Why should you feel you have the right to shout abuse if the other driver could not see you because you were foolish enough to drive in conditions when your car couldn't be seen by other drivers, without your lights on.

Where did i say i was driving with sidelights on in pitch black?

If i have sidelights on, theres a bit of spray, or the light is only just beginning to fade. Anyone who cant see me shouldn't be on the road in the first place.

You Must

Use sidelights between sunset and sunrise.

Use Headlights at night (between half an hour after sunset and Half an hour before sunrise) on roads without street-lighting and on roads where the street lights are more than 185 metres apart (600ft) apart or not lit.

It also states

You Should

Use dipped headlights at night in built up arias unless the road is well lit.

Cut down Glare. If your vehicle has Dim-dip, use it instead of dipped headlights in dull daytime weather and at night in built up areas with good street lighting.

So driving through my main road whic leads into town i can only have my sidelights on and not get royaly butt ****** by the police?

I use my headlights all the time, habit from work. Why not tho? Far fewer people pull out on me when I do also.

Often in rain, and the wrong light, it's almost impossible to see cars with just side lights on out off a window in a mirror. IMO, if it's poor enough light for side lights just put headlights on

Matt

I use my headlights all the time, habit from work. Why not tho? Far fewer people pull out on me when I do also.

This statement scares me.

Its one thing arguing about the level of light required to use side/head lights. Its completely different suggesting we need headlights all day.

If this truely is the case, then the UK desperately needs to start doing regular eye tests for drivers.

Where did i say i was driving with sidelights on in pitch black?

If i have sidelights on, theres a bit of spray, or the light is only just beginning to fade. Anyone who cant see me shouldn't be on the road in the first place.

My original point was that with the sidelights of most cars, in dim or sub optimal conditions (e.g. spray) you see the car approaching LONG before you see the sidelights are on. So - given that - what's the point? They don't assist you becoming more visible to other drivers.

Even worse, take this example. You're on a motorway at dusk or in mild spray conditions. 95%+ of other cars have headlights on. You check your wing mirror before pulling out, and you see a gap between two cars with headlights on. Indicate, and double check mirror before committing to the manouvre only to find that what you thought was a gap was actually a car with sidelights. The contrast differential looked like a gap initially. The test I use to myself is "How well do I show up compared to other cars who also don't have lights on?" I never use sidelights for anything.

IIRC Roadcraft says that if your wipers are on, so should your headlights? Can't remember though if it's wipers on continuous or intermittent. (And yes, I realise that this is only advice or a suggestion - but it makes sense to me!)

Even worse, take this example. You're on a motorway at dusk or in mild spray conditions. 95%+ of other cars have headlights on. You check your wing mirror before pulling out, and you see a gap between two cars with headlights on. Indicate, and double check mirror before committing to the manouvre only to find that what you thought was a gap was actually a car with sidelights. The contrast differential looked like a gap initially. The test I use to myself is "How well do I show up compared to other cars who also don't have lights on?" I never use sidelights for anything.

To be honest, in that scenario, i shouldn't need lights anyway, because

1. You should be able to see me regardless of my lights

2. You should be monitoring your rear view mirror for a while before manouvering

or we have different intepretations of dusk/light spray.

This statement scares me.

Its one thing arguing about the level of light required to use side/head lights. Its completely different suggesting we need headlights all day.

If this truely is the case, then the UK desperately needs to start doing regular eye tests for drivers.

To be honest, in that scenario, i shouldn't need lights anyway, because

1. You should be able to see me regardless of my lights

2. You should be monitoring your rear view mirror for a while before manouvering

or we have different intepretations of dusk/light spray.

Well I'm sorry to say but your whole attitude and responses are even more scary.

Do you honestly believe that you are safe driving on a spray covered motorway with only sidelights on?

I suggest that it is about time you took some further driver training from RoSPA or the IAM.

Personally I think side lights should only ever be used when parking, and that light switches on cars should be redesigned so that the FIRST position is headlights, and then the rest.

Edited 1 November, 201015 yr by Llanigraham

Personally I think side lights should only ever be used when parking, and that light switches on cars should be redesigned so that the FIRST position is headlights, and then the rest.

+1

Even better, make parking lights a separate switch, which doesn't work when the car is moving.

Or make "parking lights" a function of headlights ON and ignition off/key removed and do away with sidelight switch altogether.

Sidelights are just a danger when the car is in motion.

To be honest, in that scenario, i shouldn't need lights anyway, because

1. You should be able to see me regardless of my lights

2. You should be monitoring your rear view mirror for a while before manouvering

or we have different intepretations of dusk/light spray.

Someone has already replied with the LEGAL definitions of Dusk and Dawn; perhaps instead of blaming everyones eyesight you should think about your own stupidity; your replies are infantile as best and downright arrogant at worst.

1/ When looking into a rear view or wing mirror in poor light/weather conditions you are staring at the headlights of people who are NOT idiots; your eyes adjust to make these lights bearable and so reduce the sensitivity, making dark objects, like morons driving on side/no lights effectively invisible unless they obscure another cars lights while you are watching

In wet weather you are also looking through 2 spray patterns being thrown off of your tyres and and a third caused by the cars aerodynamics; since they are very close to your car, the effects are greater, so reducing the visibility of dark objects and scattering the light of bright ones; which is why visibility can be really bad in heavy rain and bright sunlight.

2/ If you are staring into your mirror looking for morons before you manoeuvre , who is watching the road ahead??

Dusk = 30 minutes after sunset

Dawn = 30 minutes before sunrise

I hope when you are killed by some poor driver who cant see you, you do not cause any innocent soul to be killed or maimed.

Side lights are best used in fog :S

On a personal note, I use my side lights to light up the front of the garage at night.

Sidelights in fog are OK if you're crawling and using front fogs, then you avoid the bouce-back from dipped headlamps. Other than that, they're not visible enough.

Well I'm sorry to say but your whole attitude and responses are even more scary.

Do you honestly believe that you are safe driving on a spray covered motorway with only sidelights on?

I suggest that it is about time you took some further driver training from RoSPA or the IAM.

Personally I think side lights should only ever be used when parking, and that light switches on cars should be redesigned so that the FIRST position is headlights, and then the rest.

I think the light switch should be ON or OFF, with the side/head switching done via the ignition switch. Mind you, DRLs change things.

+1

Even better, make parking lights a separate switch, which doesn't work when the car is moving.

Or make "parking lights" a function of headlights ON and ignition off/key removed and do away with sidelight switch altogether.

Sidelights are just a danger when the car is in motion.

Indeed.

Someone has already replied with the LEGAL definitions of Dusk and Dawn; perhaps instead of blaming everyones eyesight you should think about your own stupidity; your replies are infantile as best and downright arrogant at worst.

More petty insults, well done

1/ When looking into a rear view or wing mirror in poor light/weather conditions you are staring at the headlights of people who are NOT idiots; your eyes adjust to make these lights bearable and so reduce the sensitivity, making dark objects, like morons driving on side/no lights effectively invisible unless they obscure another cars lights while you are watching

I completely agree.

The bit i disagree with, is the fact this is the very second the light starts to fade.

Theres no doubt in my mind, anyone with acceptable levels of vision will never have any problems seeing my car

2/ If you are staring into your mirror looking for morons before you manoeuvre , who is watching the road ahead??

Silly me for using my mirrors reguarly.

Theres no doubt in my mind, anyone with acceptable levels of vision will never have any problems seeing my car

But why take the risk - just use your headlights and see the light (as it were) - you know it makes sense

Theres no doubt in my mind, anyone with acceptable levels of vision will never have any problems seeing my car

But why make yourself less visible than you could be?

But why take the risk - just use your headlights and see the light (as it were) - you know it makes sense

If they cant see a dirty great car, what chance do motorbikers, cyclists, and pedestrians stand?

Why encourage people with dodgy eyesight?

If they cant see a dirty great car, what chance do motorbikers, cyclists, and pedestrians stand?

Why encourage people with dodgy eyesight?

In those conditions, cyclists and bikers should have lights on too- motorbikes would have dipped headlights. Cyclists and pedestrians woukld have a lower closing speed, pedestrians should be on the pavement anyway, and if in the road should be looking. i take your point about eyesight, but why make it harder? It's not much good saying 'you should have seen me' when you're at the side of the road injured...

Snail,

have you ever considered taking a driving assesment course with RoSPA or the IAM?

If they cant see a dirty great car, what chance do motorbikers, cyclists, and pedestrians stand?

Ok try thinking about it this way - you are involved in an accident when you only had sidelights on in a situation where all other drivers were using their headlights... Who would take the blame - I'd suggest you may be as a result of the contributing factor.

Another example - I drive an MX5 regularly and even in broad daylight some people don't notice me because the car is small and not as visible as other larger vehicles. That is not to say that they have bad eyesight or are bad drivers or don;t look it 's just that the car is small and doesn't flag in thier peripheral vision. I put my lights on, I'm instantly more visible in thier peripheral vision and the problem goes away. I don't do that for thier benefit necessarily but to reduce the risk, avoid an accident involving both of us and to make life easier for me.

Or think of this one - you knock a pedestrian or cyclist over as they pull out / cross because they don't see you against a background of other car's headlights because you don't have your headlights on - again who's to blame. You could argue that it's not you but I'd wager you'd end up in court over it because you didn't have your headlights on and were a contributory factor giving little consideration to other road users. If that person were injured or killed then I would hope you would be able to live with the consequences.

All of this discussion is because you won't consider how you apear from someone else's point of view.

Make life easy, avoid the risk to you and others and make yourself more visible.

+1 Skomaz, as they dont have an up-voting system on here now.

Snail; if you talk like a **** and act like a **** do not be surprised when people call you a ****.

Now now chaps .....

Without getting into a who said what I've just had a little skim through this thread and I think it's time you all calm down a touch.

Thank you please .....

I run most of the time with my lights on (Xenon's) on way to work and when I finish. People move out of the way quicker because they notice you coming up behind them.

Anything which will get you noticed. I even ran round Castle Combe at 2pm with my Xenon's on. Anything to get people to spot me so they know where I am

I run most of the time with my lights on (Xenon's) on way to work and when I finish. People move out of the way quicker because they notice you coming up behind them.

Anything which will get you noticed. I even ran round Castle Combe at 2pm with my Xenon's on. Anything to get people to spot me so they know where I am

I've started using lights a lot of the time too- though I've always used them in any sort of reduced visibility. As you say, it never hurts to be visible.

Im reading all these reasons for not having your lights on "other people should see me in the dark" etc etc why harm does it do to have your lights on? I mean really, honestly, for the sake of flicking the lights on to save people pulling out etc, its pathetic.

Matt

Im reading all these reasons for not having your lights on "other people should see me in the dark" etc etc why harm does it do to have your lights on? I mean really, honestly, for the sake of flicking the lights on to save people pulling out etc, its pathetic.

A site that might be of interest -> http://www.lightsout.org/

Chris

My god, i'v only read the first paragraph. What a load of crap. Vunrable road users?! If people are scared of lights maybe thay should walk. And how can dipped headlights glare in the day light?! And as for it not making you more visible having lights on, try coming out for the day with me, or ask why my company are wiring all our lights to come on with the ignition etc. What a joke

Matt

A site that might be of interest -> http://www.lightsout.org/

Chris

I've looked at some of these studies and as is normal for statistics, they only point out the ones that help their cause.

One of the studies I looked at in more detail showed an 8% increase in accidents after DRLs were introduced, however, they didn't point out that there was 18% more vehicles on the road in the same time period... Statistics can be used to "prove" just about anything if you cherry pick the figures...