Also what happens those times when you really need to press the clutch in such as in the last seconds of an emergency stop etc.

Again from a smart perspective rather than DSG, it disengages the clutch automatically under this situation. Makes stalling it very challenging.

Rob.

OK' date=' OK, I've admitted I'm wrong! But the tip-tronic style semi-auto is COMPLETELY different to DSG (see my reply to Will's last post)

In the words of Michael Palin:

'Help! Help! I'm being repressed!'

(Just kidding, I like a bit of a barney from time to time! )[/quote']

The Merc A140 is not automatic in any way, you have to select ger yourself with the lever, so it sounds just like how you describe DSG. I hated it. I like to be in full control of the car.

On downchange, in sport mode (without touching the paddles) it changes pretty early and provides good stable engine braking coming into the hairpin at anglesey, without over revving and changing down is as quick as up, no jolts or anything to unbalance the car.

Oh, and the software gives a nice blip on downchanges to make it even smoother... was surprisingly in tune with what I was doing...

But the tip-tronic style semi-auto is COMPLETELY different to DSG (see my reply to Will's last post)

Hmm...well, the smart system is essentially an automatic clutch rather than an automatic gearbox, so it does have certain similarities to DSG...

And does DSG actually only allow sequential shifts?

Rob.

Again from a smart perspective rather than DSG' date=' it disengages the clutch automatically under this situation. Makes stalling it very challenging.

Rob.[/quote']

My dad stalled his auto Mondeo once. It did have 20 bags of cement in the boot, though!

And with that, 'good night!' I'm finishing work for the holidays now, and won't be back now until the 4th! So long, and Merry Christmas / Happy New Year to you all.

(OK, so I might log in once or twice from home if I get the chance! )

My dad stalled his auto Mondeo once.

That would use a torque convertor though...which is a bit easier to stall...

Rob.

I found tiptronic auto pretty good on track... and can only assume dsg would be bettter due to no loss of monentum.... which is the real advantage... hence the better acceration over manual/auto.

Semi automatic then. My friends ailing Merc A140 has this. I hated it when I took the car for a drive. Also what happens those times when you really need to press the clutch in such as in the last seconds of an emergency stop etc. Sounds like an overly complex bad idea to me.

I know all about MB A-Class and ACS 47k miles = new clutch and flywheel (dual mass flywheel) = much expence. I did enjoy driving the clutchless manual car but DSG cannot be compared with the simple implemetation in the A-Class.

Hmm...well' date=' the smart system is essentially an automatic clutch rather than an automatic gearbox, so it does have certain similarities to DSG...

And does DSG actually only allow sequential shifts?

Rob.[/quote']

I might be able to shed some light here, having driven both the Smart and the Octy II DSG. There are some similarities - in that both give you the option either to change gear yourself sequentially, or let the car take care of it for you. Both cars will also overrule you if you try anything silly - so if you come to a standstill in sixth without changing down it will automatically select first for you ready to pull away again.

The Octy will also handle the block changing situation pretty well, so if you come screaming up to a roundabout in top, slow right down to 20mph or so and then press the accelerator, you're straight off in whatever gear it decides would be most appropriate (didn't try this in manual mode on the test drive, but assume it would overrule you again rather than let you struggle).

Where the Octavia has it all over the Smart is the way it changes gear. As mentioned above, the odd numbered gears are all attached to one clutch, and the even numbered gears to another. It can therefore pre-select the next gear in either direction based on what it thinks you're going to do. So let's say you're accelerating in 3rd. It's got 4th preselected on the other clutch. At gearchange time it disengages the odd-numbered clutch (3rd) and engages the even numbered-clutch (4th) simultaneously. This makes for a very fast, very smooth gearchange with no break in the power (better than a manual and much, much better than the Smart).

So it is not an automatic (even though the gearlever is identical to the Octy II auto, there's no clutch and you can drive it very happily in automatic mode) because there is a manual gearbox underneath. I think it's probably a sort of automated pre-selector gearbox!!

All I can say is, on the plus side, it's amazing to drive and I defy even William not to like it . It has all the benefits of an auto (no clutch, you can be really lazy) with none of the downsides (slower/increased consumption). BUT (and it's a big but) it's a mega-complex piece of kit and you're stuffed if it goes wrong and decides not to play. That's my worry. However, I think I'm going to take the risk and not change for a manual. Wish me luck........

Of the autos I have driven, this would be my order of ability...

Smart "cosycoupe"

Nissan QX

Ford Scorpio

Toyota Previa

BMW 330ci

BMW 330d

996 C2 tip

Audi TT DSG

For driving hard tho, none can touch a prodrive quickshift equipped classic impreza turbo (an RB5 for anyone that cares)... really was the nicest manual I have ever driven.

But the Octy wont have the paddles :(

Does it have a sequential shift though? And is it "down" forward or "up" forward?

are you sure?

Does it have a sequential shift though? And is it "down" forward or "up" forward?

Yes - you can leave it in 'D' - normal auto. If you push the lever to one side from 'D' you're then in sequential mode - forward to go up a gear, back to come down. No paddles though :( . There's also an 'S' Sport mode - basically hangs on to gears longer and won't change gear on corners. One nice feature is that even in automatic mode there's a small number to tell you which gear you're in.

so no paddles?

are they an option? which vw products do come with them? can a paddle equipped wheel be retrofitted? assume as the paddles are just microswitches it must just plug into the loom?

equally can the tip shipt be wired backwards to give the classic "TOCA" back for up forwards for down... which is much more logical when you think about the g-forces involved.....

For driving hard tho, none can touch a prodrive quickshift equipped classic impreza turbo (an RB5 for anyone that cares)... really was the nicest manual I have ever driven.

Can't argue with that Never missed a shift up-or-down with that

Chris

equally can the tip shipt be wired backwards to give the classic "TOCA" back for up forwards for down... which is much more logical when you think about the g-forces involved.....

That's what I was thinking, that's bizarre logic to have 'forward' for 'up'! BMW used to use this logic on their Tiptronic system, but have thankfully changed it round in later models. Shame about the paddles too :(

Steve

Sure' date=' accelerating in a straight line, I wouldn't disagree, but if I'm coming towards a 30mph bend at 60mph in 5th, I'd brake and change from 5th to 4th, and then straight to 2nd as I was slowing down. It's what police drivers and advanced motorists are taught to do (you do need a bit of practice though). Having to go 5th-4th-3rd-2nd engaging the gear each time just can't be as fast. Likewise, on a normal road, I might accelerate from 30 up to 60, and make the block change in the opposite direction...QUOTE']

From what I remember from my police driving course all down shifts are from the gear you are in (in your example 5th) directly to the gear you require (in your example 2nd) after you have braked to the correct speed for the corner (you really only should brake and change gear at the same time on approach to very slow speed corners).

Whlist doing the change you keep your foot on the accelerator to allow the revs to rise up to the engine speed to match the vehicle speed, engaging the gear at that point. You then follow the limit point maintaining a constant speed through the corner until the limit point begins to move away from you and you accelerate to keep pace with it.

It does certainly take practice and it really feels strange at first as you entry speed to a corner is often slower than what you are used to. However, exit speeds are much faster and overall cornering speeds higher (slow in fast out thing).

It is definately an art form (I am admittedly decidely average at it but I try hard) and DSG by the sounds of it will make life a shed load easier!!! Unlikely to be able to convince Mrs Spangelaregreat to change the manual Octy so will have to perservere.

Regards.

Here is an explanation of how a DSG gearbox works.

Good link Denis...

now find out if i can hot wire it to "tip" correctly? or maybe Big K will know?

[it is possible to downshift from 6th into 2nd in 0.9 second, the gearbox shifting first to 5th then to 2nd. Of course the shift from an even ratio to an odd or conversely is done without delay after pre-selection.................................... The Golf R32 can reach 247 km/h and the Golf optionally equipped with the Direct Shift Gearbox - DSG sprints from 0 to 100 km/h in 6.4 seconds, faster than the manual version which needs 6.6 seconds.

there ya go william and other doubters, what it does and how it performs

Good link Denis...

now find out if i can hot wire it to "tip" correctly? or maybe Big K will know?

Open up centre console, will be one microswitch for + and one for -, so we just swap them round?

Could never get on with the 330ci for being "the wrong way round".

Good to hear sport mode is in there, it works well in the TT.

The Golf R32 can reach 247 km/h and the Golf optionally equipped with the Direct Shift Gearbox - DSG sprints from 0 to 100 km/h in 6.4 seconds, faster than the manual version which needs 6.6 seconds.

Is the R32 that slow? I never realised.....