I believe it's three euros per kph these days, on top of a basic fine of 30 euros. If you don't carry that amount of money, it does happen that you, as a foreigner, will be escorted to a police station to arrange immediate payment there, which will need some phone calls to the home country... Dutch drivers will get off the hook with a notice and can pay when at home.

Is this likely to happen? Well, no. Most of our speed control is done through Gatsos (the brilliant invention of our former rally god) or laser guns, with the result that you get a fine sent home many months later. I don't know whether these fines are actually able to cross the Channel, and if they do, whether your local constabulary will help collecting them (which I doubt).

The only real danger is being followed by an unmarked police car with video equipment on board to prove that you travelled at great speed. You can easily spot these in your rear mirror through being brand-new most of the time, with two people in the front seat and cameras and equipment dangling below the rear-view mirror! If you slow down quickly enough, they won't have had sufficient time to clock a representative average speed.

My motorway cruise speed is 140-150kph, and I've never ever received a fine for that. Did fall into a couple of laser traps around town, and then it's frustating to be fined excessively for driving at 56kph...

Cheers Mattijs - was worried about the residential areas as I can remember that there were a lot of bumps when I was in Eindhoven last year but then had a car which was much higher (and no spoiler!). Will take the RS and go very slowly over them :langel:

Well, I guess my stint through Holland was quite brief so my knowledge of the speed limit could have been a sign in France for all I know, and I never left the motorway... One thing I do remember vividly is driving on shocking Belgian roads (cracked,lumpy) and then crossing into Holland and right on the border the road went from crap, to perfect, in an instant. Something made me think the Dutch possibly have more money to upkeep their roads...? I doubt I'll be driving there again anyway, it was my last German relative's funeral that I was driving to.

I remember seeing a police....stop....camera type programe a few weeks ago, and it showed a Dutch speeding camera. It was covertly hidden inside a wheelie bin on the side of the road!!!

Originally posted by devonutopia in this post

One thing I do remember vividly is driving on shocking Belgian roads (cracked,lumpy) and then crossing into Holland and right on the border the road went from crap, to perfect, in an instant. Something made me think the Dutch possibly have more money to upkeep their roads...? I doubt I'll be driving there again anyway, it was my last German relative's funeral that I was driving to.

It's what the Belgians hate us for - we're soooo well-organized.

Conversely, the Belgian public sector is a shambles. It's not just the roads, it's also the road signs - the worst maintained and ugliest in Europe - it's, well, everything outside the realm of private entrepreneurship.

The upside of that is that Belgium has a lot less rules, and as a consequence, a lot less silly rules. For one, you have more freedom to build your own house - and the Belgiums will build little castles when given half the chance - instead of the clean-cut, straight-lined Dutch housing projects where you have to ask permission to remove a tree from your own garden. It's another difference between Holland and Belgium that you'll spot immediately when crossing borders.

It's not a question of money - it's priorities. Belgian income tax is much lower than ours, and so Belgium has a lot less to spend on national and social infrastructure. They could impose higher taxes but Belgians prefer their castles and big cars, and apparently will gladly take the risk of losing over half their income when they incur a work-related disability or plainly lose their jobs. Also, the environment suffers a lot more in Belgium, with garbage dumped everywhere. If it isn't in your backyard, who cares? And you will have noticed that Belgian cities are dirty everywhere but the tourist sectors. Again, if it's not your property, why keep it clean?

To sum up, the Belgian mentality is a bit like "if it's isn't completely broken, why fix it?".

A couple of weeks ago I drove from France to Germany on the E40 and I must say the quality of the belgian roads is terrible, especially after I left the E40 (that was quiet bad) near Eupen and headed towards the german border. I am sure that road from the other side of Eupen to the border is a suspension testing facility. Pot holes, ruts and missing tarmac along the verge. Everything going through was driving down the centre of the road only moving over when required to avoid a headon crash. and it goes on like this for nearly 20 kms. As soon as you cross the border into Germany it becomes strangley smooth.

Ah, that would have been on your way to the 'Ring...

I know that stretch of road - it's the arrow-straight road through the forest to Monschau in the North Eifel. You're right, it's absolutely terrible, even amounting to disgraceful, but I'm afraid that's the usual Ardennes standard... (4WD is of excellent use on our Ardennes trips!)

To their excuse the frequent rain and freezing winter temperatures lead to numerous road break-ups every year, and it seems the Belgians have simply given up on repairs during the summer period, over and over again.

Still, hasn't stopped the Germans from keeping the Eifel roads as smooth as anything seen in Holland - and the Eifel and the Ardennes are geological and meteorological twins.

Originally posted by Dutch4x4 in this post

Ah, that would have been on your way to the 'Ring...

I know that stretch of road - it's the arrow-straight road through the forest to Monschau in the North Eifel.

Yep, thats the one. I was quiet suprised to see a team of german workers renewing the tarmac on the bendy section that goes down to the roundabout just outside Monschau, and even more amazed when a couple of days later going the other way they had finished and gone.

So do they still use Gatsos in the Netherlands? There seems to be a fair bit of public opposition to them. They even have a "club", with its own website. I think we need something similar

Must say I like driving on the continent. Seems so much better disciplined than here, especially on the motorways. Round towns, well its pretty much of a muchness.

Which way do you go Manny? I don't think I've been down that way, I just have one bad bit of motorway just past Spa down the A27 and that's it.

One thing I do find slightly wierd is that most motorways have 2 numbers.

Jon,

I just leave calais towards dunkirk and stay on the E40 (which is actually 3 different A roads) all the way to exit 38. The E40 tarmac in places is really bad. Even managed some nice big stone damage on the bonnet/screen on the last trip. I think it takes me about 4 1/2 hrs to the german border. not going to quickly to save fuel.

I noticed that the belgian's like there discreet speed traps to. Whilst driving down last time saw some cars parked in weird positions including the central reservation. As we came across these everyone planted feet on brakes, the reason soon became clear. Gatso's.

Originally posted by mannyo in this post

I just leave calais towards dunkirk and stay on the E40 (which is actually 3 different A roads) all the way to exit 38.

Yes, many European motorways have two numbers, including the British ones: the country's own M or A number, and the European E number. It's just that the British choose not to put the E numbers up, whereas on the continent we do. However, most countries only place small E signs and give their own system priority.

But (again) the Belgians are weird in that - they give priority to the E number, with small A signs at the side of the road. Only motorways not part of the E routes get a "big" A number, like the A27. It that because they feel they are the capital of Europe?

Some ten to fifteen years ago, it cost them, as the E routes were renumbered all over, forcing them to sticker over all the old numbers...