DSG failures

[scotchandskoda]

Hi all.

I'm not sure how you can compare the Yeti with a Freelander. The Yeti starts at just under £14,000 the Land Rover Freelander 2 starts at about £22,000. Similar cars, size wise but that's where the comparison stops. The Land rover brand thinks - maybe rightly - that is can ask it's customers for that kind of money, because it can and it still sells cars so they are getting something right. The badge is everything with the cheaper Land Rovers. If I could afford a £22,000 - £25,000 car what about an Audi Q5 - the rich man's Yeti, pretty much.

According to numerous consumer / customer reports Land Rover dealers are not the best, by any means - Skoda dealers have had a good reputation, generally. If you read the readers reports on some car mag' web sites you can see a massive variation in a customers complaints or otherwise about their new cars. Some people have an awful time with really expensive motors, and some of the best know makes of cars (Mercedes, Land Rover, Renault) have had a bad time over the last 10 years or so. Skoda has done a good job with a small number of dealers, and pretty reliable cars, a good combination.

I'm new to Skoda and will let you know if I have a disappointing time when I take my car in for a few tweaks. Time will tell. I looked at what owners said and it looked good for Skoda. There's a slight risk in buying a brand new model but it has only had good reviews so far, some amazing reviews - EVO and Top Gear. I think moving from a Yeti to Freelander is an expensive error. Even if the yeti is a new model the bits are from the VAG group parts bin and are pretty good (not perfect - who is) at most things.

I once had a Citroen CX, which according to the dreadful Which? Magazine (doom merchants with no idea about cars or anything else in my opinion) was about the worse car you could buy EVER in the world. I only had a few problems but was always waiting for a disaster. I had a good dealer, gone now, and that made a huge difference.

R

[PeteVRS]

The grass is never greener as they say... you pop into ANY forum for ANY car and you can read about problem after problem with it. Newbies reading these threads could be well put off the Yeti (human nature to be drawn to the "problem" threads) yet it is highly regarded by many here.

If you're buying new or nearly new isn't it as simple as buying the one you like the most from the test drives then having peace of mind the dealer is behind you for up to three years to fix anything?

I agree with the coments about FL2 vs Yeti and the starting prices being wildly different (£22k for the FL2 unless you want it in white). The FL2 is also a bit bigger! But I specced up a FL2 on the Land Rover website yesterday to nearly £25k then found the same on Drive The Deal with £3100 off taking it down to just over £21k (think a new basic model was under £20k too) - must be worth a look if it's within your budget?

I do think forums can wear down your faith in a brand over time. I'm put off a Yeti because of negative things posted here, and wary of an Octavia because of things I have read in that forum. Yet my actual real life experience with my Fabia has been very positive.

[fordfan]

Some years ago I was at a dealer presentation by a warranty company. They gave us an insight into how they calculate their premiums, one figure that I remember is that they gave Land Rover products a 100% premium loading, at the other end of the scale were Daihatsu.

[The Plumber]

I do think forums can wear down your faith in a brand over time. I'm put off a Yeti because of negative things posted here, and wary of an Octavia because of things I have read in that forum. Yet my actual real life experience with my Fabia has been very positive.

Hi Pete,

would not let the forum put you off the Monster, she's is really excellent and yes some including myself have had some reason or other to return to the dealer. The forum though is only a small snapshot of the bigger picture, for example mine is the only Yeti my dealer has sold and delivered that's had to return to the dealer for remedial work more than once and I believe they have only seen one other back in for a minor fix.

Regards,

TP

[jst_at_home]

The grass is never greener as they say... you pop into ANY forum for ANY car and you can read about problem after problem with it. Newbies reading these threads could be well put off the Yeti (human nature to be drawn to the "problem" threads) yet it is highly regarded by many here.

If you're buying new or nearly new isn't it as simple as buying the one you like the most from the test drives then having peace of mind the dealer is behind you for up to three years to fix anything?

I agree with the coments about FL2 vs Yeti and the starting prices being wildly different (£22k for the FL2 unless you want it in white). The FL2 is also a bit bigger! But I specced up a FL2 on the Land Rover website yesterday to nearly £25k then found the same on Drive The Deal with £3100 off taking it down to just over £21k (think a new basic model was under £20k too) - must be worth a look if it's within your budget?

I do think forums can wear down your faith in a brand over time. I'm put off a Yeti because of negative things posted here, and wary of an Octavia because of things I have read in that forum. Yet my actual real life experience with my Fabia has been very positive.

I'll just make a couple of points if I may.

Before we bought our Yeti, both Yeti and FL2 were on our list. We half fancied one of the FL2 Special Black/White editions that were about at the back end of last year. Unfortunately, despite much advertising, my local dealer gave no hope of being able to get one. Thus we were considering a new, low end model but unfortunately pricing with a few extras took it out of the equation.

As it turns out, our Yeti was exactly the right choice.

Regarding forums, the thing I've noted over the years is that they do give a platform for people with a beef about their vehicle and unfortunatly this can lead to a disproportionate amount of negative comment as, again in my view, it tends to attract other people who may have a concern or a problem.

John

[octy888]

I'll just make a couple of points if I may.

Before we bought our Yeti, both Yeti and FL2 were on our list. We half fancied one of the FL2 Special Black/White editions that were about at the back end of last year. Unfortunately, despite much advertising, my local dealer gave no hope of being able to get one. Thus we were considering a new, low end model but unfortunately pricing with a few extras took it out of the equation.

As it turns out, our Yeti was exactly the right choice.

Regarding forums, the thing I've noted over the years is that they do give a platform for people with a beef about their vehicle and unfortunatly this can lead to a disproportionate amount of negative comment as, again in my view, it tends to attract other people who may have a concern or a problem.

John

Both excellent posts and points very well made, couldn't agree more

[Y4YETI]

We may have perhaps stayed with our Yeti but the two key issues for us were the need for frequent gear changes and the fact that an automatic (whether DSG or otherwise) was not available for the more powerful diesel models.

I think we will all agree that the Superb was and still is a landmark car in the Skoda range for comfort and quietness.

Before making a decision on the Freelander we looked up the VCA fuel data for the comparative CR TDI engines with auto transmission, Although not all these models are yet available in the UK for 12,000 miles the costs are £1,331 for the Yeti, £1398 for the new Superb and £1,722 for the Freelander.

The moving noise levels in dBA show the Yeti to be the noisiest at 73, the Superb next at 72 but the quietest by far was the Freelander at only 68.

The human perception of, for example, sound or light, is, roughly speaking, such that a doubling of actual intensity causes perceived intensity to always increase by the same amount, irrespective of the original level. The decibel's logarithmic scale, in which a doubling of power or intensity always causes an increase of approximately 3 dB, corresponds to this perception.

These are quite significant differences.

[Agerbundsen]

Y4Yeti, this may be a pointless discussion, as you have made a choice based on your preferences. However, I wonder why you had a "need for frequent gear changes" in the 170 hp Yeti? I certainly do not experience that, but maybe my driving style and the roads here are different.

[Gilesmengland]

Some years ago I was at a dealer presentation by a warranty company. They gave us an insight into how they calculate their premiums, one figure that I remember is that they gave Land Rover products a 100% premium loading, at the other end of the scale were Daihatsu.

Was this pre-Ford takeover ?

I know one of the first things Ford did was replace electrical connectors with military-spec. Cost £10 per vehicle, but warranty claims dropped significantly (to just "terrible", rather than "atrocious" !!).

[fordfan]

Was this pre-Ford takeover ?

This was around 5 or 6 years ago.

[Trevorminor]

The moving noise levels in dBA show the Yeti to be the noisiest at 73, the Superb next at 72 but the quietest by far was the Freelander at only 68.

It's even quieter sat on the hardshoulder :'(

[Lady Penelope]

It's even quieter sat on the hardshoulder :'(

oh dear :'( What happened?

[octy888]

It's even quieter sat on the hardshoulder :'(

But you really must revise your opinion of the latest land Rovers, they don't build them like they used to as the saying goes......thank goodness in LR's case, they are actually quite good now!

[Llanigraham]

The problem is some people are unable to realise that companies do improve (like LR) but are willing to believe all the negative comments and not actually find out the truth.

[aerofurb]

Two days ago my father traded in his 11 month old Freelander 2 and returned to the Mercedes marque. He'd always fancied a LR of some sort (for many many years he'd had BMWs and Mercs) but was disappointed in the FL2. Not least when the fuel gauge unknowingly stayed put and it ran dry of diesel (first time he'd taken the tank level down that low) - fortunately in town not in Lane 3 of the M1.... The dealer said 'oh, yeah, we've had a few do that'...

It was a bargain to buy though - the LR dealer was so desparate to sell one that when the Merc dealer apologised for the poor trade-in price my Dad had to try hard to keep a straight face - it was actually a price that was more than he had paid for it....

Each to their own. Personally I would think most of the negative threads about the YETI here have probably been started by Y4YETI on a one person crusade. I think complaining about the snow chains tyre fit to the extent he did and the fact that you have to change gear too often that you can't use the cruise control in a 30mph limit going up and down hills aren't exactly indicative of a poor quality product.

The YETI is a new vehicle. It's a machine, a new machine (okay, we know it isn't a machine really... ) and sometimes things fail. I have some headlights with a minor problem that will be fixed under warranty that cause me no grief whatsoever. That's it.

The YETI is a phenomemal mode of transport, end of story.

[shrub]

Two days ago my father traded in his 11 month old Freelander 2 and returned to the Mercedes marque. He'd always fancied a LR of some sort (for many many years he'd had BMWs and Mercs) but was disappointed in the FL2. Not least when the fuel gauge unknowingly stayed put and it ran dry of diesel (first time he'd taken the tank level down that low) - fortunately in town not in Lane 3 of the M1.... The dealer said 'oh, yeah, we've had a few do that'...

It was a bargain to buy though - the LR dealer was so desparate to sell one that when the Merc dealer apologised for the poor trade-in price my Dad had to try hard to keep a straight face - it was actually a price that was more than he had paid for it....

Each to their own. Personally I would think most of the negative threads about the YETI here have probably been started by Y4YETI on a one person crusade. I think complaining about the snow chains tyre fit to the extent he did and the fact that you have to change gear too often that you can't use the cruise control in a 30mph limit going up and down hills aren't exactly indicative of a poor quality product.

The YETI is a new vehicle. It's a machine, a new machine (okay, we know it isn't a machine really... ) and sometimes things fail. I have some headlights with a minor problem that will be fixed under warranty that cause me no grief whatsoever. That's it.

The YETI is a phenomemal mode of transport, end of story.

Amen, mine is a cracking car for less than £14k otr.

[Y4YETI]

The problem is some people are unable to realise that companies do improve (like LR) but are willing to believe all the negative comments and not actually find out the truth.

Other than financial security I am not sure what added value in terms of quality control of Land Rover has been addded by its acquisition by Tata.

Maybe the Ford experience has given an influx of the stringent quality control standards similar to the standards we have come to expect for Japanese vehicle manufacturers

As Graham states companies change, It has been suggested in other threads that the quality of Skoda may be dleiberately being downgraded because of the effect on Volkswagen sales in the same group.

Objectively things like the linings of the roof arches were OK but badly fitted and definitely not to the standard of Skoda in the past.

Is the recession over - Freelanders were selling like hotcakes in our local main dealer?

Bye bye tomorrow little pet .........

[The Plumber]

Hope she finds a more appreciating home

Anyway all the best and enjoy the LR, never owned one myself but spent many hours at the wheel of Defenders and Disco's in the mob. Only failure I had was the gear stick falling off (sheared at the base) but that was a worn out lightweight.

Oh did convert a Defender 90 into Santa's sleigh one Christmas in Germany. Had to get the German Police to OK taking it onto the highway down to the married quarters for the children to see Mr. Christmas

TP

[aerofurb]

Oh did convert a Defender 90 into Santa's sleigh one Christmas in Germany. Had to get the German Police to OK taking it onto the highway down to the married quarters for the children to see Mr. Christmas

TP

Why would they pull you over, TP? No snow chains fitted to the sleigh....?!

Edited 24 April, 2010 by aerofurb

[The Plumber]

Why would they pull you over, TP? No snow chains fitted to the sleigh....?!

No snow unfortunately, so couldn't try out chains

Had to check with the police due to the mods made to the LR; removed the anti role bar and screen (canvas top) to fit a wooden frame over the body to support a cut-out panel on each side depicting rain deer and a sleigh; guess who had to drive it. Oh and on top of that one of the lads had fitted a car radio to some large-ish speakers so we could play Xmas carol's while on the move

TP

[aerofurb]

Somewhere I have a picture of me towing a mighty EE Canberra with our tug which we'd dressed up as a steam engine, complete with funnel and steam for towing the train at the station athletics day....

[To keep it on topic, this tug didn't have DSG and my YETI probably has more torque for towing... ]

[Y4YETI]

She does look pretty sitting on the drive on her final day with the rain gently caressing her shiny sides and forming in globules on her teflon protected roof.

We can all form attachments and loyalty to whatever vehicle we purchase whether it be a Bond three wheeler (pancake landing when the front wheel assembly collapsed in front of Waterloo statton) or the older Reliant Scimitar where you had to drive by the temperature guage until extra cooling units fitted!

With so many manufacturers bringing out cheap replicas of SUV designs as a fashion statement it is so unfortunate that the particular issue for us moved the vehicle into a similar category. Maybe a little unwise of Skoda to design a 4WD with so little wheel arch clearances for top of the range models.

VERY OFF TOPIC!!

In times of stress one can often make the wrong decisions but it is important to make decisions

With a final examination for coaching table tennis coming up on Saturday it was good to clear our decision - we really wanted a reasonably powerful 4WD vehicle with auto transmission.

Having obtained a Sport England grant for funding that included training of three new coaches I was seriously under pressure for the final examinations on Saturday. On misinformation that the course was easy I had encouraged two other members to join me for the course. Even fearing failure myself I had to encourage and support the other two (who were certain I would pass!) Can you imagine the champagne flowing last night when all three of us passed!!

So the mind is becoming clearer this morning - so sorry for upsetting anyone in a possibly misguided campaign for what I thought was defending consumer interests!!

Now to the funding of the extra cost of the Freelander (and my tip of the day)

Normally it is not wise to borrow money to purchase shares but we had the option to buy Lloyds shares at 37p and were convinced these had excellent prospects of improvement. We borrowed substantial funds at zero rate interest (3% arrangement fee) to do so. To give plenty of time for funds to clear we sold just over a week ago at 65p when the price was quite static but aware there could be a surge. Damn the surge came after we sold and the price is now 68p. You bet if we had left transfers to the last moment the price would have gone down.

Prudential are likely to have trouble raising funds for their massive rights issue and I suspect that many shareholders will not be able to raise money to purchase their discounted share allocation. There might be opportunities to buy at very low prices in relation to the value and potential of the expanded Prudential organisation. I will certainly be using other people's money by having more free available cash to make greater gains if the Pru ex share price after the rights issue seems a bargain. The other peoples money is of course the interest and repayments I am paying on the Freelander hire purchase agreement

Any thoughts for the day from Skoda investors?

[Lady Penelope]

TP and Aero...

come on boys dig out those photos You can't tease us like that !!!

[Agerbundsen]

She does look pretty sitting on the drive on her final day with the rain gently caressing her shiny sides and forming in globules on her teflon protected roof.

We can all form attachments and loyalty to whatever vehicle we purchase whether it be a Bond three wheeler (pancake landing when the front wheel assembly collapsed in front of Waterloo statton) or the older Reliant Scimitar where you had to drive by the temperature guage until extra cooling units fitted!

With so many manufacturers bringing out cheap replicas of SUV designs as a fashion statement it is so unfortunate that the particular issue for us moved the vehicle into a similar category. Maybe a little unwise of Skoda to design a 4WD with so little wheel arch clearances for top of the range models.

VERY OFF TOPIC!!

In times of stress one can often make the wrong decisions but it is important to make decisions

With a final examination for coaching table tennis coming up on Saturday it was good to clear our decision - we really wanted a reasonably powerful 4WD vehicle with auto transmission.

Having obtained a Sport England grant for funding that included training of three new coaches I was seriously under pressure for the final examinations on Saturday. On misinformation that the course was easy I had encouraged two other members to join me for the course. Even fearing failure myself I had to encourage and support the other two (who were certain I would pass!) Can you imagine the champagne flowing last night when all three of us passed!!

So the mind is becoming clearer this morning - so sorry for upsetting anyone in a possibly misguided campaign for what I thought was defending consumer interests!!

Now to the funding of the extra cost of the Freelander (and my tip of the day)

Normally it is not wise to borrow money to purchase shares but we had the option to buy Lloyds shares at 37p and were convinced these had excellent prospects of improvement. We borrowed substantial funds at zero rate interest (3% arrangement fee) to do so. To give plenty of time for funds to clear we sold just over a week ago at 65p when the price was quite static but aware there could be a surge. Damn the surge came after we sold and the price is now 68p. You bet if we had left transfers to the last moment the price would have gone down.

Prudential are likely to have trouble raising funds for their massive rights issue and I suspect that many shareholders will not be able to raise money to purchase their discounted share allocation. There might be opportunities to buy at very low prices in relation to the value and potential of the expanded Prudential organisation. I will certainly be using other people's money by having more free available cash to make greater gains if the Pru ex share price after the rights issue seems a bargain. The other peoples money is of course the interest and repayments I am paying on the Freelander hire purchase agreement

Any thoughts for the day from Skoda investors?

You bring up three subjects, I will give you my thoughts on all three:

1. I think you have misunderstood the Yeti - it is not a 4WD off-roader, but a superb road vehicle with the addition of 4WD. It is an extemely well balanced softroader, not some cheap knock-off. Look through the threads discussing the 4WD aspects and you might get enlightened.

2. You are forgiven in your under stress situation - and you stayed on your subject, and did not resort to personality stuff.

3. Congratulatuions on your lucky investments. However, in intimating an investment recommendation, you are in my opinion stepping over the line. Geared investments are OK for those who understand them and can afford to lose the whole kit and caboodle. This is certainly not the place for discussing those. Uninitiated people may be tempted, and I don't think you would be the seed for that.

[Matt Bodycombe]

DSG failures and lighting issues? What problems did you have with the car specifically? Good luck with the Freelander BTW but I too hae heard that they are not the most reliable things on the road. As to DSG, I think I will avoid one at all costs from what I have read and prefer a manual anyway> One reason I will not be buying a new Fabia VRS is the lack of a manual.