I don't find the roll rate of the Elegance excessive.

I'm with you on this -- I've never thought that the cornering lean in our car is excessive but I guess now I'll be thinking about it a bit more -- and I reckon it also depends on what you've also driven ...

We've had numerous Alfa Alfetta and derived cars. Many people object to the amount of roll they have, but the design of the suspension was such that grip was maintained even with a fair degree of body roll, so really the problem there was in people's minds rather than in reality. The suspension was unlike anything I've seen in more modern cars - torsion springs are the front, mounted with differing numbers of splines at each end which gave a vernier like control of ride height, and a rather weird rear axle arrangement that kept the rear wheels vertical even under huge cornering loads.

Back to the Octavia, and I suspect that even if body roll was a problem on our estate, the Koni FSD dampers may well have improved the situation by resisting the low frequency inputs to a greater extent than the high frequency inputs.

Edited 12 October, 201015 yr by AnotherGareth

I'm with you on this -- I've never thought that the cornering lean in our car is excessive but I guess now I'll be thinking about it a bit more -- and I reckon it also depends on what you've also driven ...

We've had numerous Alfa Alfetta and derived cars. Many people object to the amount of roll they have, but the design of the suspension was such that grip was maintained even with a fair degree of body roll, so really the problem there was in people's minds rather than in reality. The suspension was unlike anything I've seen in more modern cars - torsion springs are the front, mounted with differing numbers of splines at each end which gave a vernier like control of ride height, and a rather weird rear axle arrangement that kept the rear wheels vertical even under huge cornering loads.

Back to the Octavia, and I suspect that even if body roll was a problem on our estate, the Koni FSD dampers may well have improved the situation by resisting the low frequency inputs to a greater extent than the high frequency inputs.

Dampers don't control roll except in very short duration corners where lock is on for such a short time that you don't reach the roll limit before starting to straighten up.

Side-bar on the Alfetta. Don't understand your description of the front suspension, but suspect the rear may be a "De Dion" axle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Dion_tube

Dampers don't control roll except in very short duration corners where lock is on for such a short time that you don't reach the roll limit before starting to straighten up.

Thinking about it, except for large roundabouts you dont really have lock on for long on the public highway. Nicci's Clio RS is a good example. On the road their is little roll but seeing (Not had the pleasure yet :( ) pictures of them on track they do roll.

Don't understand your description of the front suspension

Conceptually a bit like an anti-roll bar really ... the 'spring' for the front suspension is a long metal bar attached at the forward end to the lower wishbone and attached at the rearward end to the body, somewhere under the front seats. Imagine a coil spring that's been unraveled although actually it's the other way around - coil springs are torsion bars that have been curled up.

Added: Found a page with photos, http://www.hiperformancestore.com/AlfaSuspension.htm. Also, forgot to emphasise that the ends of the torsion bars are attached using the splines. Because there are different numbers of splines at each end, (odd and even I think), each end of the bar can be fitted at a different rotation allowing fine adjustment of ride height.

From the workshop manual

The front suspension height is adjusted by rotating the torsion bars. The different number of splines at the ends of the torsion bars, i.e. 35 at the front and 34 at the rear, allows for a minimum correction of 1.5mm., which corresponds to the rotation by one spline.

suspect the rear may be a "De Dion" axle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Dion_tube

See http://www.hiperformancestore.com/Gtv6Fiat600.htm for a photo and a better explanation than I can manage.

Edited 12 October, 201015 yr by AnotherGareth

Another resurrection! I was on hols at the wrong time!

Looking at Gareth's link, the Alfa front is independant torsion bars; there's not a whole lot more needs saying there! You'd made it sound more complicated than it is mate.

And the rear is either a strut or a strut and top link system; that photo doesn't show clearly what the item that looks like a Watts link attached to the rear diff cover is doing on the car (needs shot from rear, including hub carriers to show whether the outer ends attach to the hubs or the shell.

And the rear is either a strut or a strut and top link system; that photo doesn't show clearly what the item that looks like a Watts link attached to the rear diff cover is doing on the car (needs shot from rear, including hub carriers to show whether the outer ends attach to the hubs or the shell.

All the places where the rear suspension attaches to the body are shown in the third photo in the last link. I found a photo showing the suspension attached to a car. You can see how the gearbox is firmly attached to the body with the triangle of the suspension floating below it, fixed at a pivot point at the front of the triangle, at the back via the dampers and with the watts linkage.

Cheers mate; it actually is a form of de Dion axle then, but with locating arms brought forward to the transaxle nose, and the dead beam taken around the tail of the trans rather than over it.