Superb Tiiming Belt Change

[dekevrs]

I see the service book says I should change the timing belt on my 07 2.0 Tdi Superb after 4 years. The car will have done only 20,000. It will be out of warranty. I have never had to change a timing belt with so little miles. What ya reckon? I appreciate the risks may be high, but really after 20,000 miles? £350 job!

[Cown]

It is not only the mile count that matters, but the 4 years of age with different weather conditions tear up the belt. I would strongly recommend a change.

[dekevrs]

Cool and thanks. £350 down next year, but better than thousands if it snapped.

[rotodiesel]

Waste of time. The 4 year rule is a VAG UK generated scam. All of the printed documentation supplied with the vehicle gives a 60 or 80k mile change interval with no time limitation - nowhere else other than in the UK is a 4 year change recommended.

I changed all of the belts, cambelt idlers and water pump on my AWX Superb after 5 years and all of the bits I took off were in perfect condition. I will ignore the time rule (Ford belts will run to 10 years and neither Ford nor VAG manufacture belts) and change the drive belts every 60k miles from now on. I'm sure these components would run for 100k miles.

It's probably more important to get rid of the crappy VAG water pump which has a self-destruct plastic impeller and fit a pattern one with a metal impeller.

If I had a 2.0PD Superb I'd forget about the cambelt and worry about the oil pump drive....

rotodiesel.

[dekevrs]

Waste of time. The 4 year rule is a VAG UK generated scam. All of the printed documentation supplied with the vehicle gives a 60 or 80k mile change interval with no time limitation - nowhere else other than in the UK is a 4 year change recommended.

I changed all of the belts, cambelt idlers and water pump on my AWX Superb after 5 years and all of the bits I took off were in perfect condition. I will ignore the time rule (Ford belts will run to 10 years and neither Ford nor VAG manufacture belts) and change the drive belts every 60k miles from now on. I'm sure these components would run for 100k miles.

It's probably more important to get rid of the crappy VAG water pump which has a self-destruct plastic impeller and fit a pattern one with a metal impeller.

If I had a 2.0PD Superb I'd forget about the cambelt and worry about the oil pump drive....

rotodiesel.

Thanks for the information. I have picked up that the Oil Pump Drive's are rubbish. Any advice on how I prevent the costly issue?

[rotodiesel]

Sell it.

rotodiesel.

[skodanut]

Way i see it, £350 quid for a new timing belt isbetter than paying an arm and a leg for a new engine, and if you like the car that you have now, then the choice is yours, as for the oil pump, well its very well documented and prices vary from severity of engine damage when it happens....personally i would invest in a decent warranty, thats the price i'm paying for not having one myself due to the low miles our car has. But as your car has done even lower miles than our car, then a few hundred quid spent on a warranty would make sense...as for the oil pump expenditure i think the part alone is around twice that of replacing the timing belt plus fitting, and as roto mentions its a poorly designed chinese finger costing around £12-15 the damage it could cause doesnt bear thinking about. Some owners have got off lightly...i just hope i'm one of them.

[dekevrs]

I've had my car for 6 months from 8,000 miles. It is sitting at 14,000. Whenso Oil Punps generally go? Do frequent oil changes help?

I have a chance to trade the lovely Superb for an 07 Octavia VRS on a 2.0 Tdi model. Is there the same issues with this motor, giving it is the same engine? Not sure if I want to in any case.

Do Skoda do warranty on a motor over 4 years old?

Thanks for your input.

[samson1]

Sell it.

rotodiesel.

[samson1]

with respect rotodiesel ,many of us bought these 140s new not knowing there would be any problem with our investment if i exchanged for a new totota it would cost me £10.000.today what weare trying to find out is how many miles might i get and has replacment part been modified yet? so far i have seen no positive ans to this issue , regards .

[ian0x0r]

Im gonnah try and run mine until it blows up tbh. Had belt changed at 56k, now on 85k it shoukd in theory last until 140k. I suspect the rest of the car will fail before I hit that mileage though

[dekevrs]

As you know I don't know a lot about this oil pump issue, hence asking advice like I am. I did however speak to a well trusted Skoda dealer I have been using for years who receive great reviews and rightly so. They do not see a lot of these oil pumps and would recommend keeping the car. They do mention the water ingress and one or two other more minor issues.

Re timing belt change after 4 years. Apprently there has been some failing before 5 years and that is why.

Rotodeisel. All due respect, you have a great knowledge, can you use it and try and help mitigate the risk with us?

Is this oil pump issue with all VAG 2.0tdi, as if it is they are everywhere.

[rotodiesel]

If you design something with a critical detail which is marginal, it's very difficult to predict when it will fail. Some smokers live to be 90. It's still better not to smoke.

You need to get the sentiment out of this issue. Firstly, you are dealing with a known bad design - there are millions of engines out there from other suppliers which don't break their oil pump drives. Secondly, you are dealing with a supplier whom I have found to be completely dishonest and who will neither be upfront about the problem (or any other design problem) or offer any help in rectifying it.

These two factors make a 2.0PD Superb Mk1 not worth owning - why take such a high risk? Trade it in for something of equal value from Toyota.

Timing drive replacement is a nice little earner for the dealers - hence the UK generated scam. I have been testing diesel engines for a long time and in my view, the belt change intervals printed in the service book by the vehicle makers and supplied with the vehicle are reasonable. My findings, having changed all of the timing drive and driven components on my AWX engine support this.

The VAG UK generated "4 year rule" which, on my vehicle was printed on a scrappy bit of paper applies nowhere else in the world as far as I can establish and is, in my opinion a scam. What other vehicle has two differing sets of belt change advice issued with it?

rotodiesel.

[CRC]

If you design something with a critical detail which is marginal, it's very difficult to predict when it will fail. Some smokers live to be 90. It's still better not to smoke.

You need to get the sentiment out of this issue. Firstly, you are dealing with a known bad design - there are millions of engines out there from other suppliers which don't break their oil pump drives. Secondly, you are dealing with a supplier whom I have found to be completely dishonest and who will neither be upfront about the problem (or any other design problem) or offer any help in rectifying it.

These two factors make a 2.0PD Superb Mk1 not worth owning - why take such a high risk? Trade it in for something of equal value from Toyota.

Timing drive replacement is a nice little earner for the dealers - hence the UK generated scam. I have been testing diesel engines for a long time and in my view, the belt change intervals printed in the service book by the vehicle makers and supplied with the vehicle are reasonable. My findings, having changed all of the timing drive and driven components on my AWX engine support this.

The VAG UK generated "4 year rule" which, on my vehicle was printed on a scrappy bit of paper applies nowhere else in the world as far as I can establish and is, in my opinion a scam. What other vehicle has two differing sets of belt change advice issued with it?

rotodiesel.

I totally agree.

Think it through .... my service manual on the V6 TDI states that the timing belt change interval is 80,000 miles. Now, consider how Skoda would have come to this conclusion.

No manufacturer would advise you to change the belt at the point at which it's about to cause problems, they would always advise you to change the belt at a lesser mileage. So let's assume that in testing they noticed that occasionally they had a problem around the 100,000 mile mark, then it makes logical sense to make the change interval about 20% less than that, so you come up with the mileage of 80,000 miles, which seems entirley reasonable. Of course, it could be that they never had any problems, chose the 100,000 mile mark as an arbitrary figure, knocked off 20% and said that we'll go for that.

Or. maybe they looked at the more normal change figure of 60,000 miles for 4 cylinder engines, twigged that the V6 tends to spend much of it's life at low rpm ( between 1200 and 2000 in my case) and calculated that the engine revolves less per mile and did it that way?

The 4 year rule that the dealers harp on about is, as far as I know, applied to every engine in the VW range, so hot hatch screamers and low revving V6 engines are all included. Logic tells you that the revolutions and stresses on a slow revving engine are less than on a small engine that's being revved to the red line every few minutes, and yet the time intervals are the same.

I was chatting about cam belts with a mechanic at a Skoda dealership the other day, and he was actually unaware of the 4 year ruling, but said that in all his time at the garage, he had never known an issue with a single Octavia or Superb cam belt, apart from one V6 Superb that had had the belt fitted incorrectly at manufacture and had broken it after 600 miles. (He got the job of rebuilding the engine, so he's a useful bloke to know). He was, however, aware one of the smaller engines in the Fabia range ( can't recall which one) could cause problems.

My car has done 47,000 miles now and will be 5 years old in April. We had a really good look at the condition of the belt at the last service and it looked pukka. All the writing was visible on the outside of the belt, the teeth were pristine, no cracks, no crazing etc. I'll probably do what Roto did and get the belts changed in April at five years and about 50,000 miles, but the engineer in me expects that everything taken off will be as good as gold.

Of course, I might be wrong ..... you pays your money and you takes your chance ..... it's up to you.

[rotodiesel]

Some of the earlier petrol engines had plastic tensioner rollers made by FAG which were not fit for purpose. I took one out of my son's VW which was virtually falling apart. The Dayco replacement kit included an INA metal tensioner roller.

All of the VAG diesel engine timing drives I have seen use well made metal rollers and tensioners which are entirely fit for the duty stipulated in the service book.

VAG just need to sack the guy who designed the plastic water pump - and a few of their other engineers...

rotodiesel.

[skodanut]

Samson1 more or less summed it up...to part exchange a decent car for another new car and spend say £10k in the process is all very nice if one has got the money. But like all new cars, you put a fair old deposit down and soon as you drive out of the showroom, the car in question looses money...so in my opinion it would make sense to keep the car one bought in the first place.

As for mechanical repairs, some are fortunate to have warranties, some arent, and to part with a car that cost us owners a fair packet, and spend even more money on a new car say £10k for example and loose a bit more when one drives it out of the showroom to me doesnt make sense. Although the superb for example has already lost a fair bit on its overall value, one still has a half decent car that offer's limosine comfort, good looks and reasonably good ecconomy, and to me, it would make sense to actually hang on to the vehicle and be prepared to shell out for repairs that become needed when required.

I agree that the oil pump issue is a pain in the butt, and i would'nt wish the worry of it failing on any superb tdi 140 owners, but it is a fact of life, the problem is there, along with passat owners and seat owners and not forgetting audi owners, so us unfortunate owners just have to pay for repairs.

I must point out i was the owner of a rover 2.6 sd1 years ago, and i suffered cylinder head siezure that stripped the belt and bent 3 valves, and i had no inkling that the engine had a restrictor built into the head and when it became blocked that spelt trouble in the weeks to come. But being younger then, i stripped it all down replaced the valves concerned and renewed the timing belt, and done away with the restrictor, and that car went on for miles and was a joy to own, till some pratt rear ended it at traffic lights !! But even then, all cars have problems, even bmw's and just recently my neighbour's fairly new mercedes...he is out of warranty and never renewed it and he has a seized transmission! I dread to think what that will cost to replace, and tbh i was thinking that what with my probematic car, i said to myself, rather you than me.

[rotodiesel]

If I were unfortunate enough to own a working 2.0PD Mk1 Superb I would trade it in and buy the best alternative I could find with the funds available. Buying a new vehicle - especially a big one with a downmarket badge - is a sheer waste of money.

I don't want to sound wise after the event and as I work in an obscure branch of the motor business and have many contacts, I may possibly be better informed than some. For most people the Internet is your friend and a bit of digging around pays real dividends. Cars are mass produced and design problems are definitely not "one offs". The VAG 2.0PD engine problems have been in the Audi forums for a long time and many people have lost money with this wretched engine.

My other golden rule is not to throw good money after bad. If you've bought a pile of junk, get rid of it and move on with another supplier.

rotodiesel.

[skodanut]

I do agree with you roto...unfortunately my wife and i also have finance attached to this vehicle we own, and the car is presently not running....so to get rid of it in it's present condition is a no go...but if it is possible to get the engine up and running, then i will be looking at moving it on. And if it is working, then we'll be faced with the hard task of finding someone who will actually buy it !!...and if that proves fruitless given that dealers would also know that the car is basically a lemon, then it brings us back to square one...being stuck with a vehicle no one wants...so i might as well keep it and drive it into the ground...and to be honest...i'd rather do that than give it away. At least my wife is very fortunate to have the new superb for her motablity needs, but we can always change the car when the contract expires.

Incidentally roto given your vast experience with engines, what manufacturer offers a reliable vehicle? skoda included?

[rotodiesel]

As a generality, Toyota and Honda make the most reliable vehicles you can buy. Their diesel engine fuel systems are not as good as the best European offerings but I am confident that they will catch up. Some of the latest European diesel fuel systems are not too bright either - try a search on Siemens piezo injectors.

The golden age of the diesel was probably VAG Euro III - namely the 1.9 litre PD engine fitted with solenoid injectors ('03 - '05 approx). It's a rough old beast though.

Japanese cars have other problems for me - tasteless and characterless for instance - but the bottom line is always that a vehicle has to do its job.

I cannot abide dishonest trading and find Toyota's attitude to defects, even when unreasonably pushed by protectionist Americans with a failing local industry, to be far more honest than VAG's.

rotodiesel.

[skodanut]

I did discuss the motability vehicles with her when she had to choose, and she thought the toyota was somewhat like you mentioned...a bit tasteless, as for the honda civic, she thought it was too in your face like...especially the instruments and digital display, which i thought looked rather cool, plus accesability,but it was her choice, and given the time limit waiting for the car to be ordered and delivered at the time, including ford vehicles, it was then that the salesman from our local dealer did a search for us and came up wit the new superb greenline delivered, ready to drive in 2 weeks, and it was the quick turnaround and helpfulness from the salesman that pursuaded my wife to go for the superb.

Of course she knew it was a big car, but it was ideal for the intended use, myself being a named driver for her, and the car's ability to swallow large loads and wheelchair with ease was the deciding factor. So far the car has had no problems given the 4k miles on the clock, and fuel consumption is basically very different from our old mk1 superb. Though personally i do think the older superb is tuned more primarily for comfort, especially seats and suspension, but we cant knock our old superb, even though it has had mechanical trouble, to us it is a part of the family ( he's lost the plot ) and like i mentioned earlier in a thread, it is too good to be scrapped and too good to be sold on cheap, so we might as well keep it and hand back the superb when the motabilty contract expires, and depending how the old mk1 is doing at the time, then look at our options then. It will still probably be low miles and in good nick !!