Sounding good Chris

Get some pics up though - always helps, doesn't matter if it's already grubby either

Steve

I’ve driven one of these and thought is was great. The economy was superb even if thrashed.

Can you get the Stop Start permanently disabled for your learners or isn’t it a problem? I find it works well in traffic on my diesel, but is tiresome on creeping/stopping motorway jam style traffic.

Sounding good Chris

Get some pics up though - always helps, doesn't matter if it's already grubby either

Steve

I washed it tonight but it started lashing it down about halfway through. Might get around to a photo or two at the weekend.

I’ve driven one of these and thought is was great. The economy was superb even if thrashed.

Can you get the Stop Start permanently disabled for your learners or isn’t it a problem? I find it works well in traffic on my diesel, but is tiresome on creeping/stopping motorway jam style traffic.

I can switch off the stop start (although it automatically resets itself if you switch off). I just disable it temporarily in crawling traffic or if I am letting the turbo cool off a bit. The learners seem to get on OK with it.

Chris

I can switch off the stop start (although it automatically resets itself if you switch off). I just disable it temporarily in crawling traffic or if I am letting the turbo cool off a bit. The learners seem to get on OK with it.

Chris

I was thinking that if the learner stalled, then the stop start would rearm (mine would if I ever stalled it ) and it might become tedious to have to remember to kill it again.

On the cooling front, I too disable it to let the turbos cool a little when I have been driving briskly.

I was thinking that if the learner stalled, then the stop start would rearm (mine would if I ever stalled it ) and it might become tedious to have to remember to kill it again.

On the cooling front, I too disable it to let the turbos cool a little when I have been driving briskly.

I tend to just leave the stop / start on for the learners. Only had one person stall it this week and the stop start function did something quite useful. She put the car into neutral to restart and as she took her foot off the clutch, the engine started itself. Into first and away we went.

Chris

Like so many people I have a bit of a quiet respect for New MINIs but could probably never own one due to having not so little children to fit in the back seats, however I think the choice of one as a learner car is excellent and I can see why you are getting extra clients in on the back of the car's percieved coolness.

It will be interesting to see how it handles the life as a working car, I can't see it being any worse on the reliability side than anything else in the same size bracket unless you're really unlucky. The older phase one cars are in plentiful supply out on the roads and they always look in good condition and wear their age very well.

Looking forward to the photos.

Does anyone offer a re-map for the Cooper D yet? LOL

Chris, whilst I understand its usefull in a stall situation, its hardly prepping students for the real world of driving :P

Nice to hear its loosening up already!

:iagree: - most cars don't do that after all (and it would drive me mental in creeping traffic as well).

My concerns about stop-start systems in diesel engines are as follows:

- I think that starting a diesel takes a fair chunk of fuel, so if literally stop-starting all the time surely you burn more fuel this way?

- Starting a diesel engine in particular puts a big strain on the engine mountings due to inertia (have someone start you diesel car up whilst you have the bonnet open and look at the movement of the engine - you'll be most surprised)

- I think it results in unnecessary wear on the starter motor.

If I had a car with it I would most certainly be looking to permanently disable it.

- Starting a diesel engine in particular puts a big strain on the engine mountings due to inertia (have someone start you diesel car up whilst you have the bonnet open and look at the movement of the engine - you'll be most surprised)

There I do disagree, and I've done it more times than most, due to having had a car that, for about 3 months, needed the manual primer operating on every cold start.

Really? All the diesel cars I've ever owned/seen the engine moves quite a lot on start up Maybe it's just me making a mountain out of a mole hill

:iagree: - most cars don't do that after all (and it would drive me mental in creeping traffic as well).

If you brake then take the clutch up after putting the handbrake on and the car into neutral it cuts the engine and restarts as soon as you put the clutch down.

If you don't have the handbrake on etc then if doesn't cut it. If it bothers you you just poke the button by the gear stick.

I actually quite like the feature.

Really? All the diesel cars I've ever owned/seen the engine moves quite a lot on start up Maybe it's just me making a mountain out of a mole hill

I think the mountings are a bit softer to deal with vibration.

To be fair I'm sure BMW will have designed the parts to cope, I mean citroen have this in some of their cars too.

If you brake then take the clutch up after putting the handbrake on and the car into neutral it cuts the engine and restarts as soon as you put the clutch down.

If you don't have the handbrake on etc then if doesn't cut it. If it bothers you you just poke the button by the gear stick.

I actually quite like the feature.

I've not tried it, but it's not unknown for me to have creeping situations where I'd be starting and stopping the engine every few seconds. On downhills, it's also not unknown for me to "move off" by releasing the handbrake, and then the clutch too!

If you brake then take the clutch up after putting the handbrake on and the car into neutral it cuts the engine and restarts as soon as you put the clutch down.

If you don't have the handbrake on etc then if doesn't cut it. If it bothers you you just poke the button by the gear stick.

I actually quite like the feature.

On the 1 series, you don’t need to use the handbrake, just coming to a stop will activate the Stall feature. It works when coasting to a stop (with footbrake on or off) and will start the car again when you roll off down a hill and you achieve a couple of mph (not applying the clutch). Also the start system cuts in if you are running the air-con and it can’t keep the temperature at the requested temp which is fair enough I guess (please don’t start talking about how air-cons works folks, as I have fair idea of how Fridges work, Boyle’s law and Origami).

The mini does restart for aircon too

Does anyone offer a re-map for the Cooper D yet? LOL

Yes they do, but the gains are not huge as the DPF spoils the fun and I don't think they are as over engineered as the VAG cars in the gearbox department. I will be leaving it standard.

Chris, whilst I understand its usefull in a stall situation, its hardly prepping students for the real world of driving :P

Nice to hear its loosening up already!

IT is useful if they stall, but I tend to not teach them to stall in the first place. On the other hand, pupils I have that started with other instructors or the school of mum and dad are finding they stall it occasionally.

My concerns about stop-start systems in diesel engines are as follows:

- I think that starting a diesel takes a fair chunk of fuel, so if literally stop-starting all the time surely you burn more fuel this way?

A diesel actually starts leaner than a petrol from a hot start. Some of the losses are down to the battery current needing to be replaced by burning fuel, but this is offset by the battery in the Mini only being charged when you are braking.

- Starting a diesel engine in particular puts a big strain on the engine mountings due to inertia (have someone start you diesel car up whilst you have the bonnet open and look at the movement of the engine - you'll be most surprised)

Have you seen what happens when you put your foot down in 1st? Reaction torque from starting is a non issue in any car.

- I think it results in unnecessary wear on the starter motor.

Obviously the starter motor will be re engineered to allow for the extra duty, as is the oil pump.

I've not tried it, but it's not unknown for me to have creeping situations where I'd be starting and stopping the engine every few seconds. On downhills, it's also not unknown for me to "move off" by releasing the handbrake, and then the clutch too!

There will be situations where the feature is not ideal. I was in crawling stop start last night and it took at least a second to deactivate it. On the other hand, it is part of an integrated system of fuel consumption management that puts the car on a level footing with things like the Polo Bluemotion and Fabia Greenline in real world driving, but it is way quicker than them and is fitted with grippy tyres, a comfortable up market interior and plenty of gadgets too. So all in all, worth the effort IMO. Thus far this week, I have averaged over 52mpg in teaching. Due to the change of car, most of this weeks teaching has been on urban roads acclimatising people to their manoeuvres. The Fabia would have seen perhaps 36 - 38mpg at best in this situation.

To put it in context, I will have used around £110 worth of diesel this week. In the Fabia, it would have been around £130. BUT on top of my usual teaching load, I have had a 100 mile pleasure drive on the first day I owned it, a 400+ mile round trip up north and a 100 mile round trip to Kent. With the Fabia, this would have been an additional £68 worth of fuel. So week one and I am already £88 ahead on fuel.

Chris

All I was getting at Chris, and I really didn't want to sound patronising, is that your pupils need to learn how to recover from a stall situation, and the Mini isn't going to teach them that.

All I was getting at Chris, and I really didn't want to sound patronising, is that your pupils need to learn how to recover from a stall situation, and the Mini isn't going to teach them that.

No worries, I didn't think you sounded patronising! It is a good point and I will need to teach new ones how to start a normal car.

Chris

Actually to add to the above debate, the Mini/BMW stop Start does teach pupils how to restart after staling as once stalled, the engine needs to be switched on again. Admittedly the procedure is a little unusual with a button but I think that’s a minor detail.

A clever bit of this system that shows it is more than a plain old starter motor and a solenoid, is occasionally I have come to a stop only to instantaneously move off again. the engine starts to die and the starter catches it with a quick ‘tweak’ bringing the engine up to running speed almost instantly. It’s a slightly odd thing but works brilliantly. No gnashing of teeth (including the drivers’)

I read somewhere that BMW reckon that if the engine is stationary for 4 seconds or more it saves energy/fuel over constant running. This obviously includes the start up cycle too.

nice fuel savings there Chris, looks like your figure will add up to cover the extra starting price of the car

and for anyone who hasn't tried a stop/start tech car (I recently used a honda civic hybrid on an automatic test) they don't start like normal cars, as chris says the systems are all re-engineered, (like the regenrative braking, the honda had clever graphics to show all the electicity flow, charging from braking, assisting on hard acceleration ect) the engine in the honda started seemlessly withig a matter of a fraction of a second when needed, so good in fact, that once you get used to it, you don't even notice when the engine is starting/stopping, there is no drama at all, just clever tech doing its job.......

Time for some fun now the Mini is run in. The car has now covered just under 1800 miles. I stuck to the running in recommendations and took it easy and have been gradually building up to using full throttle / full revs. I am now driving it without nursing the engine and starting to get into the feel of the car.

From the off then, performance is adequate. The engine has none on the Fabia’s urgency when you snap the throttle open. There is no big thump of torque and you are not whisked up the road. But appearances can be deceptive. The Cooper D weighs in at 1090Kg with 36L of fuel on board, so is around 185 - 210Kg less than the Fabia (depending on whose numbers you use for the Fabia). In power and torque to weight terms, this puts the Mini on a fairly even footing, both coming in at 100bhp / tonne and 176 lb/ft / tonne. The car does not feel as quick as the Fabia at higher speeds, but I would imagine it would keep an unmapped Fabia vRS honest in the first 3 gears and there would not be much in it thereafter.

It is when the corners appear that the real differences really start to show. Long sweepers see the front end resolutely turning in and adding throttle seems to make the tail swing out slightly to help the turn in further, all this happens when the Fabia would already be deep into understeer territory, needing the driver to back off a bit. Keep with it and eventually it will wash into understeer, but a lift will regain the front end quite briskly at this point. Care is advised here. On the country lanes, the car is just so well balanced and adjustable. It will settle immediately into any cornering stance you wish to dial in and just stays there until you ask it to do something else. Mid corner bumps do not upset the balance although the Goodyear runflats will patter across broken surfaces. The car just steps a little out at the front, then the rear, then all is OK again. There is an unexpected (for a front drive car) level of throttle adjustability to be had generally.

I had my first proper hack down some lanes today and I have to say that one can carry some pretty indecent levels of pace in the more challenging rural roads. In places where the Fabia would have bounced off the road, the Mini just seems to bait you to push harder. On the right road it is a hooligan toy.

As the engine has loosened up, the noise levels have increased slightly. There is more high frequency clatter than the driver of a PD engine would be used to, but less thrum and lower frequency noise (on account of smaller pistons I guess). When pulling hard, the Fabia engine always felt smooth and civilised. The Mini unit is harsher, but still OK. Fuel consumption in driving lessons seems to be averaging around 56mpg, though the change of car has meant that I have spent a disproportionate amount of time practicing manoeuvres with the pupils. I expect to see an improvement once things settle down.

So far so good then. It is good for the pupils, a hoot to drive, takes a long motorway journey in it’s stride and sips fuel. The seats have passed the “16 hours in one day” test without giving me the slightest twinge of discomfort. Only fly in the ointment was a blown headlight bulb. I put a set of Philips X-Tremes (H4) in and one bulb blew within a couple of minutes. Early in the MTBF curve, but the bulbs made a big difference, so will be replacing them with more of the same once replacements arrive.

I am still going to really miss the Fabia when it is gone though.

The sun is out the sky is blue, I’m off to drive the MR2:cool:

Chris

Thanks for the great review..... I've always fancied a new mini but have never got round to it.

Are we gonna see some pics of it at all????? Want to see what this mood lighting looks like too.

Cheers

Dave.

The pattering over broken surfaces I think must be a Run-Flat’s feature rather than fault, the symptom you describe Chris is almost exactly the same feeling I have in my much heavier 1 series. I think it is the lack of compliance in the stiff walled run flats.

I liked the Cooper D when I drove one and your review adds to the brief experience I had:thumbup:

Are we gonna see some pics of it at all????? Want to see what this mood lighting looks like too.

Well if you insist:) Twas nearly dark, so you will have to forgive the image quality, the last one gives you an idea of just how dark.

Photographically enhanced to exaggerate the mood lighting a little:

And this is how dark it really was, sidelights giving an idea:

The pattering over broken surfaces I think must be a Run-Flat’s feature rather than fault, the symptom you describe Chris is almost exactly the same feeling I have in my much heavier 1 series. I think it is the lack of compliance in the stiff walled run flats.

I liked the Cooper D when I drove one and your review adds to the brief experience I had:thumbup:

The patter is not particularly any worse than other cars, but because of the ride quality, it is very clear exactly what is going on. Curiously, my MR2 with it's rock hard ride, tyre sidewalls and damping is the only car I have owned that does not lose it's line too badly on my local test bend, but only after the chassis was stiffened and the suspension replaced. The Fabia seems to absorb the broken surface more effectively, but is deflected off line to a greater degree. Generally, even with the run flats, ride is really good. Firm, but almost never flustered.

Those white wheels are a bugger to keep clean mind:thumbdwn:

Chris