Don't overtake like the completely brain dead Audi TT driver yesterday evening.

Ta.

Huh?!

Well if a tractor and trailer is turning left off a main road it is quite likely they will swing out right first to let the trailer clear the inside gate post. If I had not checked my mirror again and had swung out he'd have hit my front wheel and either died or ended up on his roof in the ditch. And it wouldn't have been my fault, either.

Without saying 'he was right' (because he wasn't- I wouldn't have done it unless I was *sure*), could you put hazard flashers on or indicate right, move out, indicate left to try to make it crystal clear, or at least make him think?

I only say this because in the lanes I use to get to work, tractor drivers will indicate left, ride up the verge, and slow to let you past in the narrow lane.

Well I personally would, if were talking a tight corner, slowly move over to the right to give myself room and then indicate left to turn in. I know it's different driving a very slow large vehicle to just a large one but it's still pretty much the same when turning into tight corners etc.

But I think probably the main thing here is that people just don't give people enough time sometimes and are way too impatient.

Phil

If people read the highway code before taking their test, this is actually specifically mentioned in there

Hehe... I don't think it would even need that... some bloody common sense would help!

Well if a tractor and trailer is turning left off a main road it is quite likely they will swing out right first to let the trailer clear the inside gate post. If I had not checked my mirror again and had swung out he'd have hit my front wheel and either died or ended up on his roof in the ditch. And it wouldn't have been my fault, either.

Yep, I'm sure the highway code mentions (admittedly probably only specifically lorries) large vehicles turning left....

Well, Clarkson does say the c0cks now drive audis....

DOh - beaten too it... This damn work thing gets in the way of posting

Edited 13 May, 200917 yr by sdenny
Beaten to it....

If people read the highway code before taking their test, this is actually specifically mentioned in there

And you expect that to make any difference?

Forgive me for being so naive,

could you put hazard flashers on or indicate right, move out, indicate left to try to make it crystal clear, or at least make him think?

That's generally the reason why I show brake lights - if I didn't show brake lights and indicated it might be my way of saying that someone can overtake me - but I refrain from doing that too (if it were to go wrong it would be my fault I guess). If the driver can't see for themselves they shouldn't be overtaking at all in my view, even if the tractor has signalled that it is safe to do so. .

If I had not checked my mirror again and had swung out he'd have hit my front wheel and either died or ended up on his roof in the ditch. And it wouldn't have been my fault, either.

It's an interesting dilemma, especially as the HC also mentions:

168Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.

Which kind of implies an overtaker always has right of way.... quite a confusing message really!

One of the problems with signals alone is that they can be confusing/misinterpreted. For example, if you're driving along and you signal left and apply the brakes, are you turning left or are you being courteous and letting a faster moving vehicle through? His reaction would suggest to me he interpreted it as the latter.

So how could you use positioning to reduce ambiguity? Perhaps adopting a bolder position at or over the centre line before applying the signal? This would serve to "shut down" the view he had and also narrow the road sufficiently that he'd not be considering an overtake. As a bonus, it may also reduce the amount of steering you need to get the right angle to make the turn. Conversely, if you want people to pass you a position to the left can serve to open up their view...

Chris

I do always make an effort to place my right hand wheels ON the white line when indicating left, as opposed to driving a few feet away from the left hand side of the road as I normally would.

So to confirm, when indicating left in to this junction I first check mirrors, then move over to right by 50cm - 1 metre, then signal left, then apply brakes and show brake lights.

How can that be misleading?

I've never driven a tractor or lorry, but in this situation I would probably start indicating left and then immediately dominate the road by positioning myself well over the white line to make my intention clear.

I'm not saying you're wrong at all, but if I was in a hurry and frustrated by a slow moving vehicle that hadn't pulled in to let faster traffic by, I might have seen the left hand signal as an opportunity to overtake too.

I had been on the main road for 400 metres, now you can't tell me that I should have pulled in over 400 metres of being on a road, haha.

So to confirm, when indicating left in to this junction I first check mirrors, then move over to right by 50cm - 1 metre, then signal left, then apply brakes and show brake lights.

How can that be misleading?

You'd have to ask the Audi driver, but I'm guessing from your description, he thought there was a) plenty of room to get passed and no chance of you turning.

So how could you have removed any doubt? Positioning even further out? In the scheme of things, I'm not sure 2-3 feet is a significant or positive enough move, especially for something as sizeable as a tractor and taking a bolder position earlier will resign him to following you. Presumably you have a good view of oncoming traffic as you're intending to swing out anyway, so how about:

- mirror

- move out to centre of road, straddling white line

- mirror

- signal left

- brake

- mirror

- make the turn

?

I think if you get the approach position correct too, you'll save the "unexpected" turn against the direction you are signalling you're turning which will make the manouevre easier for you too

Chris

Thanks Chris - will try that in future. My point still stands about the fact that he shouldn't have overtaken. I'm willing to bet that in the same situation an advanced driver like yourself would have taken the time to notice what I was doing .

If people read the highway code before taking their test, this is actually specifically mentioned in there

Not having a go here but it also says about driveing with "due care and consideration for other drivers" and i have been in plenty of 20+ car traffic jams behind tractors with plenty of chances to pull over. I'm not saying it's all tractor drivers just some:thumbup:

I am one of the minority who pulls over wherever possible if I have been travelling for any significant distance with a car behind me.

As a reversal of the situation - if you stayed two or three car lengths further back than most car drivers do, the tractor driver would actually be able to see yo. You do know that if you sit right behind we can't see you, don't you?

Your point applies more to horse boxes than it does to tractors - in my opinion at least

It's an interesting dilemma, especially as the HC also mentions:

Which kind of implies an overtaker always has right of way.... quite a confusing message really!

I think it's trying to encourage defensive driving and to make allowances for overtakers that may have done something unwise

As a reversal of the situation - if you stayed two or three car lengths further back than most car drivers do, the tractor driver would actually be able to see yo. You do know that if you sit right behind we can't see you, don't you?

And also, you can't see to get past...

And you expect that to make any difference?

I know of a recent court case where it did.

Fabia = Tractor

:confused:

Fabia = Tractor

:confused:

A vRS sounds like one on a cold morning

I know of a recent court case where it did.

Any details?

Thanks Chris - will try that in future. My point still stands about the fact that he shouldn't have overtaken.

Absolutely, it was a poor decision and he was lucky that you use your mirrors. I've seen the results of where they haven't been so lucky :(

I'm willing to bet that in the same situation an advanced driver like yourself would have taken the time to notice what I was doing .

It's an interesting point and I'd hope I reacted properly However, my decision to hang back may be based on "confusion and waiting for clarification" rather than "this tractor is obviously turning left".

Now, throw in a tractor and a two or more cars scenario. If Im the lead car and I hang back, is the guy following me going to assume I know something he doesn't, or is he going to assume I'm afraid of overtaking and go for it? From the information I have at the time, I know the decision to overtake is a poor one, so maybe there's something I could do to let him know that information? Equally, you're in the position with the most information so maybe there's something you could do to dissuade both of us? Etc, etc.

It's amazing how much you can influence traffic around you without appearing agressive or them realising

Chris

I bow to your extremely considered superior knowledge and how well you deliver it ScoobyChris