Is there actually a quickshifter on the market?

I've read some info saying fit the 6 speed version, some saying the TT linkage and others saying neither makes a difference.

Whilst I'm here, how easy is it to retro fit a 6 speed box to a vRS?

Poxy 5 gears

Cheers

Sigma 5 speed Short Shift Kit for MK4 only by www.dieselgeek.com

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Forge Motorsport | Alloy Fabrication

Brilliant, thanks for the links!

Is it worth doing the 6 speed conversion? I'm guessing a second hand box wouldn't be too expensive, it's probably something that's worth looking at when I look into an LSD.

These are very nice: Precision Sport Shifter, Audi and VW

Personally I wouldn't bother with the 6 speed box. You'll just have to change gear more often, as I think 6th is the same ratio as 5th in our boxes. I haven't checked that though, just a rumour.

Unless there is another advantage of the 6 speed petrol gearbox?

Brilliant, cheers Bodge for the heads up.

I'm going to get an uprated clutch, lsd and short shift kit fitted then.

Just got to decide on brands now!

Personally I wouldn't bother with the 6 speed box. You'll just have to change gear more often, as I think 6th is the same ratio as 5th in our boxes. I haven't checked that though, just a rumour.

6-speed boxes on the Mk4 are a proper job - at least on diesels the first 5 gears were the same as on a 5-speed, and then the 6th gear was a further 20% higher. (EGS to ERF swap)

Also, 6-speed box will take more torque, has lower power loss thanks to twin final drives (separate drive for 5th and 6th) , and has much better clutch cylinder - it's centre driven and extremely rarely causes judder. This clutch will also take more torque. On the downside, the 6-spd box is a good 20kg heavier than 5-spd.

I did the 5-spd to 6-spd swap on my Octavia TDI, and due to the way the car was used (120mph+ drives across Europe several times a year), that gearbox actually paid for itself in fuel savings - it was a consistent 12% saving compared to 5-speed above 100mph.

Keep in mind that for the swap you need flywheel, clutch, gearbox , driveshafts and starter. And a 6-speed gear lever knob if you want to show the world you have 6-speed, though I kept my 5-speed one (the cabling to cabin is the same). The swap itself is lots and lots of bolts to undo/redo/torque, but relatively uncomplicated. The only tricky bit is to manouvre the 6-spd box into position - it is quite unwieldy. You also need to make a couple of new mounts for airco lines and I think the clutch piping needed reshaping.

Blimey! Cheers for that mate, sounds like a fair sized job.

Thanks for the heads up, excellent to hear from someone that's done it!

6-speed boxes on the Mk4 are a proper job - at least on diesels the first 5 gears were the same as on a 5-speed, and then the 6th gear was a further 20% higher. (EGS to ERF swap)

Also, 6-speed box will take more torque, has lower power loss thanks to twin final drives (separate drive for 5th and 6th) , and has much better clutch cylinder - it's centre driven and extremely rarely causes judder. This clutch will also take more torque. On the downside, the 6-spd box is a good 20kg heavier than 5-spd.

I did the 5-spd to 6-spd swap on my Octavia TDI, and due to the way the car was used (120mph+ drives across Europe several times a year), that gearbox actually paid for itself in fuel savings - it was a consistent 12% saving compared to 5-speed above 100mph.

Keep in mind that for the swap you need flywheel, clutch, gearbox , driveshafts and starter. And a 6-speed gear lever knob if you want to show the world you have 6-speed, though I kept my 5-speed one (the cabling to cabin is the same). The swap itself is lots and lots of bolts to undo/redo/torque, but relatively uncomplicated. The only tricky bit is to manouvre the 6-spd box into position - it is quite unwieldy. You also need to make a couple of new mounts for airco lines and I think the clutch piping needed reshaping.

Your talking about the diesel 6 speed box though, which obviously has totally different ratios. If you put 7000rpm through 6th gear in the diesel 6 speed, you'd theoretically hit over 200mph!!

There was a thread about this the other day, I'll look it up.....

Here:

http://briskoda.net/octavia-i/gearboxes-ones-can-we-use/158475/

Most comments that I made are valid for any Mk4 6-speed box when you compare it to 5-speed box.

Basically, 6-spd box is better made, has better clutch and lower drive losses in 5th and 6th.

I did not suggest putting diesel box in a petrol VRS, just stated that at least on diesels the first 5 gears were the same as the 5-spd box and the 6th one added 20% so it was a good upgrade.

Regarding gear ratios yes, you need gearbox from petrol version - were there ever any FWD VR6 Mk4 Golfs? That'd probably have higher ( but not much higher) ratios and still fit. Also, it's quite possible that Mk5 box could fit, though I did not look into it. There were considerably more powerful petrol engines on FWD Mk5, 2.0 turbo for example, so I'd expect longer gearing on them.

Having a Mk1 Seat LCR, and a Mk1 VRS, i have 5 and 6 speed gearboxes, in fairly similar MK4 Golf based cars.

Id have the 6 speed every day of the week. 6th is better for motorways that the VRS 5th, and 1st-4th in the 6 speed would make the VRS much more natural when driving fast, and would probably knock 0.5 of a sec off the 0-60.

ERF gearbox gives out about 33mph/1000rpm

Warning: no idea if all these gearbox codes are FWD, some may be 4WD.

Final drive ratios in 6th for 6-spd boxes only:

DRW - 2.10

ERF - 2.12

EFF - 2.19

DRV,FEK,FEL,ERG - 2.34

EUJ - 2.38

ESW - 2.47

EDJ - 2.48

FBS,FEM - 2.51

ERR,FML,FSR - 3.00

DRP - 3.02

ERE - 3.19

EEJ - 3.21

As you can see, DRV,FEK,FEL,ERG,EUJ gearbox upgrade makes perfect sense if you cruise a lot on motorway.

It would cruise at 70mph / 2500rpm and have top speed of 164mph/5800rpm. Of course, you would need 240bhp+ power to match the top end

6-th gear useable speed range would be 56mph-163mph.

ESW,EDJ,FBS,FEM gearboxes should be the perfect fit if you want autobahn cruise mode (59mph - 173mph) and/or have significant power increase (270bhp+).

It would cruise at 75mph / 2500rpm and top speed of 173mph/5800rpm.

Incidentally, diesel ERF gearbox would still make perfect sense for ultimate fuel economy on autobahn, though you could fall asleep on acceleration

ERF would cruise at 82mph/2500rpm and allow speeds of 66mph - ~168mph+ using a 270bhp+ engine. If the 1.8T engine is chipped there is enough torque - it will have the same torque as an unmodded TDI110 diesel in this rev range.

I used Wetterauer power/torque graphs for these calculations.

By the way, I do not know where people take 7000 peak rpm from, the maximum power rpms are at 5800rpm or thereabouts, also for modded engines (under 280bhp).

If anyone goes to 7000rpm it is exactly because the car is gear limited and not power limited - but that costs a lot of fuel and engine wear.

The other thread quoted earlier

http://briskoda.net/octavia-i/gearbo...we-use/158475/

is completely wrong in the calculations.

Brilliant, cheers Bodge for the heads up.

I'm going to get an uprated clutch, lsd and short shift kit fitted then.

Just got to decide on brands now!

Righto, just to confirm things that I mentioned before, and to quantify the rumour! Speaking strictly of front wheel drive petrol cars.

_____________

6-speed 02M (FZQ) gearbox from a Seat Leon Cupra R (BAM engine):

1st - 3.357

2nd - 2.087

3rd - 1.469

4th - 1.150

5th - 1.194

6th - 0.975

Final drive 1st-4th - 3.944

Final drive 5th-6th - 3.087

So in 6th gear @ 6000rpm you'd see 149mph

_____________

5-speed 02J (EHA) gearbox from a Skoda Octavia RS (AUQ engine):

1st - 3.300

2nd - 1.944

3rd - 1.308

4th - 1.034

5th - 0.838

Final drive 1st-5th - 3.647

So in 5th gear @ 6000rpm you'd see 146mph

_____________

Those speeds are estimated using the circumference of a 205/50R17 tyre. The reason I chose 6000rpm is because that's what Skoda use to quote the top speed of the RS.

Apparently the 02M is stronger, but heavier and bigger, and far from a straight swap. So you only really need it if you're pushing muchos power/torque with a big turbo.

HTH mate.

The point I am making is that you do not need gearbox from Seat Leon Cupra - you can get it from any Mk4 VW group car, with diesel models obviously catering better for torque.

DRV, ERG, EUJ, ESW, EDJ gearboxes are all from diesel models - I bet some are used in Mk5 too...

For 1.8T 180 bhp engine it is common to go to 240bhp electronically, and even to 270bhp with some mechanical modifications (intercooler among other things).

6000rpm may well be top speed rpm but is not top power rpm - and this shows the car is gearing limited. You would get higher top speed with slightly longer gearing and keeping engine at 5800rpm.

Add modified engine and suddenly the diesel gearbox sounds like a very good idea indeed.

Edited 6 November, 200916 yr by dieselV6

The point I am making is that you do not need gearbox from Seat Leon Cupra - you can get it from any Mk4 VW group car, with diesel models obviously catering better for torque.

DRV, ERG, EUJ, ESW, EDJ gearboxes are all from diesel models - I bet some are used in Mk5 too...

For 1.8T 180 bhp engine it is common to go to 240bhp electronically, and even to 270bhp with some mechanical modifications (intercooler among other things).

6000rpm may well be top speed rpm but is not top power rpm - and this shows the car is gearing limited. You would get higher top speed with slightly longer gearing and keeping engine at 5800rpm.

Add modified engine and suddenly the diesel gearbox sounds like a very good idea indeed.

I wasn't referring to your post to be honest! I was just clearing up what I said in post #5. I just wanted to know what the LCR had in it, and what it is capable of.

Oh and just as a heads up, you'll never see 240bhp just with a remap, and you'll also never see 270bhp without fitting a bigger turbo, the k03s just can't do it. Most you'll see just with a remap is about 210bhp, and the most I've ever heard of from a 1.8T k03s engine is about 250bhp with nitrous!

Thanks for all the info on diesel boxes

:rofl:.....no stop it, my ribs......:rofl:

On 05/11/2009 at 13:26, tsp said:

Brilliant, cheers Bodge for the heads up.

I'm going to get an uprated clutch, lsd and short shift kit fitted then.

Just got to decide on brands now!

Did you ever complete this gearbox fitting, I.e. 6 speed Leon cupra r petrol to your 1.8t vrs occy. I'm looking at doing this next few weeks. 

Cheers