Stuck in the snow

[Mr Ree]

I decided to get up early yesterday to avoid the expected crowds and hoardes of families, to go for a walk up my favourite local hill, Moel Famau.

Within just 5 miles, everywhere started to turn white. They'd apparently had a pretty major 'dumping' the night before when the rest of us were receiving lashings of rain it seems.

Got to my normal parking area, and was confronted with ice and 12" of fresh virgin snow.

I decided that to create a parking spot for myself that I'd drive the Fabia backwards and forwards to make myself a decent flat area to leave the car on for a couple of hours.

Tracks nicely laid I just checked to make sure I could still get out without bother.

No wheelspin, no problem.

Got my clobber on, had a fag, surveyed the white peaceful surroundings, then decided to try moving the car out just one more time....really don't know why tbh, just did.

Car would not move an inch. Backwards or forwards, no pointless revving, just letting the clutch out. tried moving the wheel lock to lock, but to no avail.

Forunately 30 minutes later after futile attempts to find suitable vegetation to throw under the wheels, the man that daily comes to unlock the bogs and gates arrived in his son's Disco, and gladly hitched me up for 2 foot tow to release me.

Now what I want to know, and can't quite fathom out, is WHY and HOW did the car become stuck after just 15 minutes after it had previously moved with ease?

Something to do with the tyres cooling down? Ice forming under the tyre p'raps?

I really can't decide, but snow parkers, beware!

[Anthony 1]

A couple of things could have happened. One the ASR could be cutting the power. Two, the area that you cleared off by moving the car backward and forwards turned fresh uncompressed snow into compressed snow/ice. Fresh snow provides far more grip than compacted snow which in turn more than ice. Buy some winter tyres for each corner!

[VWD]

Did you try using second gear at any stage .Possibly as said ,mistake was to make any more movement than absolutely necessary .Not so sure about winter tyres -never fitted them in over forty years of RWD and FWD driving .Fitted T &C to one RWD ,and had T & C fitted to one van -in both cases regular trips meant single track road with soft grass verges .OK inmud and possibly deep snow .

[domhnall]

I reckon you have compacted the snow into ice and that's been your undoing. Winter tyres are the way ahead. Have a look around the net and you'll see that standard tyres start to lose their grip progressively once you dip below 9 degrees, add in wet road and it just gets worse. We've been dumped on by snow for two weeks now, fresh snow every day for 15 days. Even 4x4s have been stuck if they have standard road tyres.

[MoggyTech]

Heat soak from wheels and tyres turns compacted snow into water which then quickly freezes. Also the snow caught in the tyre tread pattern freezes, equals four tyres that aint going anywhere.

[VWD]

I reckon you have compacted the snow into ice and that's been your undoing. Winter tyres are the way ahead. Have a look around the net and you'll see that standard tyres start to lose their grip progressively once you dip below 9 degrees, add in wet road and it just gets worse. We've been dumped on by snow for two weeks now, fresh snow every day for 15 days. Even 4x4s have been stuck if they have standard road tyres.

As said - my home ground - A830 .And in those days,my car -well first it was a Wolesley 1500 ,then an Austin A40 -did we get stuck - did we F .No snow tyres (possibly Town & country),just a shovel in boot ,and some tyre flaps .And of course some knowledge of how to drive in bad weather ,and a respect for the weather .No hard braking for more than a second ,no hard acceleration , and use second to take away .We used to get out and enjoy ( and not try to get stuck) .And knew where the salt piles were

The trick is to take away WITHOUT wheel spin

Edited 2 January, 2010 by VWD

[Buster]

I had to be pushed out of the carpark behind me house, because of the tyre tracks freezing. Also, the ABS on my Fabia Vrs must have a hair trigger, cos even the slightest touch of brake on the ice, and it's juddering all the way - not fun! I honestly thought there was something wrong with my brakes. First time in the nearly 6 years I've had the car that I've ben forced to use the ASR.

[Lady Elanore]

I guess all this snow and ice we have had over the last couple of winters raises the question of whether we are going to have winters like we used to have? If so, then winter tyres are a perfect solution, if it was just a phase and we’ll be back to mild winters from next year, it will seem a waste of money. Guess we won’t know for another 11 months or so

[VWD]

I guess all this snow and ice we have had over the last couple of winters raises the question of whether we are going to have winters like we used to have? If so, then winter tyres are a perfect solution, if it was just a phase and we’ll be back to mild winters from next year, it will seem a waste of money. Guess we won’t know for another 11 months or so

Or ,JUST, PERHAPS, A return to the days of learning to drive in bad weather ,with a soft left foot ,and an even softer right foot . LIKE ALL OF US OLD WRINKLIES DID .

We learned how to drive in snow/iceetc - perhaps it's time today;s driversdid toooooooooo

[VWD]

I guess all this snow and ice we have had over the last couple of winters raises the question of whether we are going to have winters like we used to have? If so, then winter tyres are a perfect solution, if it was just a phase and we’ll be back to mild winters from next year, it will seem a waste of money. Guess we won’t know for another 11 months or so

Or ,JUST, PERHAPS, A return to the days of learning to drive in bad weather ,with a soft left foot ,and an even softer right foot . LIKE ALL OF US OLD WRINKLIES DID .

We learned how to drive in snow/iceetc - perhaps it's time today;s driversdid toooooooooo

[Lady Elanore]

Or ,JUST, PERHAPS, A return to the days of learning to drive in bad weather ,with a soft left foot ,and an even softer right foot . LIKE ALL OF US OLD WRINKLIES DID .

We learned how to drive in snow/iceetc - perhaps it's time today;s driversdid toooooooooo

As one of the old wrinkles myself (full license for the last 29 years) I did learn to drive with a soft left foot in pretty heavy snow (my folks live in a hilly bit of Co Durham) I don’t see why taking advantage of superior tyres technology should be dismissed. I know how to cadence brake, but I prefer to have ABS, similarly I like Winter tyres as they provide relatively great traction and braking in snow/ice/slush etc. If I knew the weather was going to be repeatedly like it is now, I would make sure I always had a spare set of cheapo wheels and winter tyres on standby.

[Clunkclick]

IMHO braking in snow/ice in modern cars is more fraught with danger than on older models because brakes are so much more efficient.

There isn't as much slack in the hyrdraulic and mechanical systems. From memory, I felt much more comfortable in snow and ice conditions with the "Spongiform" hydraulics on vehicles of the yesteryear.

With my Fab I've only been able to tap the brakes for couple of seconds, otherwise they go on full and lock-up the wheels. Further, with the minimal levels of grip available and very slow rolling speeds achievable over the last couple of weeks, Ive found that the traction control is next to useless, if not a hindrance, 'cause it can't detect slightly slipping wheels at very low wheel revs.

Also, the difference in pedal depression between brakes fully-off and and full-lock-up is next to nothing - this may be because the all the pads and discs were replaced last year.

I do feel that modern vehicles could do with a brake degrader for these conditions and some sort of hand control - perhaps a cut-down version of the descent control systems in 4 x 4s.

This might be facilitated if brakes went fully drive by wire, so that actuation was electro mechanical all the time. Energy recovery rather than friction braking would probably be ideal.

With the weather conditions switching as rapidily as they do, I feel the extra costs would be offset by improved safety.

Nick

Edited 3 January, 2010 by Clunkclick

[VWD]

Possibly one of the advantages of the really old cars wasthe size of the wheel ( and tyre) .Great big ones - were even better if you fitted next size tyre( eg 195 instead of 175 etc) .The only real advantage was the birth of radial tyres .

Sorry to rufflefeathers ,Lady E -, bit was thinking more of sliding around on Highland single track roads in things like A40 's ,some forty odd years ago .The nearest thing to winter tyres wereTown and Country . Gritting didn't exist ( least waysnot where I lived ) ,and the one time we saw a snough plough ,it was sitting in a ditch ,blocking the road -your fate if you were unlucky . This is the first one with ABS-and in ice/snow don't like it -prefer to opt out and cadence brake to stop it cutting in .

[bandit1]

When I was a lad in my mini's & MK2 Escorts, the tyre widths were 165, 185 max.

The Engines had a significantly lower power output, that was normally aspirated, so no peaky turbo's !

There were no traction controls systems to cut in, you learned to slide & spin in a controlled manner.

Whilst the TCS helps in many situations, they can be a right PITA sometimes

[Mr Ree]

Heat soak from wheels and tyres turns compacted snow into water which then quickly freezes. Also the snow caught in the tyre tread pattern freezes, equals four tyres that aint going anywhere.

I like that explanation. It seems feasable and would explain why the car moved freely for the first five minutes only.

I was damned annoyed with my stupidity.

Next time I park on fresh thick snow, I'll make sure I leave the front tyres on my old rubber mats.