Serious handling issue.

[Sri5]

I'm having some pretty bad handling problems at the moment that 4 seperate garages have been unable to correctly diagnose but the problem is pretty dangerous and severe so any help will be greatly appriciated.

The car has half life goodyears on the front and half life cheapos on the rear. Its an estate on the 16' standard alloys. When driving over poor surfaces it tramlines at lot, and it also throws the car around on the road. When going round corners, a bump will cause the car to wiggle around quite alot, enough to really get you scared. Its been getting progressly worse over the past month and now my wife refuses to drive it. I've had my trusted local check the suspension with no problems, its been laser lined to set the wheels up, had one new tyre as it was faulty and fully checked by another independant mechanic.

I really need some help as its pretty bad and never used to be like this but I can;t afford to just replace bits here there and everywhere at this time of year!

[KenONeill]

Have you tried swapping the tyres end for end?

Also, you say it's been laser-aligned; can you post details of what measurements were taken and which if any changed?

[Sri5]

Yes, I've swopped the tyres end to end, that when I noticed that one of the tyres was faulty. I have a computer print out at home, I'll type them on tonight. I know that the rears are still out as the garage could not adjust them. They said the maybe changing the bushes might help.

[Guest westallc]

has the car ever been in a prang????

[Sri5]

has the car ever been in a prang????

All the paint seems original and the HPI report was clear so I guess not.My wife uses it daily for the school run so gets the usual abuse over speedbumps, kerbs etc but she sayes that she has not hit anything.

I have the laser allignment report now and the final reading after the front wheel were brought back into line shows slight differences everywhere, nothing to serious in the garages view though - except at the rear. There are two readings which show a comparativly large difference. One of the rear whees is pointing inwards at the rear 2.4mm and the other 0.2mm. but then another reading on the rear wheels, both together on the axle shows a problem of 2.1mm.

I'm confused??

[Interphase]

Just a weird sideways thought: if the shocks, mounts, bushes and rollbars have been examined many times and cleared, could the diff be playing up?

[Sri5]

wow, that is a sideways thought!! Is there anyway of me checking the diff without going to a mechanic?

[Interphase]

Dunno tbh - I wouldn't even assume it was a possibility without talking to someone who knows about this sort of thing

I just thought about it because I remember driving a Leon with a slightly troublesome LSD a while back where it'd sometimes start to lock up ahead of the time it was supposed to, and it'd throw the balance of the car something rotten on bumpy bends. I have no idea why as I'm not technical enough to kow what was behind it, but I know how horrible it felt

[Royston]

Octavia's don't have LSD's fitted as standard???

My first thought would be bent anti roll bars, or worn/disintegrated ARB bushes. Specifically ask for them to be checked as some garages would just check the dampers and springs and say the suspension is OK.

bad roads and speed bumps are a killer for arb's and bushes.

[Interphase]

I know, but I was wondering what might happen if a standard diff got a bit sticky - I'd imagine it'd feel something like a mild LSD, but just not when you wanted or expected. Like I say, I was just thinking out loud, and at a tangent

[Sri5]

Octavia's don't have LSD's fitted as standard???

My first thought would be bent anti roll bars, or worn/disintegrated ARB bushes. Specifically ask for them to be checked as some garages would just check the dampers and springs and say the suspension is OK.

bad roads and speed bumps are a killer for arb's and bushes.

I have checked the ARB/Bushs and visually there is a slight gap between the bush and bar but I've had worse. The ARB also shows signs of surface rust around the area where the bush makes contact. It doesnt seem bent though.

[KenONeill]

The quoted differences in the rear toe angles have me wondering if the rear thrust axis has been measured. If so, then the question of whether or not the toe angles are correct might be answered!

[peppyuk]

I'd be taking the dampers off and checking them properly, not just bouncing the car up and down.

[Mark_A]

Can you tell whether the feeling of instability mid-corner is coming from the front or rear end?

If it feels like a front end issue, does it feel like the amount of steering input is changing mid-corner, i.e. the car tightens and loosens its line through the corner without you moving the steering wheel? Possibly a ball joint if so...

How were the tyres wearing before you swapped them over - any unusual or excessive wear on inner or outer edges that might point towards a suspect "corner" of the car?

[TaviaRS]

I had something similar on mine many years ago. Turns out it was a snapped "bit" where the bottom of the shock connects to the whish bone, think it was the hub carrier or something like that. Felt like you were driving on ice and yes, it did tramline.

[vRSLen]

As it is an estate, have you tried it with a lot of weight in the back?

[Sri5]

Can you tell whether the feeling of instability mid-corner is coming from the front or rear end?

If it feels like a front end issue, does it feel like the amount of steering input is changing mid-corner, i.e. the car tightens and loosens its line through the corner without you moving the steering wheel? Possibly a ball joint if so...

How were the tyres wearing before you swapped them over - any unusual or excessive wear on inner or outer edges that might point towards a suspect "corner" of the car?

Its quite hard to describe, before I swopped the tyres end to end the problem was more at the front, but swopping tyres over defo changed it, and added the rear end wiggle. But the problem of tramlining and throwing the car over the road still exists.

The actual steering is fine, no imput changes, pulling or knocking felt. Its not losing power steering fluid either.

The tyres have always worn more on the inner edges since I've had it, I was told this is due to the natural camber of car - perhaps it indicates something more sinister? Although the printout I received from the car didn't actually relate the measurments to words/titles, it indicated where the area of measurement was taken through pictures. And the toe in angle etc was out ( but i may be reading this wrong.)

[Sri5]

As it is an estate, have you tried it with a lot of weight in the back?

Regulary, but no improvements felt, it only increases the problem as the front lifts that little bit more making the steering slightly lighter - as to be expected in any car.

[Tom_vRS]

Tramlining suggests something at the front imho.

I'm guessing its something more subtle than a split bush. Jon could well be on the right line I reckon...

[Browny_37]

Wearing of the inside edges of the front tyres usually indicates that the wheels are toeing out. Or there is excessive amounts of camber!

Which could suggest a wheel bearing or worn bushes are at fault, but then you should hear the difference i would have thought.

My experience of wheel bearing faults has been somewhat limited to a dry bearing, where i would only experience a rough noise if the car wasn't used for some period.

Also i would assume the garages have already checked the tracking?

[Sri5]

When I bought the car about 1 1/2 years ago I had both front wheel bearings replaced, but the mechanic noted that the Hub carriers were worn, they didnt require replacing then but he still noted it. Its never had more than a day off driving so its not from standing still either!

I understand that the inner edges of the tyres wearing may be an indication of something deeper now, so I am I having one more final attempt with an indepedant specialist before biting the bullit and ringing skoda. Its in tomorrow so fingers crossed that he can spot the issue. I've instructed him to give a good drive down some country roads to understand the issue and he's ment to be a specialist in these areas.

[Sri5]

I thinks its been correctly diagnosed now! The guy I took it to yesterday managed to spot some very badly damaged bushes behind the front wheels. Its the bush which connect to the arms - cant remeber the exact name. He showed me and there was around 1/2 an inch of play in each one if you play the wheel correctly.He's doing the work on friday so hopefully this will sort it out.

Thanks for all your help though guys.

[peppyuk]

Good to hear you've found a problem, but it's a little worrying the more than one other garage couldn't spot ½" of play in what sounds like a pretty important bush!

[Sri5]

Yeah I know. 2 of them were major garage chains too!

[Bodge]

Rear wishbone bush? It's a sort of round doughnut shape bush on the rear mount of the wishbone, in the location that you say.

If it is, it's a very common bush to fail. Try and get hold of some solid type Audi TT versions if you can (the standard items have 2 slots down either side, for more 'comfort' i guess).

It's not a big job, so shouldn't cost too much. You can buy new wishbones with front and rear bushes fitted for £50 from Skoda, then it's just 5 bolts to change a wishbone.