Ahhhh you didn't say that you were comparing it against a NIkon SLR - that explains why you found it difficult to tell the difference. :eek:

Tsk Tsk

I think this should be moved to the 'Fight in progress' section.

The new Canon 50D is about to be launched with 15 Zillion Pixels!!!! ISO 128K (or something that sounds silly on a small sensor) and Digic 4. I wonder if it will be any good in low light.

I need a 70-200mm L lens I think and a Grahams 500mm prime that he promised me and then I will be happy

Well, perhaps I join this thread at a late moment... (EDIT: and at the end of an argument... )

I've got a Canon 30D and I love it. My only criticism is my hatred of auto focus and the poor quality of Canon lenses.

My other cameras? Old Minolta XE-1 and XG-2, soon to be joined by a Mamiya RZ67

I've got a Canon 30D and I love it. My only criticism is my hatred of auto focus and the poor quality of Canon lenses.

As opposed to which lenses? And which Canon lenses are you referring to?

As opposed to which lenses? And which Canon lenses are you referring to?

Tameron, Sigma, etc. Not the optics I have to add, more the "feel" of the lens and the general build quality. I've noticed that the AF motors on the non-USM lenses are a bit loud and slow.

The only Canon lenses I've got are the OE 17-35mm (off the top of my head) and a 35-80mm USM.

Does that help? I'll post more information later when I get home...

Ahh, ok. I'd agree that the feel on my Tamron is much better than the OE 17-55. Then again my Tamron focussing is also loud enough to scare small children. But the higher class Canon lenses are, well, just that. A higher class. Try out a Canon 'L' lens and you'll see the difference. Just a pity they're so expensive for us 'casual' users. :(

Just a pity they're so expensive for us 'casual' users. :(

Nail on the head there!

My camera's usually on MF anyway so I'm not so bothered by the noise of the motor. It's only when I'm being lazy.

Anyway, what's the deal with AF manufacturers making the focusing rings so LITTLE?!?!?! The focus adjustment on all my lenses is about 1/8" in plastic right at the end of my lens. :mad:

What happened to nice big chunky focusing grips? :(

Auto Focus happened

Hope you don't mind if I trample over this thread. I have a Pentax A30. I've had it for a year or so. I quite like it, but am getting a little frustrated over the quality of pictures it produces, especially in dusky, overcast days.

I quite like the look of the K200D, which hasn't been out long. However, I don't want to jump into the DSLR world without looking at better compacts. However, from what I can see, I can't do all that much better.

Or can I? Any fancy compact users on here? The Sigma DP1 seems to be the only camera that has a far superior sensor compared to my A30 but is let down quite a lot. Are the Ricoh's worth it, or is the spend that demand better put in a DSLR?

Auto Focus happened

Bah

Ahhhh you didn't say that you were comparing it against a NIkon SLR - that explains why you found it difficult to tell the difference. :eek:

Maybe its 'cos I'm colour blind and have a pi$h monitor

Anyway for those interested in the on topic stuff you may find this website covers my argument quite well and is a useful resource.

Your Camera Doesn't Matter

A $150 versus a $5,000 Camera

A $25 vs. a $5,000 Camera

Well you originally said ‘in decent light you would find it hard to tell the difference’ but even then I don’t get your point. Everyone agrees the photographer is the most important part, but if you are asking me if I would rather listen to Beethoven’s Appassionata Sonata played on a Steinway Grand or a pub piano I can tell you that you don’t really understand the obvious shortcoming in your argument. Scuffs pictures are general great to stunning and he could not have taken them to that degree with a cheap camera. I do believe he can take great shots with a cheap Digital camera however, but he would be so much more limited to what he currently achieves. I occasionally work with Pro Film (TV and Movie) Cameramen, some of whom are into photography and to see what they can do with a decent camera is quite humbling sometimes.

Sorry but I think I disagree with you quite strongly on this one.

Hi Burnsey

Thanks for the links.

Rockwell does certainly generate comment - but don't believe everything you read on a personal website. Sure, he is entitled to his opinion, and he sticks to it, despite general derision by people who actually know what they are talking about.

For a balanced view - here are some from the 'other side'

Ken Rockwell - Genius or Fool? - DPChallenge Forums

Your Camera Does Matter

Scuffs pictures are general great to stunning and he could not have taken them to that degree with a cheap camera.

Don't think we were talking about near to Professional shots in this, although I haven't seen any of his/her photos.

If the orignal poster was asking the question on compact v slr then I would simply make them aware that it really depends on what they are going to be shooting before thinking of getting an slr.

Again I refer back to my point that there are certain conditions when one might struggle to tell the difference (that is my opinion so please don't someone tell me I'm wrong, or I'm not allowed to have that opinion). In most other conditions, or if taking "proper" arty shots an SLR is essential (which is why I've got one).

For example, I've got pictures of sunsets on my wall as I type that I took on the compact camera which I am 99% sure would have come out the same on the DSLR. I do spend quite a bit of time setting up the compact rather than it being just a P&S tool. Likewise I have shots from recent wedding that were taken with a D70s with 50mm f1.8 lens that wouldn't have been possible at all with a compact due the fast movement or lighting conditions.

To quote someone that I was refered to "In some cases they are objectively better, while in others their degree of betterness will be subjetive and will depend on the specific needs of a particular photographer."

In summary, I'd say if Ken's $150 camera is better than a $5000 one, then it's clear that a Fabia vrs is faster than a Ferrari. In fact, I think Ken is the photographic equivalent of Mil

In very particular circumstances, the cheaper camera or car can outperform the more expensive one, but in the majority of cases, if driven properly, it won't be so

We are not going to agree Burnsey. I also have both a compact (Canon A710) which has an optical stabiliser, 200mm equivalent lens high ISO potential as well as Av, Tv modes etc. I also have a Canon 40 with a 70-200mm f2.8 lens and apart from the advantage of discretion and hence the possible advantage of a candid shot, I can not begin to compare the 2 for the pictures I can create/shoot. The image quality of the A710 is vastly inferior and I can almost always easily tell the difference between the 2 cameras (the exception being if I produce a duff DSLR image). These big DSLRs produce wonderful colours, smooth yet dynamic contrasts, allow the experienced photographer (not me, but ppl like Mort and Scuff etc) to go to even greater heights of inventiveness and creativity. Plus the A710 has all the usual problems, even though its spec might look similar to the SLR lens. Things like shutter lag, drive speed and awful noise from ISO400 and up meaning fast action is a no go in anything but bright light.

I am sure Gordon Ramsey could knock up a great sandwich from what’s lying around in my kitchen, but would produce something so much better if he was given a full range of quality ingredients. Both the sandwich and the meal would no doubt be filling and quite possibly tasty, but there is no real comparison to be made.

Edited 8 September, 200817 yr by Lady Elanore

In summary, I'd say if Ken's $150 camera is better than a $5000 one, then it's clear that a Fabia vrs is faster than a Ferrari. In fact, I think Ken is the photographic equivalent of Mil

In very particular circumstances, the cheaper camera or car can outperform the more expensive one, but in the majority of cases, if driven properly, it won't be so

Except in the Fabia vRS argument, where it is ALWAYS faster

Hi Burnsey

Thanks for the links.

Rockwell does certainly generate comment - but don't believe everything you read on a personal website. Sure, he is entitled to his opinion, and he sticks to it, despite general derision by people who actually know what they are talking about.

For a balanced view - here are some from the 'other side'

Ken Rockwell - Genius or Fool? - DPChallenge Forums

Your Camera Does Matter

Thanks for the links. His site (and reading the manual) did help me get to grips with my D70s so have to thank him for that. There are some good links on that dpchallenge which I'll be taking a look at some lunchtime and hopefully learn some more tricks.

The image quality of the A710 is vastly inferior and I can almost always easily tell the difference between the 2 cameras.

Things like shutter lag, drive speed and awful noise from ISO400 and up meaning fast action is a no go in anything but bright light.[/font][/color]

Well your eyesight is better than mine, but you do make the point "almost always" and I said I could sometimes struggle to tell the difference so we're agreed

I think I covered those points quite well, with my last umpteen posts. Perfect light, SLR shots at wedding I couldn't get with compact. Jesus, I think I even said outwith perfect conditions comparison ends. So what's your point?

I think I covered those points quite well' date=' with my last umpteen posts. Perfect light, SLR shots at wedding I couldn't get with compact. Jesus, I think I even said outwith perfect conditions comparison ends. So what's your point?[/quote']

My point is I believe both you and Mr Rockwell are wrong.

Perhaps I think I should have added because the window of opportunity of not being able to tell the 2 types apart is so small that the question of which is better doesn’t really arise.

I can also recommend Thom Hogan's e-books. I have found them incredibly detailed and insightful, yet very easy to understand. He explains things in simple concepts that help you understand how to get the most of of your camera.

Thom Hogan's Nikon Field Guide and Nikon Flash Guide

Note: I'm not recommending him over anyone else, it's just that I haven't looked at any other publications out there

In summary, I'd say if Ken's $150 camera is better than a $5000 one, then it's clear that a Fabia vrs is faster than a Ferrari. In fact, I think Ken is the photographic equivalent of Mil

In very particular circumstances, the cheaper camera or car can outperform the more expensive one, but in the majority of cases, if driven properly, it won't be so

Therefore before you go spending all that money on a DSLR you need to be sure you are going to be able to appreciate the benefits. ie no point getting a ferrari if you can't drive or have a famr road to get down every day

A fabia is always better than a ferrari in the rain Well it might have been today

Not sure how many ways I can say it - think about what you will use it for.

I certainly get quite a lot of satisfaction out of my dSLR but some others couldn't be bothered carrying it around. It doesn't fit very well in a pocket and can draw unwanted attention. Although at charity event someone thought I was from the press which wasn't a bad thing

I would concede my mother would be totally unable to take a picture with a DSLR, that’s why I bought her a fixed focus one button fully auto Compact. But think that most people on Briskoda could grasp the fundamental workings of a SLR and seeing how most ppl on here like to tinker, they would also get satisfaction of the idea of buying lenses, filters,etc But as I also mentioned about size being the compacts advantage, I believe this is the only one it has.

Funnily enough, I have been mistaken for a snapper when I have my 40D with grip and a fast lens on it and this is usually a disadvantage. The security ppl at major events don’t like you taking pictures from public positions if they think you are a pro. I nearly got thrown out an athletics meet because of it once.

I get that a lot....

What tends to get up my nose is people trying to stop me taking pictures in a public place.......