Quick rapid questions

[Yella]

What's the difference between the 130 and the 136? Do these numbers relate to bhp by any chance?

Otherwise anyone with rough figures for the below would be appreciated:

Bhp

Torque

Weight

Mpg

0-60

Also what fuel do they run on? 4 star or unleaded?

I'm currently being tempted back into my classics but fancy something less common than my old MGBs. Might stick with the Skodas for something really different!!

Cheers.

[Kieranzxt]

The difference is the 130 had a 5 port iron cylinder head and 136 (and 135) an aluminimum 8 port head.

The 130 would need lead substitue but the 136 runs happily on unleaded (its basically a Škoda Favorite engine)

I think both are rated at 62 bhp

Weight I think maybe 900kg

My 136 does about 35 mpg with a weber replacement carb. Probably less now I've got a 40DFAV fitted.

0-60 I would think about 12 \ 13 seconds standard....

[dieseldarren]

Sadly it's not the BHP!

(see Daverapid's post for the correct answer)

Edited 1 April, 2009 by gcr31463

[hawkeracing]

The difference is the 130 had a 5 port iron cylinder head and 136 (and 135) an aluminimum 8 port head.

The 130 would need lead substitue but the 136 runs happily on unleaded (its basically a Škoda Favorite engine)

I think both are rated at 62 bhp

Weight I think maybe 900kg

My 136 does about 35 mpg with a weber replacement carb. Probably less now I've got a 40DFAV fitted.

0-60 I would think about 12 \ 13 seconds standard....

I dont think a 130 will need lead substitute. Either way, if you can find a good 136 its a definite step up from a 130, and its bound to be at least a few kgs lighter due to the alloy head.

[Yella]

Cheers for that guys. I'm scouting around anyway.

I think if I go for it I might look at a bike engine conversion long term for something really different, but I'd need to be happy with the performance short term so if it's only 62 bhp then I'm undecided as yet.

[hawkeracing]

The 136 engine is not injected. The 135 Rapid was injected and didnt have any more power.

My 136 engined Estelle on bike carbs should be putting out somewhere between 80 and 90bhp. 100bhp is possible but not a lot more. Realistically Yella....what classic do you know of that has 136bhp from a 1300 engine???? I cant think of a single one. In fact, it would be hard to think of any car that had that much. A bike yes....car....not a single one in standard form I think.

[Yella]

No I didn't think it would be that powerful to be fair. I've never looked into them at all. I just knew it was turbo'd and it was called the 'Rapid'!! Hope more than expectation I think.

I have been thinking of a MGB again but maybe the V8 this time. I would definitely be interested in a Hayabusa powered Rapid though. 175bhp+ in a rapid would surprise a few people!!

[Tenman]

the Rapid isn't turbo'd...

[hawkeracing]

Theres also going to be a bit of a price difference between a V8 MGB and a Rapid. The MGB is going to be several thousand pounds....its possible to get a very good Rapid for one thousand. Lots of money spare to play with. Ultimately, if youre after speed and power dont bother with an old Skoda......they are an excellent drive, raw and exhilarating, but not fast.

[surprising_skod]

I dont think a 130 will need lead substitute. Either way, if you can find a good 136 its a definite step up from a 130, and its bound to be at least a few kgs lighter due to the alloy head.

it does really need lead substitute but you can get away without it. the older ones and the smaller ones Definitely do need it though. the extra porting on the 136 head means its much more keen to perform.

and as you said, the 135 was the FI and the 136 carbed.

the 136 rapid should be listed at 68hp, and the 130 at about 61/62

the 120 was about 58 and the 105, 54hp.

they weigh a bit less than 900, more about 850 with fluids i think it was.

on a standard Jikov carb, 40mpg should be the norm. If it works.

On an aftermarket, expect a max of 35 and if you're really, really stupid like me, figures in the teens

[KenONeill]

I've seen a 5-port, with an up and over, single 40DCOE, 3 branch, forged pistons, balance, Kent and some head work making 120bhp at 7_000: 7_100 and it started bending pushrods though!

[daverapid]

All engines have an alloy block.

105 is 1046cc with 44BHP

120 is 1174cc with 52BHP

120 with high compression is 1174cc with 58BHP

130 is 1289cc with 58BHP....same as high compression 120!

All the above have a 5 port cast iron cylinder head with Jikov twin coke carburettor.

136 is 1289cc with 62BHP with Jikov twin choke carburettor.

135 is a low compression version of 136, is 1289cc with 56BHP with Bendix single point fuel injection and catalytic converter.

135/6 engines have an 8 port alloy cylinder head that will not fit the blocks designed for a cast iron head.

Hope that clears up some of the incorrect information in the above posts!!:thumbup:

Off to get my anorak washed, it's filthy.......

:P

[Richard Black]

All the Estelle engines I've ever run are perfectly happy on regular unleaded. I've had various failures but none of the kind normally associated with unleaded petrol in an unsuitable engine.

In my experience, the 130 is the least reliable engine. Because the land between barrels is a bit narrow and the head is iron, differential thermal expansion causes gasket failure much more often than on the 120 where the land is wider. I've never had a gasket failure on a 135 engine (never had a 136 though I don't see why it would differ much from a 135 in that respect). The 105 engine puts out so little power that it will run forever - which is just as well as it _takes_ forever to get you anywhere.

[RSIMPS]

Just a point on the push rods, if you have very stiff valve springs then you could be causing some problems. The std 136 items will start to bounce at just over 7000 rpm, so you really dont need anything much stiffer to see 7500 rpm. I will have to look at which mini springs I used, but the were not full race items. You just waist power and increase wear by over rating them too much.

[KenONeill]

:iagree: - The same thing applies to high pressure oil pumps.

[Tailhappy]

"The 105 engine puts out so little power that it will run forever - which is just as well as it _takes_ forever to get you anywhere"

A properly set up 105 with perfectly adjusted Jikov, decent plugs, electronic ignition module and a properly sealed head/valves packs a good punch. I took out a Skoda sales rep in mine and from a slightly embarrassed smile as it roared into life his face changed to surprise as I gave it some beans in second. From 3000-4500 RPM it fair hurtles forwards and I saw the front rise up and the back squat down hard whilst the speed rises.

[Richard Black]

A properly set up 105 with perfectly adjusted Jikov, decent plugs, electronic ignition module and a properly sealed head/valves packs a good punch

You're probably right - to be fair, the one 105 I owned probably met none of those criteria. It was a crock of **** from start to finish and constituted the only time I've been properly done over when buying a car: the badge on the back said 130 and the body and trim were right for a late 130, but the gearbox wasn't right and the engine was gutless to an alarming degree - we're talking 3rd gear to get up the slopes on the M11, for gawdsakes - and I'd already mentally given it up as a bad job when my flatmate crashed it and made the decision for me. It was only curiosity that made me take the head off to find what was so wrong with the engine - which of course told me immediately that it was the wrong lump altogether! It still rankles, and though I can't even remember now which town I bought it in (St Albans? Hemel Hempstead? somewhere round there I think), if I ever meet the dodgy geezer who sold it to me he'd better be quick on his feet....

[tiny big]

I got 127bhp from a 136 engined estelle which was a hash together of second hand bits .The engines peak power was at 7100 rpm .It went like hell but because of the standard bottom end it did not last that long +my right foot is over developed and very heavy 9000 rpm does nothing nice to a standard bottom end.

[hawkeracing]

I got 127bhp from a 136 engined estelle which was a hash together of second hand bits .The engines peak power was at 7100 rpm .It went like hell but because of the standard bottom end it did not last that long +my right foot is over developed and very heavy 9000 rpm does nothing nice to a standard bottom end.

I would need to see some plots to believe that! Thats pretty much what the factory rally team were acheiving from professionally built engines. What ignition system and fuelling were you running??

[Richard Black]

Yeah, 'struth, NINE GRAND off a standard, cast iron, three-main-bearing crank? You must have modified the bejasus out of the valve train and quite a few other bits too....

[KenONeill]

Skoda Competition couldn't tell you what the 3-bearing crank, balanced stock rods and forged "slipper" pistons would stand, because the 5-port head bends pushrods when you start trying to run over 7_000 (Sources Skoda and John Haugland; anyone wishing to argue had better learn Czeck and/or Norwegian ).

[skofast]

I'll argue, and in Czech if you like !

I have a works motorsport dept bench test printout for my 130LR engine, showing 7500 rpm as safe maximum although that's somewhat higher than peak power. John says he ran many long Welsh and Scottish straights at that revs level, no other option.

Works entries in cars with 5-port heads were rare, the only applicable models being old Gp.A 120LS and later Gp.A 130 but I think the famous pushrod failures that occurred in UK events were in cars with the cast iron 8-port head.

[daverapid]

I'll argue, and in Czech if you like !

I have a works motorsport dept bench test printout for my 130LR engine, showing 7500 rpm as safe maximum although that's somewhat higher than peak power. John says he ran many long Welsh and Scottish straights at that revs level, no other option.

Works entries in cars with 5-port heads were rare, the only applicable models being old Gp.A 120LS and later Gp.A 130 but I think the famous pushrod failures that occurred in UK events were in cars with the cast iron 8-port head.

Trust me...Skofast is THE MAN THAT KNOWS.

[KenONeill]

Given Skofast's car, I'll concede that the crank and conrods are clearly safe to at least 7_500. That doesn't mean that the stock pushrods like it though. And there's plenty of documentation of Skoda making significant numbers of "police specials" to get a preferable competition homologation.

[skofast]

Given Skofast's car, I'll concede that the crank and conrods are clearly safe to at least 7_500. That doesn't mean that the stock pushrods like it though. And there's plenty of documentation of Skoda making significant numbers of "police specials" to get a preferable competition homologation.

Why thank you, Sir ! Actually I've never had to have my engine apart so I've no idea what spec the pushrods are, but I've no intention of using it that hard, it's too valuable.

The police specials thing was a method of homologating the basic spec vehicle, but it didn't help with the works versions, they had to rely on very limited numbers of 'evolution' parts.

The S120S was definitely built in the required numbers for Gp.2 homologation, this enabled the iron 8-port head but only equipped with a twin-choke downdraught Weber and a series 110LS exhaust. In a 70s communist state (one of the most strictly controlled) it wasn't possible to openly offer that number of special cars for 'sale' to the public so they went on patrol with police or STB units.

But communist era 'factory documentation' is pretty much worthless, as the case of the 130RS shows. In theory there needed to be 1000 pieces built in one year and one factory document states this was achieved - another version of the same document states 129 cars. FIA's Paul Frere believed the 1000, including being told 'they're police specials,already on duty, we can't possibly call them all back for you to see' - he signed the papers and a legend was born. If you talk to people on the ground at the time, even 129 was wildly optimistic and included cars built from new from 110R Coupes and works parts officially bought, then registered as RSs via the factory.

The LR story is much the same, there were produced 200 registration documents for Gp.B homologation, as the 'factory records' show....