Hi there, This is my first post, so please bear with me! I've got a 2002 Fabia 1.4 mpi Estate. Recently the Eng Management warning light came on. (No other light - temperature was normal). My neighbour has the VAG diagnostic download on his laptop - and the only fault indicated was with the cooling system. When he took a look under the bonnet, there was tell-tale 'mayo' inside the coolant expansion tank, AND under the oil filler cap. Expecting the worst (Head Gasket) , I asked the small local garage I normally use to take a look. They did a block test and, they say two pressure tests. All came back negative for head gasket problems. They drained & changed cooolant, changed oil & new oil filter. The car is running okay - but then it was before. (I've also noticed there's a fair amount of water coming out of my exhaust pipe, although it was a hard frost this morning, so I guess that may be normal.)

I got the car back just two days ago, and I've just taken a look again - small amounts of 'mayo' are now starting to appear on both coolant & oil filler caps once again! I'm not keen to take it back to the garage without any further clue as to what it might be, as, being a lone female, I'll probably just be charged again for explorative work. (Any possibility it may be condensation not burning off, due to the recent temerature changes and my not using the car much recently? I've heard that's true for motor cycles, but cars?) Any ideas as to what this might be would be greatly appreciated? (By the way, I'm not very technical - sorry!)

Cheers. Sharon.

Hi Sharon, what sort of driving do you do? You will tend to get this build up and it is fairly normal if the car doesn't get drove often and when the car is only doing short journeys.

I'd agree with 'short run syndrome', although mayo in the expansion tank is rather more of a worry since oil getting in the coolant can't be explained away like water in the oil (condensation). I always recommend this guide:

http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/HOW-TO-TEST-FOR-A-FAILED-HEAD-GASKET_W0QQugidZ10000000001891247

...even though it's ALL IN CAPITAL LETTERS, WHICH MAKES IT A BIT HARD TO READ!!!

Has blue coolant been added at some point? This will make an oily appearing gel. Did the garage put blue coolant in instead of the correct red type? (Red G12, G12+, or G12++). If the answer to either is yes it may be a good idea to give the cooling system a good flush, preferably using chemicals to disperse the gel made by incompatible coolants being present in the system. BTW a garage saying they flushed the coolant system does not usually mean much as they often take so little time doing it or don't bother and say they did.

I think water coming out the exhaust is quite normal as it's just condensation, continuous clouds of white smoke and coolant level continuously dropping are something to be concerned about.

Another thing that may contribute to the mayo is if the thermostat is faulty, a common problem on the 1.4mpi as the clips inside break. In this situation the engine may never heat up enough to fully remove any condensation. Does the Temp get up to the middle of the gauge pretty quickly and stay there? Do the blowers get to feel warmer than air temp within 5 minutes? As a fault code has been logged it is probably the temp sender fault (none others for the cooling system come to mind), although I am sure I have seen this code come up when just the thermostat is not at its best (as the computer sees something wrong with the temperature range). http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Skoda-Fabia-1-0-1-4-Mpi-Thermostat-Complete-BRAND-NEW-/390106754590?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5ad42cae1e includes the whole housing, thermostat and temp sender for £30.

Edited 26 November, 201015 yr by anewman

Good point with the coolant. I had all sorts of problems when blue coolant was put in without the old red stuff being flushed out properly:

In theory there's nothing wrong with blue coolant, but it shouldn't be mixed with red so it's better just to stick with the red stuff.

3rded for "short run syndrome". So good call on the base cause Sharon.

As ap0gee says, oil in the water is more of a worry. Still, if someone (a previous owner probably) got some oil in the water system...

[edit addition]

I'd agree with the comments about mixing G12 series coolant with a blue glycol coolant that appeared while I was reading the thread too.

Edited 26 November, 201015 yr by KenONeill

Hi guys - Thank you for your replies. Really appreciate your time.

I had never heard of 'short run' sydrome, so it may well be the case as I only work part-time and don't often use the car when I'm not working.

The temperature sensor was changed about a year ago, as the gauge was fixed and not moving at all. It's been okay since then, but once I'm on a decent run (over the weekend) I will check that it's coming up to half-way in a reasonable time and that the heater is working properly- as I guess it could be a thermostat problem as you say.

I've had the car from new, and as far as I'm aware the coolant has always been of the 'pink' variety. The stuff in the expansion tank is definitely 'white-ish' rather than a gel. The same stuff that's under the oil cap.

Could all be a coincidence I suppose - a duff thermostat for the coolant problem and the 'short run' syndrome for the oil one? I'll check out the links you kindly gave too.

Thanks again.

Sharon.

Has blue coolant been added at some point? This will make an oily appearing gel. Did the garage put blue coolant in instead of the correct red type? (Red G12, G12+, or G12++). If the answer to either is yes it may be a good idea to give the cooling system a good flush, preferably using chemicals to disperse the gel made by incompatible coolants being present in the system. BTW a garage saying they flushed the coolant system does not usually mean much as they often take so little time doing it or don't bother and say they did.

I think water coming out the exhaust is quite normal as it's just condensation, continuous clouds of white smoke and coolant level continuously dropping are something to be concerned about.

Another thing that may contribute to the mayo is if the thermostat is faulty, a common problem on the 1.4mpi as the clips inside break. In this situation the engine may never heat up enough to fully remove any condensation. Does the Temp get up to the middle of the gauge pretty quickly and stay there? Do the blowers get to feel warmer than air temp within 5 minutes? As a fault code has been logged it is probably the temp sender fault (none others for the cooling system come to mind), although I am sure I have seen this code come up when just the thermostat is not at its best (as the computer sees something wrong with the temperature range). http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Skoda-Fabia-1-0-1-4-Mpi-Thermostat-Complete-BRAND-NEW-/390106754590?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5ad42cae1e includes the whole housing, thermostat and temp sender for £30.

Hi there. Not sure if I'm responding in correct place, but stil - here goes.

Thanks for your suggestions regarding my NOT head gasket problem. Briefly: I used the car for work last night (Sun) - watched the temp gauge carefully. It never moved at all from the 'zero' position - even after 50 mins driving. No sign of temp warning light though. Drove home from work this morning - again nothing from temp gauge, and then after about 15 miles, the Engine Management light came back on, as it did last week.

I also noticed that the heater, even when on full blast, wasn't that warm. (Although it was freezing outside, I suppose) Also, the car seemed to use more petrol than normal.

I've just checked the coolant level,and although it may be a fraction lower than max (which the garage topped it up to) it seems fine. I opened the bonnet as soon as I got home, and the engine didn't seem to be overheated at all.

No sign of 'mayo' now in the coolant - but oil cap is once again coated with the stuff! It does seem that, as suggested, the thermostat may be the problem. Unfortunately though - I work nights, so I desperately need the car! (Including tonight, I'm afraid) Is it safe to continue running the car this week with the Engine Management light still on, until I can try & get it fixed over the weekend?

Also - I'm thinking of asking my 'tinkering neighbour' to help, as he takes his VW & Audi to bits often - But is replacing a thermostat a big job? If so, I'd better ask the garage - again.

Thanks once again for your help & suggestions.

Sharon

Replacing the thermostat is a VERY easy job on the 1.4 MPi - just drain off a bit of coolant (probably the hardest part of the entire job, but you could just try to catch what spills out) unclip the hoses, take off the part of the housing that the 'stat clips into, replace the O-ring, screw in the new part of the housing (not too tight, mind), re-connect the hoses and top the coolant back up. Should only take your neighbour half an hour, but TBH considering the state of the coolant, I'd be inclined to get it drained completely, flushed thorough, and replaced with new stuff. This won't take much longer, either, and it will mean you'll know if the mayo in the tank is as a result of a former owner's mistake or the sign of something ongoing...

Hope you're sorted soon!

PS:

If the mayo comes back, it may be worth looking into the things suggested here:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=14406&v=t&m=146263

...when you get the opportunity.

also have a look at ur breather filter? im not sure of the 1.4 set up but i had a similar issue on an old clio of mine, mayo under the oil cap. My problem was traced back to the air box where the breather pipe from rocker cover goes into, there was a small square of foam inside there it was so dirty the engine couldnt breathe, so on cold mornings etc the engine builds condensation inside it and as the oil cap is the highest point normally it collects there.

As regards the coolant, pressure testing may be ok but not fool proof, if they have tested the cylinder pressures and there ok means nothing, the gasket could still be seaping water between any of the galleries and contaminating the oil and vice versa.

The 1.4 mpi (8v) just vents the rocker cover to the throttle body with a pipe, nothing complicated there at all.

50 mins driving with no change in temperature is pretty much guaranteed either temp sender/thermostat faulty or both. As mentioned it is quite an easy job, but probably intimidating for someone who has never tinkered under a bonnet before. If you can imagine the engine being that cold all that time it probably never heats up enough to boil any condensation left in the oil. It will use extra fuel all the time it registers the engine being cold too so changing the thermostat will no doubt see a reduced petrol bill.

If you get a thermostat off ebay I am sure your neighbour would be happy to do it for less than a garage would charge

Edited 29 November, 201015 yr by anewman