Perhaps my understanding is wrong but I thought the most restrictive part of the exhaust system on a turbo car was the catalytic converter.

I appreciate that the cat-back section also offers resistance and a performance cat-back would both help with this and sound good.

However, if the Milltek system prides itself on being nearly as quiet as stock....and the main resistance to flow comes from the downpipe and cat, why do folks go for a Milltek cat-back.:confused:

I am not criticising anyone or anything, I just don't understand and wanted to get this right for for those of us (like me) with limited funds who can only fund either the cat-back section or a down-pipe and cat (and keeping the stock cat-back). I was thinking about this after reading a thread a while ago on the mkivs forum where a guy went dp and cat only for this reason and backed up with RR performance logs (I think).

Posting here as I am considering exhaust update for my Mk 2 and the Maintenance and Performance forum is locked for the moment.

Thanks

Ages ago, both myself and Makefish went to Revo HQ with Mk2 vRS's for them to do some map tweaking on stage 2.

Mine had a Carbonio intake, Stage 1 Revo and Milltek CatBack, Fish's had Evoms, Stage 2 and Milltek TurboBack. The difference in peak BHP was averaging out at about 10BHP in favour of Fishy's car but the curves where identical.

The point to my post is that maybe the cat in the Mk2 is not as restrictive as in other model's and unless you where going for big power there are far better things to spend £xxx's on, FSD's and Eibachs / ARB's etc.

The Catback Milltek was pretty boomy to, in fact over all I really was less than impressed with it.

Back to the point, I don't think it actually makes that much difference (remember we are talking Stage 2 map vs Stage 1 as well for 10BHP) so if you are looking for medium power gains, save money get a catback, you can always add the cat / front pipe later. It's just my 2p worth, and I have got pictures of the runs and the graphs at home if anyone wants to dispute it

Just out of interest, was Mr Fish running with his modded HPFP at the time or were you both?

Just out of interest, was Mr Fish running with his modded HPFP at the time or were you both?

Both on standard fuel pumps at the time mate. I went to Revo stage 2 on mine with the standard fuel pump and the catback system (added an EVOMS though). I must have had a well made Octy at the time though as save for a couple of coilpacks and split Rev B DV I had no problems. No fuel cut's etc.

I am not suggesting anyone else do this, but I never suffered half the problems some on here with Mk2 vRS's did and with the Stage 2 / EVOMS / Catback and some V-Power iirc it ran mid to high 260's on different RR's.

I have the full turbo-back exhaust on mine as I bought it all together but from previous experience the cat-back alone makes a good difference, especially up the top end of the rev range.

i have a 57 plate vrs tfsi and ive got the miltec full hit i originaly had the cat back but went for the sport cat from miltec later on i think it helped the engine breath better, but i do agree with Shark they do respond well with just the cat back.

I went for the Cat Back to start with mainly due to Funds.

I didnt see the point on a Stage 1 Car. Even on stage 2 the power gain was minimal really (im talking stage 2 with CBE and Stage 2 with TBE)

I only went with the TBE when i went to Stage 2+ as that map requires it (along with HPFP) and then the difference is Vast.

HTH

Carl:thumbup:

Who is your stage 2+ map from Carl?

noob, here. what is the difference between stage 2 and stage 2+? im guessing you need hpfp and tbe for stage 2+ but is that all , no turbo or intercooler or injector upogrades? thanks

carl has REVO.

with REVo they can adjust the stage 2 map to allow for the std DP and CAT to sdtay on, with a performance cat back.

Blufin have developed theier map specifically to have the DP and CAT uprated. so i guess it depends on whjo the remap is from

noob, here. what is the difference between stage 2 and stage 2+? im guessing you need hpfp and tbe for stage 2+ but is that all , no turbo or intercooler or injector upogrades? thanks

stage 2is as you say TBE and HPFP. but it would be reccommended but not essential to have the air intake uprated or at least a perfomance panel filter sloted in to help the top of the rev range. intercooler is a nice to have. it wont give you more power, and if it does it wil be marginal, but it wil sustain that power when you give you r car the beans alot. as if the inlet temps get hot the performance of the car wil go down(heatsoak).

injectors are only needed for the K04 upgrade

HTH

sy:thumbup:

Who is your stage 2+ map from Carl?

As Simon has said my Stage 2+ map is from REVO. Which is generally regarded as the most aggressive of the Tuning companies for the TFSi engine

noob, here. what is the difference between stage 2 and stage 2+? im guessing you need hpfp and tbe for stage 2+ but is that all , no turbo or intercooler or injector upogrades? thanks

Simon has covered most of it but just to clarify.

Stage 1 - You just need the map nowt else.

Stage 2 - You need the Stage 2 code and at least a Panel filter. Recommended is a CAI

Stage 2+ - As a bare minimum you need Hi-Flow Downpipe, Sports Cat, CAI and HPFP.

Other mods that are not needed but recommended are:

Turbo Outlet pipe - I have a Neuspeed one which gives about 5bhp & 8-10lb/ft

Uprated Intercooler - i have an S3 one which is a straight bolt on and far far cheaper than the APR one or the Forge Twintercooler. No matter what anyone says they will not give you any upgrade in power. Thats not what it's designed to do. It will however as simon has said keep it more consistent. Generally on a RR you will get your most powerful run first or second. After that the power will slowly drop off. With a better cooler you will consistently get a the same result.

For an idea of what you can do to your car have a look here and you will see what i have done to mine. Mater's Blue Bullet

As simon has said aswell the Injectors you will only need if you go to KO4 or bigger turbo as the standard vRS injectors will not flow the fuel you need.

I've just fitted a few upgrades but couldn't get hold of a HPFP - everything else as per my sig.

Is the jump from stage 2 to stage 2+ worth forking out for a HPFP? I'd previously assumed that stage 2 was a big jump from stage 1, stage 2+ was quite a minor upgrade to stage 2.

Compared to stage 1, I'm very please so far. As someone mentioned above, the stage 1 Bluefin has a big turbo surge mid way through the rev range which does a good job of convincing you that you're driving something pretty fast.

Stage 2, to my mind anyway, gives a much broader power band which can be felt right through the rev range. I'm very impressed and it's far nicer than stage 1.

I

I've just fitted a few upgrades but couldn't get hold of a HPFP - everything else as per my sig.

Is the jump from stage 2 to stage 2+ worth forking out for a HPFP? I'd previously assumed that stage 2 was a big jump from stage 1, stage 2+ was quite a minor upgrade to stage 2.

Compared to stage 1, I'm very please so far. As someone mentioned above, the stage 1 Bluefin has a big turbo surge mid way through the rev range which does a good job of convincing you that you're driving something pretty fast.

Stage 2, to my mind anyway, gives a much broader power band which can be felt right through the rev range. I'm very impressed and it's far nicer than stage 1.

I

Stage 2 is not a big jump from stage 1 at all. In fact if you are expecting a big difference then you will be disappointed. i got about 8-10bhp and about 10-15lb/ft.

Stage 2+ will give you about 15-20bhp and about another 30-40lb/ft but its the fact that it holds it a lot further in the rev range. Even at about 5500rpm the car is still holding above 250lb/ft (with REVO anyway)

The HPFP is defo worth it and even though i'm stage 2+ i managed to still get 40.7mpg coming from Folkestone yesterday to Cheshire (via Wheels Inmotion) a total of just short of 300miles. I sat at 70-75mph on the motorway.

The fuel pump will just smooth things out aswell. just ensure you check the cam follower every 6-10k miles

Carl:thumbup:

Thanks Carl.

Are the Autotech and APR pumps generally considered the way to go? There's some in the for sale section

http://briskoda.net/non-automotive-items/10-bar-044-bosch-fuel-pumps-sale/156143/

but a quick internet search shows that these are used in conjunction with your original pump - confused

The Autotech one is an upgrade for the internals. Which is what i have. Took me 5 hours to fit BUT i was being overly cautious. You could do it in about 2 hours

You take out the old piston and replace it with a newer piston that is slightly larger (so will push more fuel through)

The APR one that uses your old pump do basically the same thing but you send the pump to them they check it's all ok and then replace the internals with their newer ones.

Or you can just buy a brand new complete pump from APR but i think that is circa £750 whereas the uprated pump from APR (basically yours refurbished and their internals) is about £500

Autotech internals are circa £200 BUT i wouldn't use them anymore. Mine were one of the first batches so quality was fine but recently (i don't know if this has been sorted now) they had issues with them that caused a lot of problems.

My advice now would be a complete APR pump. Expensive yes but worth it for peace of mind

Carl:thumbup:

cheers for the info guys. i ordered an evoms intake from jkm the other day so i will fit that next week, along with service items and some other goodies. i will be getting stage 1 apr map this time next month does anybody no if they do stage 2+ map?

cheers

kyle

Here's my experience. I first had a remapp( not Revo, an aggressive custom) and like other maps i was 236bhp. I fitted the Miltek cat back and went back on the same rollers and still had 236bhp, did not make the slightest difference including the curve. I then fitted the downpipe, HPFP, added the FMIC and an EVOM's. The same rollers produced between 283-288 bhp depending on outside temps and the car is night and day compared to a stage 1. I think it's the TBE in conjunction with a HPFP is the main ingredient.. Without having to tweak the first map i had that gave the car 236bhp when i fitted the other hardware my 60-100mph time was now 50-100mph.

cool, i was planning doing the TBE then getting stage 2 map and then just leaving it at that but i think ill save my pennies for the HPFP, i know its expensive but im going to go with maters sujjestion APR pump, long way off yet, not even fitted my evoms, hell ive not even received my evoms lol!!

already done forge spacer, bought ecs magnetic drain plug, k&n oil filter, ngk iridium plugs, powerflex torque arm insert.EVOMS, fitting and serving next week.

the plan so far....

stage 1 apr [next month]

blueflame tbe

neuspeed outlet pipe [thanks mater]

save and save

save again

HPFP

stage2+ map [if there is an apr one??]

Just found this thread and wanted to double check something. Carl and Si have said that for Revo Stage 2 you don't need TBE or CBE, which seems to go against what is suggested elsewhere? However having a CBE will give some gains over keeping the exhaust standard? Is this correct? At the mo i've got Stage 1 and EVOMS so will adding the CBE enable me to have a good stage 2 set-up?

if you fit just the cat back you will get a gain, if you fit just the Dp and CAT you will get a gain, if you fit the full TBE then the gain will be better. i noticed quite an increase with my DP.

for a stage 2 map you need the exhaust, but not necessarily the full TBE. depending on which part of the exhaust you have, cat back / DP+Cat or full TBE, the map will be set up to make the most of what you have.

The more you have the more you will be able to gain

Well i'm looking at the Jetex offer at the mo of cat-back for £285 which seems a bargain to me. Will then in the future (when funds and the urge for more power allow) get a DP and Cat, possibly the Pipewerx one. Would be happy to go to stage 2 expecting not a lot in terms of raw gains, but will be happy with a smoother, more usable map. Oh and if the CBE makes the car sound a little more throaty then the wife and kids will be happy!

my 3" pipewerx down pipe and cat, didnt sound any quiter than the full TBE miltek IMO

It made it a much deeper burble

Edited 16 November, 200916 yr by simonskerton

your pipewerx cat-back? did you mean DP+cat? This gave it a deeper burble than standard and comparable to the Milltek TBE?

corrected mate, yeah it was definately more noticable. I think the miltek is to quiet. shark_90 also agrees. He's changing his for the non resonated version very soon i think