I have owned a 2004 MK 1 Octavia 1.9 TDi SE 130bhp from new and would like to extract more power out of the engine, whilst addressing the issue of handling as my car has enough problems dealing with the current 130bhp.

I'm so pleased with the Octavia that I wanted to replace it with..................................another Octavia!!! This time the VRS model, but I'm loathed to spend £18K on a new car when my old one works so well. I've viewed the Celtic Tuning website regarding re-mapping the ECU to develop a modified 187bhp. What I'd like to ask fellow community members on here is:

1. Has anyone else modified their standard 1.9PD TDi 130bhp diesel and what was required for tuning?

2. Apart from a simple engine re-map, what suspension or other mods do I need to improve the handling?

Thanks,

Paul

P.S. Maybe my user name should have been tootighttobuyavrs

Edited 3 October, 201015 yr by cantaffordavrs

I used to have a pd130 elegance.

I had the following mods

Powerflex Anti rollbar bushaes/wishbone bushes

Superpro dogbone mounT

KW sport springs and dampers (30-40mm lower)

312mm brake upgrade with oem discs and pads

Sachs organic clutch

Jabba sport generic remap

Miltek de-cat and resonated descreet exhaust system for a bora (no cutting of the rear bumper)

Bora gti sport seats

The last RR it went on (awesome gti) saw it running 343ftlb and 184bhp

The next owner I believe has fitted a rear anti roll bar but kept everything else the same. Its now over 140,000 miles and still going well (as far as I know)

All mods were well worth it.

Edited 3 October, 201015 yr by matt@theforce

Remapped TDI's are notorious for killing tired clutches so I would start there. Brakes next then suspension.

I used to have a pd130 elegance.

I had the following mods

Powerflex Anti rollbar bushaes/wishbone bushes

Superpro dogbone mounT

KW sport springs and dampers (30-40mm lower)

312mm brake upgrade with oem discs and pads

Sachs organic clutch

Jabba sport generic remap

Miltek de-cat and resonated descreet exhaust system for a bora (no cutting of the rear bumper)

Bora gti sport seats

The last RR it went on (awesome gti) saw it running 343ftlb and 184bhp

The next owner I believe has fitted a rear anti roll bar but kept everything else the same. Its now over 140,000 miles and still going well (as far as I know)

All mods were well worth it.

Hi Matt,

thanks for replying to my posting.

It was interesting reading about all the mods you made. For me, the engine re-map, brake mods and suspension mods would be absolute minimum changes. The car rolls a bit through bends/roundabouts as it is, let alone having an extra 50bhp or so available. Would you be able to give me an indication of how much the modifications you had cost.

Many thanks,

Paul

Remapped TDI's are notorious for killing tired clutches so I would start there. Brakes next then suspension.

Hi Paul,

My car has done 78K from new so maybe a replacement clutch would be advisable. Definitely brakes and suspension cos i want the car to stop and to give much improved handling when negotiating bends/roundabouts as it wallows like a sealink ferry on a bad day with the standard 130bhp on tap.

Thanks for your advice.

Paul

Edited 3 October, 201015 yr by cantaffordavrs

78k isn't that much so I guess you might as well run on the old clutch till it dies. Just be prepared for that cost.

Coilovers will make a big difference to the handling, but at some loss of comfort. Lots of guys on audi-sport.net have been fitting JOM coilovers with good results, & price is a lot less than some of the better known brands.

Hi Matt,

thanks for replying to my posting.

It was interesting reading about all the mods you made. For me, the engine re-map, brake mods and suspension mods would be absolute minimum changes. The car rolls a bit through bends/roundabouts as it is, let alone having an extra 50bhp or so available. Would you be able to give me an indication of how much the modifications you had cost.

Many thanks,

Paul

I forgot to add on Pipercross Panel Filter

I guess in total about £2500 as I don't have the skills to carry out the work myself so that also include labour, the big costs were suspension (inc fitting +geo check) and the clutch (inc fitting).

My clutch was replaced at about 86,000 miles and only because it started to slip (remapped week before it started to slip, but I left the OEM DMF in and its not been replaced yet

I forgot to add on Pipercross Panel Filter

I guess in total about £2500 as I don't have the skills to carry out the work myself so that also include labour, the big costs were suspension (inc fitting +geo check) and the clutch (inc fitting).

My clutch was replaced at about 86,000 miles and only because it started to slip (remapped week before it started to slip, but I left the OEM DMF in and its not been replaced yet

Thanks for the details of the cost for the mods. I will have to think carefully about it, because I had a sum of £1500 as a potential budget as my car has been valued at £2,000 by the local dealer as a trade in. I would be wary of spending more than the car may be worth.

Best wishes,

Paul

78k isn't that much so I guess you might as well run on the old clutch till it dies. Just be prepared for that cost.

Coilovers will make a big difference to the handling, but at some loss of comfort. Lots of guys on audi-sport.net have been fitting JOM coilovers with good results, & price is a lot less than some of the better known brands.

Thanks Paul. Don't mind some loss of comfort in return for much improved handling. My only concern is what the mods might cost. I had a budget in mind of £1500 as the car has been valued at £2K by the local dealer as a trade in.

Paul

would like to extract more power out of the engine, whilst addressing the issue of handling as my car has enough problems dealing with the current 130bhp.

I'm curious about the handling issues you perceive because, apart from one rather specific issue, our PD130 estate handles well enough for any speeds I can manage on public roads.

The particular issue we had was that the body would go light after going over slight crests then come crashing down -- think Fen roads at speed for the worst type of road surface to provoke this, but it was easily evident just about anywhere in the UK -- so we have recently replaced the original dampers with Koni FSDs while (intentionally) keeping the original springs. The improvement has been marked and, I think, well worth the money.

As for performance, well, the car rapidly accelerates to beyond the UK speed limits and that's enough for me. If I had a significantly more powerful car I probably wouldn't get anywhere much quicker, especially since safety margins trump outright speed in almost all circumstances in road driving.

If you are really concerned about being quicker perhaps you might consider improving the brakes to reduce the rate at which brake fade comes in, with the aim of being able to use them a greater proportion of the time. The NSL roundabouts of Milton Keynes are a good place to find out how effective brakes aren't when repeatedly used.

Edited 5 October, 201015 yr by AnotherGareth

Just read subsequent comments about cornering and roundabouts ...

I suspect most cornering issues that people have relate to too high an entry speed - and most of this can be ameliorated by doing it differently. Have you considered spending some of the budget with a company like Ride Drive? (No affiliation, never even been a customer, and there are a number of other providers).

For a cheaper shortcut to what I mean, try driving the car as if it were an older 911 ...

More power won't give you more grip, so suspension mods are unnecessary unless you really can't get on with the roll rate as standard. Better dampers will help with the slight float all non-vRS mk1s have though.

So I'd go with 312mm front discs (needs caliper brackets, discs and new pads), so you have more braking capacity, FSDs, and the map. Of course, I rarely need to exceed 60<cough>mph on single carriageways, even when overtaking.

Just read subsequent comments about cornering and roundabouts ...

I suspect most cornering issues that people have relate to too high an entry speed - and most of this can be ameliorated by doing it differently. Have you considered spending some of the budget with a company like Ride Drive? (No affiliation, never even been a customer, and there are a number of other providers).

For a cheaper shortcut to what I mean, try driving the car as if it were an older 911 ...

Oddly, I'd have suggested the exact opposite; If you have to brake for a corner, brake late enough that you're still on the brakes when you turn in, which means the suspension is compressed, and this prevents transitional roll-understeer.

If you have to brake for a corner, brake late enough that you're still on the brakes when you turn in, which means the suspension is compressed, and this prevents transitional roll-understeer.

I think it's swings and roundabouts.

For road driving where vision limits speed, braking late into a corner means you can carry a higher speed on entry but you still have to transition to being on the throttle, so the weight shift must be handled in the bend, and you'll generally be on the power later, (i.e. after the limit point has started to move), so the exit speed is lower. The remaining claimed advantage is greater front end grip but, I'd argue, front end grip is only a limiting factor when you're carrying too much speed in, so it's not an advantage so much as a necessity to manage an earlier choice.

If your approach speed is lower, generally managed by completing the braking earlier, then you can be on the throttle and have balanced the car, waiting for the limit point to start to move, at which point you can accelerate to match the bend. Oftentimes you find you are accelerating through and out of the bend while a driver using the other technique is still braking. This sequence has the advantage that the main weight shift is managed before starting to turn in. The remaining issue to avoid is indelicate use of the throttle to avoid going wide on exit, but it's an easier problem to solve than the car not turning in enough under braking.

On a track it's a completely different situation where the good driver is attempting to transcribe the friction circle.

Oddly, I'd have suggested the exact opposite; If you have to brake for a corner, brake late enough that you're still on the brakes when you turn in, which means the suspension is compressed, and this prevents transitional roll-understeer.

And this is where Roadcraft differs significantly from what a racing instructor will tell you. The police view is that you don't mix braking and steering, (as a tyre only has a finite amount of grip you can use it for steering OR braking) whereas I have been told by racing instructors to do exactly what Ken says. This sharpens turn-in and actually balances the car better on the turn.

The police method compresses the front suspension whilst on the brakes, it rises again as you come off the brakes, only to dip again as you chuck it into the corner. Which all in all sounds to me like a good way to unstick the back wheels....

only to dip again as you chuck it into the corner.

Try instead using the phrase "starting to steer". The only way to compress the front suspension is if you are using your steering to scrub off speed, hence the weight transfer ...

Which all in all sounds to me like a good way to unstick the back wheels....

Unsticking the back wheels can only happen if you transfer weight to the front. Accelerating to maintain speed during a corner will keep the weight evenly distributed, and a bit more acceleration will push some weight onto the back wheels.

Edited 6 October, 201015 yr by AnotherGareth

Ignoring saftey the problem with trail braking is the transition between coming of the brakes onto the power as it causes upset in the cars balance. Unless your really good with your feet

However for most road driving the limit point is the limiting point when it comes to cornering speed not the cars ability. If you can't stop in the distance you see to be safe or even less then your buggered if somthing does happen.

Slow in, power, steer and more power

Buying suspension is a tricky one. Yes stiffer springs/dampers will make it feel more sporty but if the dampers can't keep the wheels in contact with the road then whats the point. This is what puts me off the cheaper kits on the market.

I'm curious about the handling issues you perceive because, apart from one rather specific issue, our PD130 estate handles well enough for any speeds I can manage on public roads.

The particular issue we had was that the body would go light after going over slight crests then come crashing down -- think Fen roads at speed for the worst type of road surface to provoke this, but it was easily evident just about anywhere in the UK -- so we have recently replaced the original dampers with Koni FSDs while (intentionally) keeping the original springs. The improvement has been marked and, I think, well worth the money.

As for performance, well, the car rapidly accelerates to beyond the UK speed limits and that's enough for me. If I had a significantly more powerful car I probably wouldn't get anywhere much quicker, especially since safety margins trump outright speed in almost all circumstances in road driving.

If you are really concerned about being quicker perhaps you might consider improving the brakes to reduce the rate at which brake fade comes in, with the aim of being able to use them a greater proportion of the time. The NSL roundabouts of Milton Keynes are a good place to find out how effective brakes aren't when repeatedly used.

Hi Gareth,

Ever since I drove the car out of the showroom, I would say the only thing that lets the car down is the body roll in bends and roundabouts even at low speed. I'm looking to improve the handling and prevent the sealink ferry effect. I appreciate your advice about the brakes and the dampers. I worked in Milton Keynes for 6 years and that was where the car's weakness really showed, otherwise it was very very good.

Just read subsequent comments about cornering and roundabouts ...

I suspect most cornering issues that people have relate to too high an entry speed - and most of this can be ameliorated by doing it differently. Have you considered spending some of the budget with a company like Ride Drive? (No affiliation, never even been a customer, and there are a number of other providers).

For a cheaper shortcut to what I mean, try driving the car as if it were an older 911 ...

There's nothing wrong with my driving technique - just the car! It can't negotiate roundabouts at same speed as standard vauxhall astra, ford focus without serious body roll. I'm no boy racer, but I do enjoy brisk and safe motoring and the 130bhp Octavia can't seem to handle that. I drove a 1.6 litre petrol model and it didnt seem to be as bad even though it was much older. Not sure why. Appreciate your advice Gareth. I will certainly look into the dampers if they will result in a lack of body roll.

Thanks,

Paul

More power won't give you more grip, so suspension mods are unnecessary unless you really can't get on with the roll rate as standard. Better dampers will help with the slight float all non-vRS mk1s have though.

So I'd go with 312mm front discs (needs caliper brackets, discs and new pads), so you have more braking capacity, FSDs, and the map. Of course, I rarely need to exceed 60<cough>mph on single carriageways, even when overtaking.

Hi Ken,

I'd like a re-map and some extra bhp, but the main priority would be the suspension and the brakes. Body roll is excessive, especially when cornering or going round roundabouts. Would the mods youve suggested elimnate body roll and improve braking at a reasonable financial outlay?

Front and rear anti roll bars and vag 312mm upgrade.

Front and rear anti roll bars and vag 312mm upgrade.

Was just going to say that! A lot of people (ok, mostly with VRS models) say that the rear anti-roll bar is the single most effective mod for tightening up handling. I've not seen anyone on here do it with a non-VRS though (so far).....

Old skool TaviaRS fitted nuespeed front and rear anti roll bars along with kw v3 (with linear springs) to his L&K with excellent results. Just ask the 911 owner at a scooby trackday lol

my old pd130 has also had a rear ARB fitted and its current owner said it feels a whole lot better with it

Hi Ken,

I'd like a re-map and some extra bhp, but the main priority would be the suspension and the brakes. Body roll is excessive, especially when cornering or going round roundabouts. Would the mods youve suggested elimnate body roll and improve braking at a reasonable financial outlay?

Here we clearly disagree, because I don't find the roll rate of the Elegance excessive. You'll clearly need heavier ARBs (both ends, but note there is no RARB as standard) or springs to reduce the body roll. For some reason, the vRS seems to have a major imbalance in its front and rear roll rates, which is why a RARB works so well on them.