Please let me know when you guys are finding the fastest way around a country road hairpin . I will stay at home that day .

What a helpful comment! Point well and truly missed

Another good thread guys; has made for more useful reading.

Steve

Ok progress.

Braking

There's a measurable difference in the braking distance (almost a full car length improvement from 40 mph) if i start braking sooner with light pressure (consciously "priming") then exponentially increase braking pressure vs. depress the pedal at a constant rate (quickly) up to near the point i'd previously learned would trigger ABS. This is completely counter intuitive. I would never have discovered this through self learning.

I could be tempted to fit one of the polybush anti-dive kits to the front of this car because now i'm conscious i can (repeatedly) really make it stand on it's nose (where previously i have experienced this sensation but never fully understood why it happens rarely). While i don't expect to use this level of braking except maybe on a track (you'd have to previously break some rules in "the system" to need this level of braking even on fast road driving i would think), it would be more comforting to know the weight to transfer is ultimately loading up the tyres rather than being absorbed in a coil spring.

Ultimately it's the technique that's important and i can choose how much pressure to apply. I can't modulate the braking yet, i can only (as yet) choose to apply or remove, because small changes end up with a jerky feeling.

I clamped the vacuum line running to the brake servo in a car park. After a few tries to remove any leftover assistance available, i tried again but i can't really say brake feel was improved, just needed more effort that's all. Probably should have been the expected outcome all along i guess.

Have decided to treat the car to some new pads all round & a brake fluid change after all this hard work over the past week. Last inspection i did on this car (~2 weeks ago) the pads were only 3/4 way through their life (good quality PAGIDs ) but i can tell the difference in fade now so i will be changing ahead of schedule.

Steering

Chris, the Don Palmer link initially i didn't really rate (seemed very light on detail) but now i've gone back and discovered the meaty content. Have gone through his discussion of slip angles and the quarter second front + back -- that makes sense to me and i can feel the change that happens as the tyres "wake up" at the front. Ideally i would like to setup some instrumentation to actually measure my steering.

I can't help comparing this to playing golf. I could swear blind my head wasn't moving during my swing but play back the video and there it was -- my head moving. I eliminated that with a video camera & 2 hour practice. I'm thinking a video camera, but ideally some actual measurement of steering input against time would be helpful too.

General Approach

Things don't happen as fast now, it's not a rush. I feel more relaxed, and consequently much more in control during the turn. I can now consciously make minor adjustments mid corner, that's cool to have improved this much.

Next Steps

Find out who owns this road. Although it's mapped and has a B-number assigned, I've never actually seen another car (although i always expect some to appear) on this road but i have seen walkers & a cyclist last summer. I understand it used to be quite important and served 2 mines which used to exist a few miles on the other side of the hill, it leads nowhere now. Would be good to get permission to take a few friends along to close the road off and use it as a track for a day.

Contiune to practice on the hairpin. Practice it coming back the way, it becomes a harder right hander especially if you're not cutting the lines. The eventual goal of all this practice is to be able to apply it to neatly negotiate a hairpin on a normal journey.

Experiment more with transition from braking to acceleration. Just now there's a big dead zone in time when changing from braking to throttle then finally the car lurches into lift + acceleration. Maybe the solution is to overlap the end of braking with the start of acceleration? This will be difficult, probably outwith my footwork skill.

Find a (recommended) tutor locally to hopefully improve more on my car control, then i need to study / learn the system, then finally start the Rospa ROADAR (have previously focussed / improved other aspects of my driving: observations; highway code knowledge; mechanical understanding etc.).

Great news, Craig!

Braking

While i don't expect to use this level of braking except maybe on a track (you'd have to previously break some rules in "the system" to need this level of braking even on fast road driving i would think), it would be more comforting to know the weight to transfer is ultimately loading up the tyres rather than being absorbed in a coil spring.

I thhink firm braking can easily be part of the System, but the difference is when you are trail braking up to a hazard. The System says that you should arrive at the hazard in the correct position on the road, at the correct speed and in the correct gear and suggests that this is achieved by separating each of the phases so the braking will be completed before the gear change which in turn is completed before arriving at the hazard. Of course, it is not implicitly bad to overlap braking and gear changing and the key thing is that if used it should be part of a planned approach and not as a result of getting it horribly wrong

Ultimately it's the technique that's important and i can choose how much pressure to apply. I can't modulate the braking yet, i can only (as yet) choose to apply or remove, because small changes end up with a jerky feeling.

It's worth looking at what might be causing the jerkiness and see if it is down to man or machine. I recently bought some thin-soled trainers and this increased the pedal feel significantly over my regular old trainers.

Steering

Chris, the Don Palmer link initially i didn't really rate (seemed very light on detail) but now i've gone back and discovered the meaty content. Have gone through his discussion of slip angles and the quarter second front + back -- that makes sense to me and i can feel the change that happens as the tyres "wake up" at the front. Ideally i would like to setup some instrumentation to actually measure my steering.

I can't help comparing this to playing golf. I could swear blind my head wasn't moving during my swing but play back the video and there it was -- my head moving. I eliminated that with a video camera & 2 hour practice. I'm thinking a video camera, but ideally some actual measurement of steering input against time would be helpful too.

I've spent a few days with Don and he does make the contents of the handbook very easily digestible in person and he also has a number of exercises to demonstrate various bits of it which helps reinforce what he's saying.

The video camera is certainly a good idea and I've certainly found that passengers in the car can easily see problems I'd not noticed. Telemetry coupled with the video would be useful, although the kits aren't cheap and I've never been brave enough to offer my driving up for analysis

The other thing to consider is would you approach it differently in the BMW?

General Approach

Things don't happen as fast now, it's not a rush. I feel more relaxed, and consequently much more in control during the turn. I can now consciously make minor adjustments mid corner, that's cool to have improved this much.

That is good to hear - one of the other tips I was given (which may or may not be ideal on a hairpin!) is to look where you want the car to go. You will (subconsciously?) steer the car towards where you are looking.

Experiment more with transition from braking to acceleration. Just now there's a big dead zone in time when changing from braking to throttle then finally the car lurches into lift + acceleration. Maybe the solution is to overlap the end of braking with the start of acceleration? This will be difficult, probably outwith my footwork skill.

If you imagine a deceleration/acceleration graph, the important part is the transition between the two (as that's what the passengers will feel). A "flat spot" while moving from the brake to the accelerator isn't a problem so what you need to make sure is that you're coming off the brakes smoothly and then getting on the accelerator smoothly and the transition will manage itself. Again, you can use "hinting" and squeeze the throttle pedal to take up slack before firming up the pressure on it. Of course, if you have three feet (like Andy Walsh) then it makes everything much easier to overlap

Find a (recommended) tutor locally to hopefully improve more on my car control, then i need to study / learn the system, then finally start the Rospa ROADAR (have previously focussed / improved other aspects of my driving: observations; highway code knowledge; mechanical understanding etc.).

Sounds like you're well on the way - let us know how you get on

Chris

Please let me know when you guys are finding the fastest way around a country road hairpin . I will stay at home that day .

ScoobyChris will be doing this somewhere in Hampshire every day for the next 40 years or so. Craig and I will be doing it somewhere in Scotland. Thanks for the extra roadspace!

Ok, I'll be serious; read the whole thread properly, and realise that we are advocating working on better car control and observation, not tyre-squealing round blind bends way above the speed you can actually see through them at.

Edited 4 March, 201016 yr by KenONeill