How's 220bhp feel compared to 180bhp?

[xa0sx]

Silly question really but is 40bhp worth the £1,500 it's gunna cost (presuming I don't need a new clutch or a Forge FMIC which would take it up to £3,300)?

Did you feel a big difference from your remapped Fabia to your hybrid?

Tell me your views and thoughts.

PS. I'm doing it regardless, I'm just curious and this forum is dead so we need more discussions.

[wja96]

£3300 for 40bhp is patently not good value for money. I can't see you getting 200bhp+ reliably without an FMIC or a new clutch, so it's almost certianly going to be the higher number, but once you've spent that much it seems daft to stop at 220bhp when 250bhp is available. And don't forget the LSD or you'll never be able to steer it.

But if you want to blow enormous amounts of money on a car then who is anyone to stop you? Certainly not me. By a very quick count up I reckon you've probably spent about £8K already so say your final bill comes to about £12K for a 250bhp car. That's a lot of money for an Eastern European shopping trolley with about as much power as a remapped BMW 123d. Heck, you could had Tech1e's Bocanegra for not far off that.

The forum is dead because no-one is doing anything new anymore. Many of the original tuners have moved on to bigger and faster things and the two most boring topics in the world are "My turbo is dead - did my remap contribute?" and "Look at the picture of my dyno printout", which unless it's north of 275bhp isn't that special anymore. Everything else seems to be related to winter tyres, leaky doors or flat batteries, which are critical to the OP, but have been covered endlessly if you've been on here for anything over 20 minutes.

Edited 6 December, 2010 by wja96

[devonutopia]

More power is always going to cost more - you get less returns per £ spent the more you go. I can only say when I did my mongrelling I went from 150hp PD100 to 3 months later having a 220bhp PD130, and the difference was proper clear. I never felt what 180hp was like though in the meantime. Just 150 straight to 220.

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

See i`v seen it as good value. £4k for the car, £300 clutch (used), £1000 turbo, £480 FMIC so to get the power £1780. Im guessing most people are already mapped so get it tweeked for the new bits after. Obviously you could do with other bits needing doing, so £250 suspension upgrade, and 312`s were £170.

So in total, £2200ish, plus £4000 for the car. I left the labour out, as it depends who you use, the more you do yourself the cheaper. I dont see much about for £6 grand that takes my fancy tbh. The thing to remember is that these are small "warm hatches". Dont buy it for £xxxx then spend 5x that making it faster, as mr wja96 has said, you`ll be able to get much better cars for the money. However, if your happy to budget things, and not get the best of everything (while still not scrimping in the important bits!) then you can build a quick, underestimated car for not a massive amount of cash. It might not be new, or have 300bhp, but it`ll put a grin on your face. I`d say its worth it, but then its personal opinion

Matt

[Dougie S]

£3300 for 40bhp is patently not good value for money. I can't see you getting 200bhp+ reliably without an FMIC or a new clutch, so it's almost certianly going to be the higher number, but once you've spent that much it seems daft to stop at 220bhp when 250bhp is available. And don't forget the LSD or you'll never be able to steer it.

But if you want to blow enormous amounts of money on a car then who is anyone to stop you? Certainly not me. By a very quick count up I reckon you've probably spent about £8K already so say your final bill comes to about £12K for a 250bhp car. That's a lot of money for an Eastern European shopping trolley with about as much power as a remapped BMW 123d. Heck, you could had Tech1e's Bocanegra for not far off that.

The forum is dead because no-one is doing anything new anymore. Many of the original tuners have moved on to bigger and faster things and the two most boring topics in the world are "My turbo is dead - did my remap contribute?" and "Look at the picture of my dyno printout", which unless it's north of 275bhp isn't that special anymore. Everything else seems to be related to winter tyres, leaky doors or flat batteries, which are critical to the OP, but have been covered endlessly if you've been on here for anything over 20 minutes.

Many chuckles from me...

Though in fairness the whole thing is relative to how happy it makes you. How many decked polo 6ns with more than 5k thrown at them do you see on E38? Is it good value? Probably not but hey, it made the guy happy. I'm having a similar dilemma because I'm pretty tight. I have everything there already to get away with plugging in a hybrid lump and getting a remap but do I really need that extra power? Extra insurance? Not sure... I figure that as I'm in no rush I'll hold on til I find a hybrid turbo for a price that's too good to refuse and focus on the handling and enjoyabilityfor the moment. I feel that a Mk1 Caddy project will be on the cards as soon as I can get a garage. That's something I could live with throwinbg money at a its a dream.

[andypandypoos]

I've gone from standard to mapped to hybrid in my PD160 Ibiza and the difference is noticeable, the hybrid feels a lot stronger mid to top end. I already had the clutch and SMF etc and the PD160 comes with 312's and a FMIC as standard so going hybrid when my turbo needed replacing was a no-brainer

[TrevorB33]

on previous octy vrs ive gone from standard 180 to mapped plus bits around 220 and its a hell of a difference, on the petrol its as if all the gears shift down a notch as in, 3rd feels how second used to etc, i imagine its gotta feel the same as going from a standard furby vrs to a mapped one again lol

[Craig Lovelock]

Im in the same situation, just deciding what turbo to use...

Unit18 have explained that with a hybrid 130 ide be seeing 190 - 200. But with a 150 it would be 200 - 260 (with supporting mods)

The price difference is about £500...

Im more swaying towards just having a hybrid 130 and having a very fast spool.

[scottk18]

cant see the point, a remap is as far as i would go due to the handling of the vrs,

cant see the point in spending that amount of cash , thats why i got a focus st as a second car remapped it to 275bhp(ish),

if a want more than 275bhp i will sell the st and get something else and remap it like a evo, another scooby or a skyline ,

really want to save for a gtr !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :'(

you get my idea

NOT SLATING THE FABIA AT ALL I THINK ITS AN ACE CAR !!!

Edited 6 December, 2010 by scottk18

[brett_j]

Admittedly i have a completely standard fabia vrs and that makes me smile enough as it is, i know if i start upgrading il enjoy it more but i know that unless you upgrade the right bits at the right times, wear and tear on certain parts can be a bit quicker than hoped (and plus im always broke, so thats a good starting point ). Which, boring to say because i enjoy the idea of tuning cars, if i wanted a faster car, i would just go and buy a car with more power as standard because thats how it was built to start with

Just my 2p though

[Craig Lovelock]

cant see the point, a remap is as far as i would go due to the handling of the vrs,

cant see the point in spending that amount of cash , thats why i got a focus st as a second car remapped it to 275bhp(ish),

if a want more than 275bhp i will sell the st and get something else and remap it like a evo, another scooby or a skyline ,

really want to save for a gtr !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :'(

you get my idea

NOT SLATING THE FABIA AT ALL I THINK ITS AN ACE CAR !!!

I see where your coming from

However, i personally need a new turbo since my seals have gone causing me to lose loads of oil!

Im looking at £500 - 600 ish for a turbo alone in which case i might aswell opt for the hybrid and a remap at the same time

[scottk18]

I see where your coming from

However, i personally need a new turbo since my seals have gone causing me to lose loads of oil!

Im looking at £500 - 600 ish for a turbo alone in which case i might aswell opt for the hybrid and a remap at the same time

if you have the cash and are getting a hybrid,DO IT , but you will need the uprated smf and clutch and a FMIC too the heat soak will make the car drive awful with that power

[Craig Lovelock]

if you have the cash and are getting a hybrid,DO IT , but you will need the uprated smf and clutch and a FMIC too the heat soak will make the car drive awful with that power

Getting it limited to a stage 1 map. So 180 odd bhp and under 300 torque. Will go back once i have fmic etc.

[scottk18]

Getting it limited to a stage 1 map. So 180 odd bhp and under 300 torque. Will go back once i have fmic etc.

yeah sounds good to me,

i only have a remap to 170-175 depending on what they told the last owner, and a miltek only have a slight heat soak at hight speeds on the motorway apart from that its ace !

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

cant see the point, a remap is as far as i would go due to the handling of the vrs,

cant see the point in spending that amount of cash , thats why i got a focus st as a second car remapped it to 275bhp(ish),

if a want more than 275bhp i will sell the st and get something else and remap it like a evo, another scooby or a skyline ,

really want to save for a gtr !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :'(

you get my idea

NOT SLATING THE FABIA AT ALL I THINK ITS AN ACE CAR !!!

Personal choice isnt it? As i outlined above, my car cost much less than an st to build, and more importantly to insure and run. Not slating the ST, nice car and that, but it`ll cost me a fortune to drive to work everyday in. Plus there is no element of surprise as there is in the fabia, which is my fav bit

if you have the cash and are getting a hybrid,DO IT , but you will need the uprated smf and clutch and a FMIC too the heat soak will make the car drive awful with that power

SMF isnt needed for a hybrid.

Matt

[scottk18]

Personal choice isnt it? As i outlined above, my car cost much less than an st to build, and more importantly to insure and run. Not slating the ST, nice car and that, but it`ll cost me a fortune to drive to work everyday in. Plus there is no element of surprise as there is in the fabia, which is my fav bit

SMF isnt needed for a hybrid.

Matt

i thought you would need SMF for 220bhp ?

as for your comments on the st, Thats why i use it as a second car it would cost me a fortune too the girlfriend uses it more than me

Edited 6 December, 2010 by scottk18

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

i thought you would need SMF for 220bhp ?

as for your comments on the st, Thats why i use it as a second car it would cost me a fortune too the girlfriend uses it more than me

To take it much further than 220/230bhp you maybe need one, along with a few other bits, but then its all down to how you drive I guess. At that point I`d guess you be wanting to launch it up the pod a few times. The flywheel is one of them things tho that while adding nothing power wise, makes a big difference to how the car drives. Gives it the "race car" feel, i really like it.

As for the ST, sounds like me, we have a fiesta ST which my mrs uses cos she can make the fuel last more a couple of days lol

matt

[scottk18]

To take it much further than 220/230bhp you maybe need one, along with a few other bits, but then its all down to how you drive I guess. At that point I`d guess you be wanting to launch it up the pod a few times. The flywheel is one of them things tho that while adding nothing power wise, makes a big difference to how the car drives. Gives it the "race car" feel, i really like it.

As for the ST, sounds like me, we have a fiesta ST which my mrs uses cos she can make the fuel last more a couple of days lol

matt

yeah haha, the focus st is really bad on fuel when i drive it, i just love the pull and the sound of it i think that is the problem !! does about 20mpg when i drive and would cost me £12 a day to get to work ,

the mrs works 3 days a week, about a 28mile round trip and she can get 27mpg out of it !! :S

[ItsOnlyMe_vRS]

I have followed the more expensive route of Remap > Hybrid KKK > Hybrid PD150 to the new Stage 3 turbo from Jabba.

Did i notice the difference. Short answer yes, throughout all of the upgrades but its cost me a not so small fortune. If your going for 220 you'll need LSD, SMF and FMIC so it doesnt come cheap. I did find that with the Hybrid PD 150 with the 312 disks were fine, but upgraded to brembos on a 323 with the stage 3.

The biggest difference from 180 to 220 is the fact you dont run out of puff at the top end. I was hitting 200 at the rev limiter pull went on forever. still get around 49 MPG, so only lost a little there even with the spates of driving the car like it was stolen...

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

If your going for 220 you'll need LSD, SMF and FMIC so it doesnt come cheap. I did find that with the Hybrid PD 150 with the 312 disks were fine, but upgraded to brembos on a 323 with the stage 3.

You DO NOT NEED a LSD or SMF for 220bhp!

[mark.r.cullen]

SMF isn't required, however, getting the uprated clutch fitted with a new DMF would still cost me a good £1k, which I think is the main point...?

[ItsOnlyMe_vRS]

You DO NOT NEED a LSD or SMF for 220bhp!

Nor big breaks until you need to stop!

Edited 7 December, 2010 by ItsOnlyMe_vRS

[Craig Lovelock]

Nor big breaks until you need to stop!

Stopping? Nahhhhh

Think about it when it happens

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

Nor big breaks until you need to stop!

The point I'm making is to run a hybrid there isn't a need for a SMF. Plenty rather not have one due to noise. A updated clutch and standard flywheel are perfectly up to the job. I'm not slating it, or the LSD, because both I'm hoping to fit this year. But neither are needed to run 220bhp. As for the brakes, they are needed.

Matt

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

SMF isn't required, however, getting the uprated clutch fitted with a new DMF would still cost me a good £1k, which I think is the main point...?

Iv fitted a updated clutch (£650ish new I think) to my DMF, no issues.

Matt