My Yeti 1.2 DSG has standard 17" alloys and, after reading The Plumber's excellent guide, and I have decided to fit 16" steels wheels + winter/cold weather tyres. Always keen to do the right thing I called my insurance company (>THAN) to see if I would need to notify them of a change from standard to 'winter' tyres and, if so, whether or not they would charge me (circa £26) for modifying the policy.

I think the call centre was in a part of the world unfamiliar with winter conditions in north east Scotland and the 'advisor' had never heard of 'winter tyres'. She asked me if the change to winter tyres would "improve the performance of the vehicle". When I said it would improve the performance of the vehicle in that it would improve the handling in cold/wet/snow conditions she said in that case it would be considered as a performance modification and I would have to inform the company of the exact details for them to re-quote the premium (+ charges an amendment fee). However when I said the change of tyres would not affect the vehicle's performance in terms of acceleration or top speed she said that wouldn't be considered a modification. It sounded like she was reading from a card and was not listening to what I was saying.

There was clearly no point in mentioning the possible wheel size change as well (or the resultant marginal change in overall wheel diameter!). ~I think the best way forward is once I have the exact specification of the new wheels and tyres I'll advise the insurer by email and get a written response to avoid any future difficulties in the event of a claim. You would think insurance companies would make it easy for customers to improve the safety of their vehicles by providing some simple guidelines. Does anyone else have any useful advice/experience?

Thanks

Del

I was thinking of the very same thing yesterday as I am insured with Churchill and I read an old post from someone who got charged an additional premium for putting on winter wheels and tyres which I think is ludicrous as surely you are making your vehicle safer in those conditions than someone who doesnt have them on, so should be no additional premium at best ??

They dont exactly promote safe practise by fleecing the drivers at every opportunity ! I still haven't approached my insurers yet even though they have a section on their website promoting the use of winter tyres, but they dont mention if they will charge you for the privilige of being a safer driver !

Anyone insured by a company who wont charge for safety ???

I went through similar hell with Direct Line. They said it was an upgrade, I said it made the car safer in the winter months. They agreed in the end not to increase premium but I too wonder if I should also disclose the different tyre size.

They kept banging on about this upgrade and I kept saying, I'm taking the alloys off and putting steels on....

I hate call centres!

Andy

Just spoken to my insurers about it (Churchill) who, despite having a lovely webpage advocating the use of winter tyres as a safety issue, WILL charge you for the privilige of putting them on because they claim it is a modification !!.....

Ridiculous to be charged for something which will improve the safety of your car when they will blindly go on insuring people and paying out for those who have had a prang by sliding into the back of somoene !!??

Absolutely ludricous in my mind im afraid and if anyone knows of an insurer who does not charge for this, then let me know and I will change my policy over.

I may be simple but surely fitting different wheels/tyres is akin to using different fuels.

As long as the wheel and tyre sizes are in accordance with those quoted in the handbook, I cannot see that there is any need at all to tell the insurer. I don't phone up my insurer when I put in Shell Optomax or whatever they call it these days. Now if I were to fit wider alloys/tyres than those detailed by Skoda, then I can see a definite need to advise the insurer.

If you were unfortunate enough to have a collision or god forbid something involving serious injury, or worse, the Police would check that the construction and condition of the tyre at the time of the incident was in accordance with Skoda's specifications and any legal requirements. If tyres met or exceeded those quoted by Skoda, colleagues of mine involved in this work would see the fitment of properly sized and good condition winter tyres in a positive light and that ultimately is what an insurer will be interested in.

I know that the MoD Police themselves (and I am sure others) fit winter mud and snow tyres and will fit a non standard wheel to enable the change.

Please don't quote me though.

Well I think you will find that insurers like mine, WILL charge you or even invalidate your insurance if you swop over to winter tyres and not tell them !

I agree with you its an absurdity which I find startling, but I have spoken on the phone to my insurers today and they class even changing the tyres to winter tyres as a modification and will charge for that. Ridiculous ! So using their logic every time you have a service and the recommendation is that you need a new tyre, do you have to run cap in hand to your insurer to make sure its ok ?.....course not so why are winter tyres different.

Apparantly if you get the car from new and they come with winter tyres thats different, as they are not classed as a modification, or if you get them with the car as an extra from new they will not be classed as a modification until you physically change them over. The whole thing is an ass.

yours lividly

Edited 13 October, 201015 yr by redandwhitepauly

Personally I think the insurers have a point. If you have winter tyres on you are likely to be tempted to venture out in poor conditions and hence be more likely to have an accident. Surely winter tyres only help improve the grip for moving away in snow, they will be no better at starting or stopping on sheet ice than normal tyres.

And the tyres may not be so suitable for high speed use on normal dry roads when the weather is clement.

I have qualms about keeping the factory fitted tyres on through the winter.

The Goodyear Excellence tyres it's fitted with are clearly described everywhere as 'Summer' tyres and I feel uncomfortable about this.

My intention is to send a letter (not even an email) to my insurers (Directline) when I make the swap to my Audi alloys fitted with Falken winter tyres and see what they come up with - spec of wheels and tyres is in exact accordance with that described in the Skoda handbook. I will make it clear that the tyres coming off are described as 'Summer' tyres. Being UK managed, hopefully they will understand the logic behind this.

I'll probably use some Halfords screenwash during the winter as well, that's not made by Skoda - I might put that in the second letter to them when I refuse to pay any increased premium.

Seriously, hopefully any switched on insurers will recognise changing climate and sensible motorists using more appropriate tyres. It would be helpful if they could clarify things like this in their paperwork.

Personally I think the insurers have a point. If you have winter tyres on you are likely to be tempted to venture out in poor conditions and hence be more likely to have an accident. Surely winter tyres only help improve the grip for moving away in snow, they will be no better at starting or stopping on sheet ice than normal tyres.

And the tyres may not be so suitable for high speed use on normal dry roads when the weather is clement.

I'm sorry but you are wrong.

I don't intend to go anywhere that I wouldn't have done before using winter tyres.

Winter tyres have widely published tests that show that they are better than ordinary tyres on all surfaces including snow, ice and water as long as the temperature is below +7 centigrade.

The winter tyres that I have bought have a speed rating that is comfortably above that needed for my Yeti. The only reason not to use them during warmer weather is that they are likely to wear more quickly.

Personally I think the insurers have a point. If you have winter tyres on you are likely to be tempted to venture out in poor conditions and hence be more likely to have an accident. Surely winter tyres only help improve the grip for moving away in snow, they will be no better at starting or stopping on sheet ice than normal tyres.

And the tyres may not be so suitable for high speed use on normal dry roads when the weather is clement.

:wall:

I'm sorry but you are wrong.

I don't intend to go anywhere that I wouldn't have done before using winter tyres.

Winter tyres have widely published tests that show that they are better than ordinary tyres on all surfaces including snow, ice and water as long as the temperature is below +7 centigrade.

The winter tyres that I have bought have a speed rating that is comfortably above that needed for my Yeti Superb. The only reason not to use them during warmer weather is that they are likely to wear more quickly.

+1

Personally I think the insurers have a point. If you have winter tyres on you are likely to be tempted to venture out in poor conditions and hence be more likely to have an accident. Surely winter tyres only help improve the grip for moving away in snow, they will be no better at starting or stopping on sheet ice than normal tyres.

And the tyres may not be so suitable for high speed use on normal dry roads when the weather is clement.

I think you need to read the long thread by TP about winter tyres!

They improve pulling away.

They improve starting.

They improve braking.

They improve handling.

They are perfectly safe on dry hot tarmac.

They meet ALL the EU tyre regulations.

Personally I think the insurers have a point. If you have winter tyres on you are likely to be tempted to venture out in poor conditions and hence be more likely to have an accident. Surely winter tyres only help improve the grip for moving away in snow, they will be no better at starting or stopping on sheet ice than normal tyres.

And the tyres may not be so suitable for high speed use on normal dry roads when the weather is clement.

Sorry but I too dont accept your argument - are you then saying that people should pay more for being in parts of the country where it shows they have sunnier weather or less rain because more of them will venture onto the roads ?....thats silly. Just as many people will go out in cars with summer tyres on than if they had winter ones on, even more so if insurers will charge you for changing them.

You only have to look at european countries who are used to this kind of weather and see their approach to the whole thing, and as usual we are a long way of their levels of common sense to winter driving.

The bottom line for most insurance companies is to get as much money in as possible against any risk. This is of course balanced against remaining competetive. Undeclared mods give them the get out option in the event of a claim. So, declaring mods gives them the opportunity to fleece a few extra quid out of you. For most of them common sense is not an option or even knowledgable call centre staff come to that, for example, some of them even try to claim manufacturers options count as modifications, while some don't.

They should encourage the fitting of winter tyres and even offer a discount to encourage it. However until UK law changes to bring us in line with the europeans on the winter tyre issue or is worded to encourage their use this will remain another opportunity to grab a few extra quid off us. Of course if it does change the insurance companies will then have a new chance to get out of paying up or charging extra premiums if you don't have winter tyres!

Surely the crux of the matter of this; is the fitments of winter wheels/tyres 'Manufacturer approved'?

The answer to this is surely 'YES' providing you stick to the wheel/tyre sizes listed in the Vehicle Handbook.

Therefore if you are complying with the Manufacturer's approved 'option' then surely any Insurer will be satisfied.

...... or is this too simple a solution?

I spoke to my broker a couple of days ago, explained the situation and he said it wasn't a modification. But as I haven't got the Yeti yet, it is too early to comment, but looks promising.

Mike

Edited 13 October, 201015 yr by rockhopper

Personally I think the insurers have a point. If you have winter tyres on you are likely to be tempted to venture out in poor conditions and hence be more likely to have an accident. Surely winter tyres only help improve the grip for moving away in snow, they will be no better at starting or stopping on sheet ice than normal tyres.

And the tyres may not be so suitable for high speed use on normal dry roads when the weather is clement.

Ahem, check out this well touted

on the subject, and then tell me that again.....

Niall

Yes sadly for mr fowler you only have to look at winter tyre comparison tests on you tube and there are many examples of testing which conclusively show that winter tyres are a totally different animal to summer tyres and even all season tyres.

Evidence is there for all to see fraid.

Surely the crux of the matter of this; is the fitments of winter wheels/tyres 'Manufacturer approved'?

The answer to this is surely 'YES' providing you stick to the wheel/tyre sizes listed in the Vehicle Handbook.

Therefore if you are complying with the Manufacturer's approved 'option' then surely any Insurer will be satisfied.

...... or is this too simple a solution?

I think you're spot on. With the motoring press and the AA and RAC both actively promoting the use of Winter tyres for improved safety I think insurance companies should simply accept the fitting of wheel/tyres of sizes/types that comply with the manufacturers' approved specifications. Notwithstanding an earlier point about drivers being inclined to take more risks in poor conditions I think the fitting of tyres that are appropriate for the prevailing weather conditions would result in an overall reduction in risk and therefore in accident payouts. The big downside to all this is that any drivers who fail to notify their insurers of such modifications face a real risk of finding themselves uninsured in the event of a claim.

.......................... The big downside to all this is that any drivers who fail to notify their insurers of such modifications face a real risk of finding themselves uninsured in the event of a claim.

No; that's my whole point (unless I am misinterpreting your post) to fit winter tyres is not a modification providing it is within wheel/tyre sizes specified by the Manufacturer.

No; that's my whole point (unless I am misinterpreting your post) to fit winter tyres is not a modification providing it is within wheel/tyre sizes specified by the Manufacturer.

Can you let Churchill Insurance know that then !!!

My insurer says that as long as I abide by and keep within the manufacturer's stated sizing and ratings then winter tyres are NOT a modification, however if I fit ANY different wheels to that which my car came as standard then they would consider that a modification, and there "may" be a charge impossed.

If you take this to a logical conclusion, those insurers complaining, could also state that you can only fit the same tyres the car came with, otherwise that is a modification! :wonder:

This whole debate is exactly why I decided to stop trying to find cheap alloys on eBay/online and get the whole shebang delivered as part of my order. My set of winter wheels will thus just be an option on my delivery invoice in exactly the same way the sunroof is and it will be to Skoda's specification. I hope that will be enough for the insurers.

This whole debate is exactly why I decided to stop trying to find cheap alloys on eBay/online and get the whole shebang delivered as part of my order. My set of winter wheels will thus just be an option on my delivery invoice in exactly the same way the sunroof is and it will be to Skoda's specification. I hope that will be enough for the insurers.

Sound thinking.

No; that's my whole point (unless I am misinterpreting your post) to fit winter tyres is not a modification providing it is within wheel/tyre sizes specified by the Manufacturer.

You may well be right but it's too important to leave to chance, no matter how reasonable your assumption may seem - if insurers can find a way out of a claim they will. Three phone calls to "MORETHAN" have failed to clarify the position with the last call centre advisor simply stating that they must be advised of any modification to the standard specification that affects the vehicle's performance without being able to explain what that means. Others have had similar experiences with major insurers. Another point is what are the 'sizes specified or approved by the manufacturer'? In the Owners' Manual it states (page 220) :"You must only fit those types of winter tyre which are approved for your vehicle. The permissible sizes of winter tyres are stated in your vehicle documents. Approvals may differ because of national legislation." Does anyone know where this is stated in the "vehicle documents"? - I may have missed it but 've been through everything and can only find tyre specs in relation to fitting the dreaded snow chains I've asked my dealer (the excellent Thomson and Potter ) for guidance.

As I intend fitting 16" steel wheels which are standard on the "Yeti E" but not available with the "SE" will this count a a non-standard fit? [by way of a more extreme example I bet if you tried to fit the top of the range bling BMW 20" alloys to your bottom of the range 3 series the insurers would consider that to be a non-standard 'modification'].

Thanks to all for your contributions so far.

This whole debate is exactly why I decided to stop trying to find cheap alloys on eBay/online and get the whole shebang delivered as part of my order. My set of winter wheels will thus just be an option on my delivery invoice in exactly the same way the sunroof is and it will be to Skoda's specification. I hope that will be enough for the insurers.

Whilst it's too late for me to add to the order I think I'll end up going down a similar line by getting a main dealer to supply the approved OEM wheels and tyres