4x4 owners......Any feedback on how the Superb Estate 170 4x4 handles in snow and ice would be appreciated

Edited 13 September, 201015 yr by philpix

Surely that's going to depends on what tyres you have on more than anything else

Surely that's going to depends on what tyres you have on more than anything else

More interested in the 4x4 Haldex system with standard factory fit tyres.

More interested in the 4x4 Haldex system with standard factory fit tyres.

Decent amount of snow, 18" low profile tyres... pretty crap would be my guess.

If it's a DSG model, don't bother, leave it at home and walk.

4x4 not available in DSG

I'm changing to winter tyres for my 4x4 this year - i had All-Terrain tyres on my last car (Sorento) and it went exactly where i pointed it during the Snow.. i doubt the superb will be as good, but, i'm forever hopeful!

Al.

Winter tyres make a huge difference. Here you must fit them once temperatures drop below 7 deg C.

On my current car (Saab) with front wheel drive, I can get through most conditions. The Superb (order approaching!) is also heavy on the front, so should be OK.

4WD will help for hill start etc., and if the snow gets deep. But it does nothing to improve braking...

My Saab is an auto, no problem in the snow; just don't use the sports setting! Manual override is useful so you can start off in second (used to be a W button but not needed with manual selection). I assume the DSG also allows this?

My guess is with haldex 4WD and ESP it should make for a less dramatic snow driving experience.

You can get DSG and 4x4 in the V6 version.

I would have thought it will be okay. We had the worst snow for a long time earlier this year and the Yeti 4x4 was absolutely fine with the normal road tyres.

I have a 1.8tsi 4x4..but I also fit winter tyres every year for multiple snowboarding trip per year. A FWD with winter tyres will get further than 4x4 with summer tyres when on snow and ice.

4x4 will provide extra traction in icy conditions but it won't help you stop and/or go around corners. Winter tyres provide increased grip fopr acceleration, braking and cornering.

I have a 1.8tsi 4x4..but I also fit winter tyres every year for multiple snowboarding trip per year. A FWD with winter tyres will get further than 4x4 with summer tyres when on snow and ice.

+1 on that

I gave my Octy 4x4 a go in the snow of summers - fair enough, better than a FWD car on summers ...

Haldex can only work if the tyres can grip, once that basic grip is gone, haldex can do nothing.

4x4 will provide extra traction in icy conditions ...

Snow tyres are for Snow, Ice, and Mud + and the mixture of all 3 that you get in spring, which is the worse surface to drive on (muddy slushy snow sitting on a layer of ice)

The ice factor is really the critical one in the UK - we get black ice for longer than we get snow ...

Get winter tyres - - then you'll be laughing

4x4 owners......Any feedback on how the Superb Estate 170 4x4 handles in snow and ice would be appreciated

I'll add my thoughts to this thread as this topic has been part of my decision making process when ordering my next car (new Superb estate 4x4)

I had a Superb Elegance 170CR hatch a couple of years back. Excellent car overall but the one thing it couldn't deal with was snow. Yes, I know 18'' wheels on ultra low profiles are about the worst option for winter conditions (apart from the woman I discussed this with recently who had a BMW which she reckoned was useless on snow. I pointed out the obvious, i.e. its front engined RWD and yes, you've guessed it, she didn't know)

Anyway, 12 months or so ago I changed the Superb for a Volvo XC70 (D5 haldex coupled 4x4) which, like the Superb I've now got on order, runs in FWD under normal operating conditions, the haldex system detects slip via the ABS sensors and will then apportion drive to the rear wheels as well as the front as the computer deems fit. This part of the Volvo works extremely well. Where I live we had up to 10'' of snow last winter and the Volvo never came close to getting stuck (including driving out of snowdrifts when parked overnight). The Volvo is fitted on Pirelli Scorpion tyres, 60 profile, which are a compromise spec all weather tyre capable of dealing with moderate winter conditions. I've found them pretty good in all weathers.

Sadly the same can't be said for the Volvo, 4 breakdowns now and dragged back to the dealer each time over a period of 8 weeks means its now going as soon as my Superb arrives.

Based on the above, and knowing the 170CR 4x4 uses a similar haldex system to the Volvo, I think the only real difference between the two on snow will come down to the tyres. The superb 4x4 estate wears the same spec tyres as the hatch I had (18'' alloys on 45 profile rubber - probably continentals) which are not designed to deal with snow.

I am expecting better performance on snow from the 4x4 Superb than I had with the FWD Superb (by virtue of the haldex system) but inferior performance on snow compared to the Volvo (due to the tyres on the volvo)

Overall though, a trade off I'm prepared to accept to go back to (hopefully) another very well engineered and more reliable car for a lot less money than another Volvo XC70.

Mark.

Nit picking I know but they are actually 225/40/18's

The superb 4x4 estate wears the same spec tyres as the hatch I had (18'' alloys on 45 profile rubber - probably continentals)

My MKI Superb (2WD) fitted with all season 205/55/16's got through last years snow without issue (slow going but more than capable)

I have since bought a set of Nokian WR G2's in 205/55/16 to go on the Superb Combi - if it ever arrives .

I've notice a few people, including 2slo here, stating that the basic size & profile of your alloys will affect the winter performance, even with winter tyres on.

This is simply not the case. Its the rubber on the alloy that makes the difference.

Infact, for off-road snow driving you want the biggest fattest snow tyres you can get your hands on - so you don't sink through the snow and bog down - same principle as mud driving

My winter tyres are 225/40R18 - that's low profile 18" - with Vredestien Wintrac Xtreme - insanely good.

I've used a few winter tyres before, including metal and poly studded ones in Norway, and the Wintrac Xtreme are the best yet.

The only real advantage of narrower, "high" profile tyres is the money you save, and the greater tyre choice you have.

Vredestein for example, do not seem to their SnowTrac 1, 2, or 3 tyres in 225/40R18, so the only tyres available was the Wintrac Xtreme, which are not cheap.

Edited 14 September, 201015 yr by snow_muncher

Infact, for off-road snow driving you want the biggest fattest snow tyres you can get your hands on - so you don't sink through the snow and bog down - same principle as mud driving...

...The only real advantage of narrower, "high" profile tyres is the money you save, and the greater tyre choice you have.

So ALL of the rally teams and tyre manufacturers must have got it all wrong then??

Ooooh this is an interesting topic. I came to the conclusion that big tyres were best for sitting on top of snow and trying not to rip it up to the point where you sink through it and bog down. Those daft cars that went down to the South Pole on Top Gear had ginourmous tyres. But I guess if the snow is slushy and has no cohesiveness, then you would probably want narrow tyres to cut through and down, to the hard surface underneath.

So I have assumed that lots of sipes are great for snow (hence big and wide tyres presenting a flatter, bigger surface area like a snow shoe are best) and that narrow tyres are best for stuff like standing water and slush (helping push the loose surface out of the way) were you need to get to the hard under-surface for traction.

I reckoned rally cars need the later as they want to dig into the firm ground underneath the mud. Interestingly enough a lot of winter tyres produce more grip with something like 4-5-% slippage. Go figure

Most rally team would have a nice selection of winter tyres, and choose the best for the situation - e.g. do you want to ride over the snow/mud/ice or try to cut through/into it.

I was trying to answer the original question from the perspective of the the average driver, who is probably going to be spending more time on tarmac than snow/ice, and will probaby (hopefully !) drive in cautious matter on the white-stuff.

My point being really, you don't HAVE to get another set of alloys/steels to run winter tyres.

I spent the last 10 years worth of winters in the Swiss Alps, and have paid close attention to how the locals cope with snow/ice and the tyres used. The vast majority of people use the same size winter tyres as summer.

I've notice a few people, including 2slo here, stating that the basic size & profile of your alloys will affect the winter performance, even with winter tyres on.

No, I was describing what is fitted and what I'm saying is the type of tyre fitted as standard by SUK is unsuitable for snow. High performance ultra low profile road tyres are not designed for snow and thats what SUK fits. Perhaps mentioning 18'' wheels was a bit misleading but I wasn't suggesting that the size of the alloy has any bearing on the performance in snow.

I guess thats the entertainment aspect of most forums. If you aren't cristal clear theres always someone ready to shoot you down.

Apologies if it seemed I was trying to shoot you :S

Just trying to address the "myth rule" that seems to have been spread on this subject, on numerous forums, that winter tyres "must be thin, must be on steelies and must have big side-walls".

The UK is pretty rubbish at dealing with adverse weather, and I suspect there has been a bit of an over-reaction to last years' little spot of snow.

I noticed someone (I think from Scotland, on PistonHeads) talking about how they'd got full-on metal spiked winter tyres - a complete over-reaction, such tyres are not meant to be driven on tarmac, and are illegal in many european countries, due to the damage they do to the tarmac (not to mention ripping the spikes out)

Hey no worries, I enjoy a bit of intelligent discussion.

I also enjoy driving on the slippery stuff if theres plenty of run off and you've room to slide around in a safe manner (obviously not on the public highway).

I bet those ice driving courses on the frozen Scandinavian lakes are brilliant fun.

On the other hand I hope we don't have to rely too much on the cars winter traction the way we did in the UK last winter. Two hours each way to work wasn't much fun.

Mark.

the only problem I had in the snow last year on summer tyres (Hankook Evo12's) was waiting for the big 4x4's to get out of the way

I think a better option in this country is to stick with summer or all season tyres and invest in some of the snow socks. Chains are a bit too much for some people to be able to man-handle (person-handle for the PC amongst you :p) but the snow socks are very good

The modern wider winter tyres are as grippy as the narrower ones. BUT only if new. If they wear, and they wear faster, they will loose grip more rapidly as the narrower ones.

On my VRS I had std size (225/40 18) summer tyres and 16" winters. I have chosen the 16" also because of the ability to use chains. The 16" tyres never felt too skinny for the car, not even doing 240km/h on the autobahn.

4WD and all the electronic gimmics you can get, will never give you the grip and driveability of winter tyres under winterly conditions.

I will not even try my quattro with the 255 35 19 summers in winter, already have a set of 245 40 18 winters lying in the garage.

Edited 14 September, 201015 yr by magic62

The modern wider winter tyres are as grippy as the narrower ones. BUT only if new. If they wear, and they wear faster, they will loose grip more rapidly as the narrower ones.

? - that does make sense - with a wider tyre you decrease the pressure/area, therefore should get better tyre wear.

The narrower the tyre, the smaller area on the ground, thus the heavier the wear surely ?

Not exactly what I meant

Wider low profile tyres mostly have less profile when new and they wear quicker than the narrower ones.

What I meant is, that the narrower tyres will last longer and loose less grip if they wear in comparison to the wider ones. (with less profile they will still have a decent amount of grip, were the wider tyre will get useless)

Are we talking about depth of tread here ?