A work colleague is considering this engine in an Octy and because I know next to nothing about it I thought I'd ask. All I know it's replacing the old 1.9. What's it like? Has anyone had problems with it?

Thanks in advance.

Martyn

A work colleague is considering this engine in an Octy and because I know next to nothing about it I thought I'd ask. All I know it's replacing the old 1.9. What's it like? Has anyone had problems with it?

Thanks in advance.

Martyn

My wife has the same engine in her new Golf.Its as flat as a pancake compared with the 1.9. It has same power output as 1.9 and same torque but it doesn't seem to respond as well low down.

My wife has the same engine in her new Golf.Its as flat as a pancake compared with the 1.9. It has same power output as 1.9 and same torque but it doesn't seem to respond as well low down.

I've covered over 16,000 miles in mine since new back in November. It's not as quick as my old PD140, but it's a lot smoother and quieter. My experience of the 1.9 is one of horror on the few occasions I've had one as a courtesy car. The 1.9 is positively agricultural in comparison.

The 1.6 is a bit flat at very low revs but, once you get above around 2,000rpm, it pulls strongly up to the red line. It's not going to win any traffic-light drag races, but it doesn't feel underpowered.

The average fuel economy since new for mine (Mainly motorway miles with cruise control set at an indicated 70 - the rest around town) is around 54mpg - this is measured using brim to brim and averaged out over every fill-up since new, so I know it's 100% accurate. The trip computer over reads by around 5%. It's easily the most economical car I've ever owned. There are plenty of people out there who make outrageous claims for the fuel economy of some old crate, but they're almost always lying.

If you want a nice smooth modern diesel with good fuel economy and aren't that worried about absolute performance, you'll love the 1.6D.

That's amazing economy. I get 47mpg from my 2l PDI diesel at present. I bought a pre reg instead of a 1.6CR as there was a very long wait .

54 is pretty good! I get 49 long term average out of my 2.0TDI PD DSG (though this is a Maxidot reading, not brim to brim!)

Edited 13 March, 201016 yr by gorebrush

I was going to make up my mind to buy a 1.6 Tdi CR untill I read the threads in this forum giving the negative comments on the power output. So I went for a test drive today......the outcome, completely cleared my worries. the car was not fast but far from being 'dangerously underpower'! I don't normally drive fast so this car suits me perfectly. It's quiet and smooth, has actually a reasonable pace to catch up with the trafic. test driving it on an A road I overtook a few cars and felt safe with the power when I need it. The dealer was very keen and friendly, when I showed him the lowest price I quoted on internet he was more then happy to match that plus a fantastic low rate finance. I placed the order and now I'm waiting with all the excitment.

I was going to make up my mind to buy a 1.6 Tdi CR untill I read the threads in this forum giving the negative comments on the power output. So I went for a test drive today......the outcome, completely cleared my worries. the car was not fast but far from being 'dangerously underpower'! I don't normally drive fast so this car suits me perfectly. It's quiet and smooth, has actually a reasonable pace to catch up with the trafic. test driving it on an A road I overtook a few cars and felt safe with the power when I need it. The dealer was very keen and friendly, when I showed him the lowest price I quoted on internet he was more then happy to match that plus a fantastic low rate finance. I placed the order and now I'm waiting with all the excitment.

At the risk of offending the more "gung-ho" of the contributors to this forum (do I care? Nah;-)), the most important part of any car is the driver. Anyone who thinks the 1.6D is underpowered was probably in a car with a fault with this particular component. To be blunt, if you know how to drive properly, you don't need as much power.

If you really go for it, you can get fantastic fuel economy. On a journey back from Mancheser to my home to the North of Bristol, I managed an average of 68mpg on the maxi-dot, which probaly means around 63mpg in the real world. This was with some roadworks and some stop and start at either end of the journey - I also had a full load in the boot. I'm guessing, with an empty car and driving at between 50 and 60mph, you could probably achieve the brochure figure, but you really would have to be driving on the edge of your seat and it wouldn't be a pleasant journey.

I've covered over 16,000 miles in mine since new back in November. It's not as quick as my old PD140, but it's a lot smoother and quieter.

Silk from usenet , I presume?

A work colleague is considering this engine in an Octy and because I know next to nothing about it I thought I'd ask. All I know it's replacing the old 1.9. What's it like? Has anyone had problems with it?

Thanks in advance.

Martyn

Your colleague's dilemma is very like the one I faced some weeks back. If truth be told and the old 1.9 TDI wasn't being phased out, I would now be driving a new Octavia with that engine - I had an Ibiza with that engine some years back and the performance was brilliant. Noisy? A bit. Agricultural? I think that's overegging it. Anyway, I recently ended up going for the 1.4 TSI which I'm pleased with (but that's another story).

So why didn't I go for the new 1.6 TDI? Put simply, I enjoy my driving. And when I reviewed road tests by car mags (and more importantly by owners) the same theme recurred, even more so with the green / eco variants. Smooth engine, great economy BUT... And after the "but", whether intentionally or subconsciously, came the same caveats time after time after time. And the same has happened with the postings on this topic. Let me lift a few from above:

"...it doesn't seem to respond as well low down..."

"The 1.6 is a bit flat at very low revs..."

"It's not going to win any traffic-light drag races..."

"if you ... aren't that worried about absolute performance"

"...the car was not fast"

"if you know how to drive properly, you don't need as much power"

To my mind, that degree and consistency of qualification is enough to cast doubt if you are someone who enjoys driving and likes to shift it a bit. To be fair, the road test reference to "dangerous" performance in the wider media (mentioned in an earlier post) was an isolated one and referred to a very specific circumstance, ie. entering a roundabout in a gear which left the driver struggling to exit safely with other faster traffic around. I wouldn't put too much store in that one test but in answer to anyone who might immediately point the finger of blame at poor driving I would equally push back and say that no modern car should be that unforgiving in normal driving circumstances.

Incidentally, I should add that the problem is not necessarily with the engine, it may well be the gearing. Add in the emerging DPF problem (that's another story as well) and I'm afraid the 1.6 TDI wasn't for me. All of that of course doesn't mean that it's not for your colleague, who should go and test drive it (properly - for at least a day), then make their own mind up.

Edited 14 March, 201016 yr by Cauliflower

Silk from usenet , I presume?

Of course. Only a slightly better behaved version.

Anyway, why are you here? You don't have a Skoda.

Your colleague's dilemma is very like the one I faced some weeks back. If truth be told and the old 1.9 TDI wasn't being phased out, I would now be driving a new Octavia with that engine - I had an Ibiza with that engine some years back and the performance was brilliant. Noisy? A bit. Agricultural? I think that's overegging it. Anyway, I recently ended up going for the 1.4 TSI which I'm pleased with (but that's another story).

I think you're either being a bit selective with the fact here. All the downsides of the 1.6D apply equally to the 1.9D. The difference being, the 1.6D has a flatter torque curve and has more useful power higher up the rev range (this is bourne out in the way it drives as well as how it looks on paper) and, most importantly, it's at least 10% more fuel efficient and probably nearer 20%. In short: there's nothing about the 1.9 that's better than the 1.6

So why didn't I go for the new 1.6 TDI? Put simply, I enjoy my driving.

So do I. I also know that driving isn't all about absolute performance. Good driving is as much about getting the most out of the car than simply racing it.

And when I reviewed road tests by car mags (and more importantly by owners) the same theme recurred, even more so with the green / eco variants. Smooth engine, great economy BUT... And after the "but", whether intentionally or subconsciously, came the same caveats time after time after time. And the same has happened with the postings on this topic. Let me lift a few from above:

"...it doesn't seem to respond as well low down..."

"The 1.6 is a bit flat at very low revs..."

"It's not going to win any traffic-light drag races..."

"if you ... aren't that worried about absolute performance"

"...the car was not fast"

"if you know how to drive properly, you don't need as much power"

To my mind, that degree and consistency of qualification is enough to cast doubt if you are someone who enjoys driving and likes to shift it a bit. To be fair, the road test reference to "dangerous" performance in the wider media (mentioned in an earlier post) was an isolated one and referred to a very specific circumstance, ie. entering a roundabout in a gear which left the driver struggling to exit safely with other faster traffic around. I wouldn't put too much store in that one test but in answer to anyone who might immediately point the finger of blame at poor driving I would equally push back and say that no modern car should be that unforgiving in normal driving circumstances.

Incidentally, I should add that the problem is not necessarily with the engine, it may well be the gearing. Add in the emerging DPF problem (that's another story as well) and I'm afraid the 1.6 TDI wasn't for me. All of that of course doesn't mean that it's not for your colleague, who should go and test drive it (properly - for at least a day), then make their own mind up.

It sounds to me like you need to drive it rather than read about it.

My wife has the same engine in her new Golf.Its as flat as a pancake compared with the 1.9. It has same power output as 1.9 and same torque but it doesn't seem to respond as well low down.

You just need to adapt your driving style. The 1.6 likes to be driven a bit harder than the 1.9. The torque curve is more petrol-like. That's why it seems a bit flat. I find getting into a petrol car is a similar experience until you remember you have to give it a bit more welly.

I was going to make up my mind to buy a 1.6 Tdi CR untill I read the threads in this forum giving the negative comments on the power output. So I went for a test drive today......the outcome, completely cleared my worries. the car was not fast but far from being 'dangerously underpower'! I don't normally drive fast so this car suits me perfectly. It's quiet and smooth, has actually a reasonable pace to catch up with the trafic. test driving it on an A road I overtook a few cars and felt safe with the power when I need it. The dealer was very keen and friendly, when I showed him the lowest price I quoted on internet he was more then happy to match that plus a fantastic low rate finance. I placed the order and now I'm waiting with all the excitment.

It's interesting that those who've actually driven one have an almost opposite opinion to those who haven't. I'll leave it to the reader to make up their mind. In the end though, you really do have to try one. On the twisty stuff in 3rd and 4th gear, it's actually a lot of fun.

It sounds to me like you need to drive it rather than read about it.

It sounds to me like you shouldn't make off-the-cuff assumptions.

I did.

For two days.

And the experience matched everything that has been written.

But my experience is an individual, time-limited experience which is why it is wise to test drive AND listen to the wider opinion.

Edited 14 March, 201016 yr by Cauliflower

Of course. Only a slightly better behaved version.

Anyway, why are you here? You don't have a Skoda.

Habit.

After more than 6 years it's hard to leave

We've had an Octavia 1.6 diesel for about two weeks and, I must admit, it is taking a bit of getting used to.

It is very perky in 2nd and 3rd, 4th is like an overdrive and 5th is like a super-overdrive - at 70mph the engine is doing 2000 revs.

What is disconcerting is that there is no way that you can enter a roundabout at slow speed in 3rd, so that means that you must remember to be in 2nd, or you will have problems.

In my opinion this situation is nothing to do with the engine, but everything to do with the gearing of the car. We are very impressed with the fuel economy, so we are happy to accept the change in driving habits to achieve that.

All in all, a very good car.

Interesting read, this. The comparisons between the 1.9 and the 1.6 are very similar to that between the 2 cars on my drive. My 1.9TDi 4.4, and swmbos 1.9 Fiat Doblo. Mine pulls from almost nothing, where the Fiat needs to be revved more. could it be that the VAG engines are modernising more slowly than others, who have reached some sort of parity in performance between diesel and petrol?

It sounds to me like you shouldn't make off-the-cuff assumptions.

I did.

For two days.

And the experience matched everything that has been written.

But my experience is an individual, time-limited experience which is why it is wise to test drive AND listen to the wider opinion.

To be fair, you didn't mention anywhere that I could see that you'd actually driven the car. I was just pointing out that it seemed to me that the criticisms were largely from people who'd never actually driven one.

I understand that owning one is going to taint any truly objective opinion as people tend to want to big-up their own car and I'm no exception. That's why I'm trying my best to stick to the facts as I see them, especially when it comes to fuel economy, which trumps everything in my case as I do around 50,000 mies a year which I claim for by the mile but pay for by the litre - that goes a hell of a long way towards forgiving its shortcomings, of which there are a few. My argument is, they're no different to the shortcomings of any diesel, especially one where fuel economy and emmisions take center stage. Bearing in mind these compromises, it does extremely well.

In short, it's smooth, quiet, economical, doesn't blow black smoke out of the back at the slightest provocation and is powerful enough for most people. I would agree that the shortcomings are largely due to the gearing. It really needs the 5 gears to be lowered and a 6th put on top. It would also benefit hugely from DSG, but I'm guessing they may have trouble getting the emissions down to an acceptable level.

If enjoying driving is all about being first away from the lights, it's not the car for you. If enjoying driving is all about getting the most out of the car and a pride in driving smoothly, then it won't dissapoint.

Habit.

After more than 6 years it's hard to leave

But a Fiat? Are you mad?

Interesting read, this. The comparisons between the 1.9 and the 1.6 are very similar to that between the 2 cars on my drive. My 1.9TDi 4.4, and swmbos 1.9 Fiat Doblo. Mine pulls from almost nothing, where the Fiat needs to be revved more. could it be that the VAG engines are modernising more slowly than others, who have reached some sort of parity in performance between diesel and petrol?

totally agree. Characteristics of a modern CR diesel are far removed from the Tdi's, not that was anyting wrong with them at thetime (or indeed now if they meet your needs).

I moved from a 105 hp 1.9tdi to a 143 hp 2.0 CR in the BMW diesel. The BMW is much more petrol like in its power delivery in that it like revs and gear changes. It has more power and torque on paper but there is no way that it can pull from almost idling revs that the Tdi could.

Edited 14 March, 201016 yr by slider

Very interesting thread. I need to get a diesel this year (doing too many miles) but have a dilemma.

I am fully acquainted with a vintage Tdi (in an MPV). Also had a 1.3Cdti Corsa for 18 months. The two are as different as chalk and cheese.

The VAG Tdi is slowish and a bit noisy (but in a friendly way) but so so predicatable, reliable and laid back - it will do anything you ask including pull off from a standstill in 3rd gear. The low speed tractability is outstanding - it never stalls - and the economy is superb for a 2 tonne vehicle (returning 50mpg+ consistently).

The Corsa - despite it having an internationally acclaimed diesel, winner of many awards was horrible. Prone to stall when pulling away, gutless unless revved above 2000 rpm. Intermittent hesitation and prone to strange events such as momentary uncontrolled acceleration whilst braking and on the overrun (shades of Toyota!). The hesitation/stalling problems became totally unacceptable when it stuttered and stalled pulling onto a roundabout and the car behind ploughed into me and did 2 grands worth of damage. Vauxhall never ever accepted there was a problem depite me complaining several times. On top of that, at slow to medium speeds it sounded like a sowing machine - quiet - sort of but annoying in a gutless way.

This was enough to make me steer clear of modern CR diesels. But now I need extra mpg desperately (still not discounted the 1.2Tsi)

WILL SOMEONE WITH 1st HAND EXPERIENCE OF THE 1.6CR DIESEL ANSWER.....

Q. What gears are comfortable to poodle along at 50mph (country road) and 40mph (urban road). Is 5th really only suitable for 60mph+ duty?

Edited 14 March, 201016 yr by xman

Very interesting thread. I need to get a diesel this year (doing too many miles) but have a dilemma.

WILL SOMEONE WITH 1st HAND EXPERIENCE OF THE 1.6CR DIESEL ANSWER.....

Q. What gears are comfortable to poodle along at 50mph (country road) and 40mph (urban road). Is 5th really only suitable for 60mph+ duty?

I did some experimenting last week at exactly the speeds you mention, and my conclusions were:

At 40 urban, it is best to be in 4th, but as long as there is not much traffic 5th is OK - it is doing 1000 revs at 40.

At 50 rural I found I was moving between 4th and 5th on corners and straights - it is doing 1500 revs at 50.

If you want to really do any significant manoeuvring then 3rd is best.

Whatever way you cut it, I have to do a lot more gear-changing than with my Volvo V70 - but I was getting between 20 and 30mpg with that, which is now unacceptable.

1000 rpm at 40 sounds dangerous to me!!

What I find worrying is the comments about low down power in the CR diesels. For me, that is the attraction when I am towing, particularly when we have the caravan on grass!

1000 rpm at 40 sounds dangerous to me!!

What I find worrying is the comments about low down power in the CR diesels. For me, that is the attraction when I am towing, particularly when we have the caravan on grass!

The reality is, the 1.6D is no different to any other turbo diesel in this respect - they all have a flat spot until the turbo kicks in. It still has all the good points most people look for in a diesel, but with an extra bit of smoothness and exceptional fuel economy.

Very interesting thread.

I'm really still getting used to a diesel - my 1.9TDi being the first diesel I've owned.

I love the low down torque. It will happily do 40 in 5th and will happily pick up again from almost idling revs in any gear and seems to really pull on from ~1500rpm (maybe that's the turbo kicking in?). Roundabouts are always taken in 3rd. I can't really hear the engine in the car, and certainly not given either the radio is on or kids making noise in the back.

In stark contrast, I had a Fabia 1.4TDi Estate as a loan car for 1 month before picking up the Octy, and that was noisy and totally flat below 2000rpm to the point you were constantly stirring the gearbox in search of forward motion. In comparison it was horrible and I wouldn't have parted with money to own one, ever. It was OK above 2000rpm but you just felt like you spent far too much time changing down. Roundabouts were definitely 2nd gear only.

I'm not quite sure why people seem against buying a 1.9TDi now because it's being phased out. I'm more minded to think grab one quick whilst you still can. I'm so pleased with mine - it drives like a dream and feels plenty quiet enough for me to the point I really don't understand all the "agricultural" references. It's like these people are revering to a different engine to that in the front of my car.

Anyway, I'm just another interested reader who's not driven the 1.6TDi.