Hi, it's been some time since I posted something.

I feel my vRS needs a quick tune-up. Now at 4 years old and ~61kkm on the clock.

1st thing is the knocking/thumping/jerking noise/effect when applying the throttle firmly or when changing gears, somehow I guessed it was an engine mount, and found how to remedy it here http://briskoda.net/fabia-technical-guides/changing-fabia-vrs-dogbone-mount/80462/ I just want to make sure if anyone had similar problems?

2nd is the the problem I've been dragging around for two years now, and is only getting worse. The unresponsive steering. Turning the steering wheel causes the car to wobble around instead of turn. Feels like driving a boat (quite literally I might add).

This began to happen, as I've written two years ago, after I hit the side of the road at very high speed (being pushed off the road by an idiot driver). A few kilometers after the incident something cracked from under the car and from there on the steering has been as explained above, until then it was very sharp (as a result of the fitted Cupra bushes) and a joy to drive.

I've been to a number of mechanics and no one found problems with the suspension, everything under there is tight and firm. Due to my constant moaning about it, the official dealer decidet to change the steering rack, the problem remained the same.

Anway, this is getting worse by the day, and would like if anyone can help, if anything, by a wild guess. A checklist of the suspension components that might have failed?

I would like to add a very suspicious problem that is obviously the result of the above mentioned. My second set of (front) tyres has again worn out more on the inside than the outside! What is more mind boggling is that the wheel alignment is literally perfect and the experts there wondered why it would happen.

There, if anyone were to shed some light on this issue I would appreciate it. Sorry for the long post.

Signed, a very sad Fabia vRS driver being unable to treat it's black beast :-(

There's way more to "wheel alignment" than just front tracking. Have you had a full geometry done?

check the ball joints on the wishbones, the top shocker bearings, and the track rod ends , this could all give you stiff/heavy steering

Damaged alloy wheels :confused:

Your first point definitely sounds like the gearbox side engine mount to me. Greasing it with silicone grease may help, had to replace both that and the dogbone mount to fix mine :(

not sure on the other question though... if you're getting uneven wear and the tyres are inflated correctly it has to be something off suspension wise surely

Ken, I don't know what "full geometry" exactly means, I do know they connected all four wheels to a high-tech wheel alignment device (the suspension components are shown in 3D on their PC when they move the wheel/car). From there they chose the Fabia mk1 sport suspension, and by that accounts everything was not only within limits, but also on the almost perfect zero-tolerance values. Is that it?

Then, when the first set wore out more on the inside, I thought it was because of high tyre pressure (2.6 bar) and decided to lower it to 2.4 bar, again they wore out unevenly.

Confused_Cheese, If I understood correctly you changed the lower gearbox mount and greased it with silicone spray and then the problem disappeared?

Stormchaser, indeed one wheel suffers from slight excenter, but it has been thoroughly balanced and is not mounted at the front. I still doubt that the tyre/alloy combo causes the steering issues because I've changed all possible combinations of alloys on the front/rear wheels as the tyre manufacturer also (from Dunlop to Continental), problem is the same.

ric04vrs, thanks for the list! Because of language differences, could you please point which of the components these would be? I've taken the liberty to cut it out of the Fabia mk1 workshop manual.

I guess the "top shocker bearing" is not on this picture?

My worst fear is if we change everything the problem would remain the same :confused: Any other (wild) guess would be appreciated, when we tear the suspension down to change everything that is suspicious.

Thanks for the info everyone!

The long and short of it mate:

I had the gearbox side engine mount greased with a tube of silicone grease (not spray) and not the dogbone mount (dogbone being underneath the engine, gearbox side mount being kinda underneath the air box/battery plate) which made little to no difference

Then had the dogbone mount greased, which improved it a bit further

Then had both replaced and its been silent for nearly a year now. Might just be one or the other thats causing the knocking... if you're fairly mechanically minded, give them a grease and see if it gets better to help rule them out

Thnx Confused! :-)

Anway, I've been researching more on the Fabia suspension, and found out here on the forums lots of people use Powerflex bushes. I gave their site a look and guess what turned up?

Quote from Powerflex FAQ:

"IMPRECISE HANDLING? UNEVEN TYRE WEAR? BRAKING INSTABILITY?

These are the common problems associated with soft, ageing, or failing rubber compound suspension bushes. POWERFLEX products offer the cure."

"Have you ever taken your car into a tyre shop with tyres which are worn out on the inner or outer edges but perfectly legal everywhere else? You assume the tracking is wrong, but when the shop checks, it is correct. This is bush wear. When the car is stationary the tracking is correct but as you move and the loads increase then the tracking goes out. Come to a stop and the tracking is right again. Worn bushes. "

It was as if they were talking about my car :eek:

Now I wonder could it be that the bushes broke apart but cannot be seen by the human eye? At the time of the impact, the Cupra bushes were mounted. Since they are very stiff, I find it possible that instead of absorbing the impact like the original bushes, they transmitted it to the chassis and broke apart (or broke the chassis insead :-)). Any thoughts on that???

Thank God I have two Powerflex distributors in my country, by reading on their site it could be worthwile doing a complete bushing replacement on the whole car!

Powerflex

putting Powerflex bushes on your car will not fix the stiff steering, plus you already have the Cupra bushes fitted

you need to check anything that will rotate when the steering is turned, as i said the ball joint at the end of the lower arm, the upper shocker bearing, the track rod end at the end of the rack onto the hub

another problem you could have is that the rack is damaged inside

what make of tyres are you using ? i had a pair of Dunlops which wore at 45 degrees on the inner edge, the tracking was spot on when this happened

I guess you're right ric... How to check those components and determine they are faulty, especially the upper shocker bearing? Some of it is explained in the workshop manual. The language differences also make it hard to identify the exact components...

The steering rack is new, and was changed after the incident occured, the Cupra bushes on the other hand were there before the incident.

As for the tyres, I use Continental ContiSport2 (which are excellent tyres may I say), before them I used up a set of Dunlop SportMaxx (IMO, a very bad tyre).

Edited 31 October, 200916 yr by Juka
Forgot to answer.

Ken, I don't know what "full geometry" exactly means, I do know they connected all four wheels to a high-tech wheel alignment device (the suspension components are shown in 3D on their PC when they move the wheel/car). From there they chose the Fabia mk1 sport suspension, and by that accounts everything was not only within limits, but also on the almost perfect zero-tolerance values. Is that it?

That sounds like a computerised full geometry, but I can't be 100% certain because I don't know which measurements were or were not taken. I'd expect at minimum to measure toe-in/out, camber and castor angles for all 4 wheels, and the rear thurst axis, which is a comparison of the effective direction the rear "axle" points relative to the straight-ahead.

ric04vrs, thanks for the list! Because of language differences, could you please point which of the components these would be? I've taken the liberty to cut it out of the Fabia mk1 workshop manual.

I guess the "top shocker bearing" is not on this picture?

It isn't; the top bearing is effectively part of the top end of the front strut.

So I've been to the mechanic today... He noticed the wobbly wobbly handling. After an inspection from under the car he says it's the steering rack that has some play and causes the problems... I myself grabbed a hold of the track rod while holding the wheel and jiggling it while the mechanic was holding the steering wheel and I couldn't really feel anything :/ but there is play on the whole left wheel with the clicking noise coming from the left side (that is the side that got hit)...

Now I wonder, is it possible that the steering rack causes the tyres to wear out unevenly (although the wheel alignment is perfect)?

Second, did the official dealer really change the rack for a new one, I only remember it being squeaky clean and with new rubber boots. I guess that has to be a new one then.

What about the drive shaft? :/

Again I'm starting to feel lost and unable to help the car :-(

With rack and pinion steering there are 5 wear points related to the steering, rather than the suspension wishbone and strut/damper mounts:-

1) The point where the pinion meets the rack. Wear here is measured by seeing how far you can swing the wheel (engine and steering lock off) before the road wheels react. UK motoring law provides that this movement should be not more than 13mm.

2) Inner track rod ends where the rods meet the rack. There should be no discernable free play in these joints.

3) Outer TREs where the rods meet the steering arms. As (2) above.

Excess wear and free play here, or in the top or bottom swivels, could cause uneven tyre wear. In an extreme case, I've seen a worn-out bottom swivel where the (lady) owner had run the tyre through to the belts before seeking help. :eek:

I really can't see any reason why a driveshaft should cause tyre wear.

Going back to your OP, I'm wondering, has anyone checked that the LH wishbone and track rod are straight?

Thnx Ken for the insight! What exactly and where are the "top and bottom swivels"?

Tomorrow I'm going to another mechanic for a second opinion.

The thing that came to my mind is that after the incident when the rack was changed, it is most likely they literally changed only the rack and not the track rods and everything else that is connected to the rack itself (as I was told, they changed the rack not because of free play but because it was loosing oil!)! I got a quote for the left side track rods and everything that comes with it; ~60 eur, not that expensive I guess, and it just could be causing the free play felt in the connection of the track rod and the steering rack, rather than on the track rod and the wheel hub! Or am I getting something wrong here? :/

I've taken the liberty to compare the sound of my poor vRS and my uncles Octavia, you can hear the difference quite clearly (or not hear it as is the case with the Octavia).

About the bent wishbone/track rod, I guess that could be seen on the wheel alignment printout... Ah yes, after an hour search I finally found the printouts!!! Good thing one is before, and the other is after the incident! Here are the pictures!

The left being before and right the after incident wheel alignments. There are little pictures that show what the numbers mean. As I see it, the only real difference is the front left wheel camber is -0.5° more in than before, the measurements of the after are taken in milimeters instead of angles, and the after measurement has caster angle (the third measurement is untranslatable unfortunately, someone who translated, from whichever language was in the machine, translated literally so nothing really makes sense).

Will keep everyone posted on the updates.

In your exploded view above, part #15 is the lower swivel; the upper one is at the top of the damper unit (not shown).

Finally good news! After two long years, was it that hard to figure out?!

We put the car on the car-lift with me inside turning the wheel left-right, two mechanics were under there checking everything. After a few minutes of turning it at one point one of them said "stop", I stopped and he pinpointed the faulty part and started shaking it... Klik-klak-tong! The same sound from the movie, a faulty left track rod! Dear God was I relieved.

The decision is to change both the rods and ball joints on both sides as well as the bottom engine mount.

I am still amazed at how a few knowledgeable people maybe a few thousand kilometers away (you guys ) can also pinpoint the problem, and our mechanics (especially the official dealers!!!) are simply incompetent. Thank God I remembered this mechanic, unfortunately I only met him this summer, I guess I've been living in the dark untill now.

I won't rush and start celebrating right away, will wait up until everything is changed and then make my final statement :-)

Another update, after everything was disassembled and the new suspension components were about to be installed, the loud clicking noise could still be heard, even though nothing was connected, the noise was coming from inside the steering rack!

Final statement: mechanically defective steering rack as a result of hitting the side of the road at high speed.

Symptoms: loud clicking noise, unresponsive steering, unable to keep wheel tracking under load thus eating the inner tyre wall on both front tyres.

Remedy: a new steering rack.

As the story unfolds, it appears the officiall dealer in my city did not change the steering rack under warranty, rather they probably did something for themselves on account of a warranty claim on my car...

I've found a used KOYO steering rack (~280 EUR) since a new one is 900 EUR :-o and will get it installed in the car ASAP.

Will update after everything is set up.

Thanks for the update.

I'd have expected the damaged rack to show up as excess play at the steering wheel (see #13 above for UK limits on play) though.

My final update, finally

The steering rack was changed, the car drives like new!

It took quite some time to have everything done, possibly due to my mechanic (that disappointed me a bit) that had time for my car about every two weeks.

I was also very lucky to find an almost brand new steering rack, taken from the new Fabia 2, and have it fitted (my previous rack was a KOYO one, this one is TRW). The job was pretty simple, change the complete old steering rack and pump with the new steering rack and pump, but due to errors in communication the mechanic wanted to fit the new rack to my old pump which is not possible, then I explained it again to him to change everything, which he did (a bit unwillingly ) and in the end took off the new track end rods and put on my old ones (which are still good, but new is new) because he thought I was to return the other parts... I also had fitted new front antiroll bar rods, if that's how you say it, because the old ones were stuck. Basically, almost all the steering and suspension components are new.

The steering is precise, no more wobbling around, no free play at all at the steering wheel (which I actually noticed how bad it was once I felt the new one! That's my 2.5 years of driving on a defective one, I guess I got used to it...), no clicking sounds coming from the steering rack, and somehow the servo feels lighter when maneuvering at low speeds (eg. parking), I believe the inner tyre rubbing will be eliminated.

The lower engine mount was changed too, no more clacking sounds and jerking when accelerating in higher gears, although I still feel that the engine moves around and probably will wear out this mount in a year or two, that's why I'm having the old engine mount refitted to a stronger rubber (or metal? forgot to ask) fitting, resulting in a permanent fix.

There you have it, I'm glad that this chapter of my life is finally closed and life moves on, when I look at it now, two and a half years passed by in a flash.

I want to thank everyone in this thread for the support and help!

Cheers!

P.S. being a hair splitting guy as I am, I noticed something like a loose metal clanking sounds coming from the front left when tackling a bend quite briskly Other than the metal sound, there are no other symptoms, nothing is felt on the steering wheel. I think the sound was there before I had this exchange done. I think its something in the front left shock absorber assembly that could make this sound... Any quick thoughts or experiences?