Cost of DSG on Fabia (FL)

[marshm1d]

The DSG option on the VW Golf & Polo and on the Yeti & Octavia varies between £1100 & £1350. On the facelifted Fabia, it appears to be just under £700. However, the true cost is less than this since the DSG option includes ESP which on its own costs £350.

So the true cost of DSG is just under £350!!!

Have I missed something?

I wouldn't pay £1100 for this option but it's very tempting at £350. I would be less tempted if the manual box on the 1.2TSI was the 6-speed since we have that on our old Fabia vRS and it is a brilliant gearbox. According to some test reports, the 5 speed box is less precise.

[M12MKD]

difference between the SE man and SE DSG is £700 which for the DSG box is a bargin!!

[benwiddowson]

difference between the SE man and SE DSG is £700 which for the DSG box is a bargin!!

Whats the advantages of the DSG over a manual other than being an automatic? Is it slightly quicker at changing gear? Am i correct in thinking a DSG is more expensive to service as the fluid is more expensive?

[Mike Austin]

Whats the advantages of the DSG over a manual other than being an automatic? Is it slightly quicker at changing gear? Am i correct in thinking a DSG is more expensive to service as the fluid is more expensive?

I have no experience of DSG yet - but bearing in mind that it includes ESP and rear disks which would otherwise cost £350, it is only £350 net. (or £298 with the no VAT offer)

[skodayouth]

Whats the advantages of the DSG over a manual other than being an automatic? Is it slightly quicker at changing gear? Am i correct in thinking a DSG is more expensive to service as the fluid is more expensive?

Under optimal conditions DSG will easily change gear faster than any man could, it's faster than most supercar automated manuals. Theres little fluid in the 7 speed DSG so I dont think it will affect service pricing.

The Fabia 1.6 Tiptronics box was a complete bargain when you factor in standard ESP, Rear disk brakes and tire pressure monitoring, so nice to see the trend continues. The auto box intergrates with ESP to hold gears better in corners

[rich17865]

just a point to note, when i ordered my old fabia in 2007 i was tempted to add the dsg box for the very same reason, my dealer advised against it, in his words, 'it's gutless and really really embarrasingly slow'

[RapidRonnie]

just a point to note, when i ordered my old fabia in 2007 i was tempted to add the dsg box for the very same reason, my dealer advised against it, in his words, 'it's gutless and really really embarrasingly slow'

Then your dealer didn't know what he was talking about because DSG wasn't available on the Fabia in 2007!

[M12MKD]

just a point to note, when i ordered my old fabia in 2007 i was tempted to add the dsg box for the very same reason, my dealer advised against it, in his words, 'it's gutless and really really embarrasingly slow'

not a DSG but the tiptronics box only available with the 1.6 which was not that good on fuel and had high CO2 levels.

My aunt did look at the fabia auto but I said it was not that good on fuel and it was not the dsg. Personally from a DSG user its a gem of a box (ok mine in the 6 speed wet box) but my aunt and uncle wet for the 7speed in their Octavia and they love it. Does shift faster than a normal driver could!

"IF" I was going to change my fabia for the new fabia then is would be one fitted with a dsg........but I like my old girl!

[rich17865]

Then your dealer didn't know what he was talking about because DSG wasn't available on the Fabia in 2007!

non-manual, auto, tiptronic, DSG whatever your gearbox type is - the no clutch version either way

[RapidRonnie]

non-manual, auto, tiptronic, DSG whatever your gearbox type is - the no clutch version either way

Ok, point taken... but the DSG box and the engine it is linked too in the facelift Fabia is an enitrely different beast

[skodayouth]

Having a Fabia 1.6 Tiptronic and having had a Octavia DSG I can speak from experience on this, of course the DSG is undoubtedly better, quicker and more efficient. The 6 speed Tiptronic though isn't that bad, most autos feel slow and thirsty because they only actually have 3 ratios + Overdrive (4 speed). Because on the overdrive all torque is lost (Only really for cruising and economy) your average 3 speed auto is only using 3 ratios. This means they are all large gears (Most do nearly 50 in 1st gear) and the torque converter provides torque multiplication to help with this. This is where most of the performance and economy are lost, since alot of the engines work is just churning fluid.

Because the (Pre-FL) Fabia has a 6 speed automatic gearbox there are 5 usable ratios,so the torque converter locks midway in 3rd gear (Only when engine is warm, it slushes when cold) so that each gear is actually being direcly driven by the engine. This eliminates most issues with fuel economy and performance. This is why the Urban is greatly different to the manual but the extra urban not so much.

Apart from the extra auto box weight, the fuel economy and performance would be near identical when the torque converter is locked. 0-60 on the manual is 9.8 and 11.1 for the tiptronic, compared to alot of other 4 speed autos this seems to be a small increase. I can also hold my foot on the brake and build torque when stationary and get some quite good launches. I have timed mine to do 60 with just me in the car in 10 seconds. I see 40 mpg on my m1-m25-m4 commute daily. Sport mode works well, drive uses 4th gear too much and actually labors at 1,000 without a good bootful to get it back into 3rd, so I either use sport mode or tiptronic, tiptronic provides useful engine braking. Intergrates with ESP to hold gears during agressive cornering (Useful)

I had mine for over 30k and nearly 3 years so ive certainly had plenty of experience with it. My main beef is that this is the 6 speed tiptronic from the Octavia, and while it is one of the most compact 6 speed boxes (http://www.aisin-aw.co.jp/en/02products/drivetrain/at.html) the extra weight (45KG) calls for TDI front springs which mean a hard ride and I feel every bump on the standard 16" alloy on the 3. Also the box is "sealed for life", this is such bullcrap that all the big german marques are playing. ATF fluid heats up and breaks down over time, resulting in less lubrication and pressure and a dying box, it will never last forever. Good quality ATF is essential for any traditional auto, Hyundais e.t.c have a dipstick in the engine bay, much better

So definatley DSG is the way to go and I would buy another Fabia now it is avaliable, but rich17865's dealer is damn wrong, but then dealers have always been a bit like that

Sorry for the long post, in a productive mood

Edited 7 April, 2010 by skodayouth

[marshm1d]

To skodayouth

Thanks for such a detailed reply.

Details of the 7-speed DSG can be found here:

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/dsg

Last section from VW technology says...

"DSG dual-clutch 7-speed gearbox.

Our new 7-speed DSG dual-clutch gearbox is a world first. What makes it so innovative is its pair of dry clutches which have dispensed with the need for the oil bath of conventional ‘wet’ clutches. They have been designed to improve fuel efficiency and driving agility further.

The clutches' dry, organic-bonded friction linings need no cooling. The gearbox is also very compact and requires less power for the gear selection and clutch servo system.

Ideal for motorway driving. Adopting 7 speeds meant our engineers could lower 1st gear to improve acceleration from standstill and raise 7th gear to act as an overdrive function, ideal for motorway driving. This can save fuel, cut emissions, and means the car runs even more quietly.

Oil volume cut by 75 per cent. The volume of oil in the gearbox has been cut by 75 per cent. Oil circuits are split into two in an effort to protect purity. As with a conventional manual gearbox, one circuit is used for cooling and lubrication of the gear teeth, the second feeds oil to the gear actuators. Since the clutch does not need cooling the quantity of oil has reduced from 7 litres in the 6-speed DSG dual-clutch gearbox to just 1.7-litres in the 7-speed system. The result: improved efficiency rating for the gearbox and lower fuel consumption."

Note that oil is still present (it's a gearbox after all!) but the amount is reduced considerably - so hopefully a cheaper oil change.

Still not made up my mind to include DSG as an option. Not so keen on the dry clutch system being a "world first".

[skodayouth]

I think the 7 speed DSG also facilitates stop/start technology easier, though I dont think any VW stop start cars are DSG equipped yet