Strange quote from dealer - can anyone explain?

[Stoofa]

As I've posted in a few threads I'm possibly looking to buy a new Octy vRS.

I specced up the car I wanted on the Skoda website and then simply took 20% of the final price.

I got a figure of £18,288

The first dealer I spoke to came back with a quote of £18,366.

This is quiter possible - I may have missed something small, a rounding issue etc.

I then decided to speak to my local dealer who came up with the pricing below.

At the total cost came to nearly £1000 more I asked them to break down the pricing.

Again they came back with the same figure:

(sorry for external link - couldn't format it the way I wanted to here )

Now looking at the "VAT listed in Brochure" I've worked that out to be around 16.25% and certainly not 20%.

Do you think the dealer is looking at the wrong prices?

Do you think the dealer is pulling a "fast one" and hoping I wouldn't notice?

Obviously if they aren't going to come back with the same price then that is them out of the running straight away.

However this annoys me as the deal is 20% and based on the above pricing - how many other customers have been overcharged?

[Guest]

Your maths is faulty.

If VAT exclusive price is £20,000, VAT is 20% * £20,000 = £4,000, total price VAT inclusive £24,000.

You can't just reduce the VAT inclusive price by 20% to get back to a VAT exclusive price as this gives £24,000 - 20%(£4,800) = £19,200.

You have to divide by 120 and then multiply by 100 to get back to VAT exclusive. i.e. £24,000 / 120 = £200 * 100 = £20,000.

[Grizzle]

Just order your car from Drivethedeal.com

[Stoofa]

I'm not the worlds greatest with math's I'll be honest - but I'm not quite sure what you are saying, sorry.

OK, absolute basics

I spec up a new car with a total price, inc VAT of £22,860

I take 20% off this price - £4572

Giving me a final price of £18,288

Are you telling me that the maths here is wrong?

In the breakdown situation I've done exactly the same:

Car - Price - minus 20% - price I pay

Metallic Paint - Price - minus 20% - price I pay

etc

My math's is wrong on this front too?

[TallGuy]

I'm not the worlds greatest with math's I'll be honest - but I'm not quite sure what you are saying, sorry.

OK, absolute basics

I spec up a new car with a total price, inc VAT of £22,860

I take 20% off this price - £4572

Giving me a final price of £18,288

Are you telling me that the maths here is wrong?

In the breakdown situation I've done exactly the same:

Car - Price - minus 20% - price I pay

Metallic Paint - Price - minus 20% - price I pay

etc

My math's is wrong on this front too?

(

Yes. If for instance, I pay 120 UKP including 20% VAT, I have paid 100 UKP without VAT. 100 UKP is 83.33 % of 120, therefore to calculate the VAT reduced price I need to take off 16.66% off of the including VAT price. In other words, you have to multiply by 5/6 (100%/120%) to get to the right price.

The price you should expect to pay is £19050 (0.83333 * 22860).

Hope that makes sense.

Edited 10 February, 2011 by TallGuy

[wmscud]

When I ordered my Vrs I thought you just knock the vat off the total price,but I think they took the VED off and the registration fee first,then the vat off whats left.Thats what I gathered at the time as I did what you did originally.Remember prices are OTR prices.

[Mison]

The price, excluding VAT is £19,050. Add VAT at 20% = £3,810. Therefore total price including VAT is £22,860. Simples!!

[lfc958]

The price for mine was worked out as follows:-

Basic price of car from brochure -17.5% = New basic price

Each option was basic price from brochure-17.5% = New basic price

All these new values were added together to give the total basic price of the car , then VAT @ 17.5% was added to give OTR. ( we cant get away with not paying VAT)

This looks very much like what has been quoted for you, I suspect that VAT in the brochure is @ the new 20% VAT rate

Edited 10 February, 2011 by lfc958

[wmscud]

These prices are out of last years brochure.All prices minus 17.5% at the time.

This price is for a Vrs cr 170bhp diesel dpf.

OTR £20,195

RRP £19515 so this the price you start with.Without vat = £16608.51

Then any option E.G Leather seats £820 but no vat = £697.87,so all you need to do is add them all together.

I dont think you can get away with VED and otr charges.

the otr was £680

Edited 11 February, 2011 by wmscud

[wmscud]

Thanks lfc958 thats what I was trying to say

[speedy_gonzales]

Stoofa, to cost this properly you need the latest RRP List Brochure(04/01/11) or go online and locate the latest pricing for the car and/or extras.

Find the car you are after, locate the 'Recommended OTR' price and take away the 'RRP', the sum left is the delivery, VED, registration. Add this to the 'Recommended Basic' price and this is the cost of the car without VAT.

For extras, just add the basic price or multiply the RRP by 0.833

Edited 10 February, 2011 by speedy_gonzales

[Stoofa]

The price for mine was worked out as follows:-

Basic price of car from brochure -17.5% = New basic price

Each option was basic price from brochure-17.5% = New basic price

All these new values were added together to give the total basic price of the car , then VAT @ 17.5% was added to give OTR. ( we cant get away with not paying VAT)

This looks very much like what has been quoted for you, I suspect that VAT in the brochure is @ the new 20% VAT rate

So to get the price now I could do the same but doing -20% at each step.

I've just this second gone online and specced up the cost of the car plus options.

It is listed on the website as:

£22,860 - Total Price

£22,045 - RRP

So to get the final price I need to do the following:

22860-22045=815

22045-20%=17636

17636+815=18451

This is in all honesty doing my head in!

OK, if somebody has 5 minutes, please can you tell me what you would expect to pay for the following:

(These prices are the prices directly from the Skoda website)

Car - £20,145

Paint - £440

Option1 - £300

Option2 - £130

Option3 - £170

Option4 - £750

Option5 - £850

Option6 - £75

Thanks.

[speedy_gonzales]

Stoofa, it's not as simple as taking 20% off the OTR price.

For your car I'd quote

Car £16923.33

Paint £366.67

Option 1 £250

Option 2 £108.33

Option 3 £141.67

Option 4 £625

Option 5 £708.33

Option 6 £62.50

TOTAL=19185.83

I'd suggest you give any finance figures a thorough going over as well, by your own admission you claims the maths is doing your head in, I'm normally not too bad but I got a finance quote from a dealer once and he managed to sneak an extra £125 into the quote under 'interest and other charges', even though all interest and applicable charges were already quoted for! Sneeky B!

[peanut18]

I think people are making this far harder than it actually is. If you have a VAT EXCLUSIVE price of £100 you would multiply by 1.2 to add the VAT = £100 x 1.2 = £120. So to get back to the VAT EXCLUSIVE price you simply divide by 1.2 (the opposite of multiplying by 1.2).

Assuming your prices quoted above are inclusive of VAT at 20% then the price you pay is:

Car - £20,145/1.2 = £16,788

Paint - £440/1.2 = £367

Option1 - £300/1.2 = £250

Option2 - £130/1.2 = £108

Option3 - £170/1.2 = £142

Option4 - £750/1.2 = £625

Option5 - £850/1.2 = £708

Option6 - £75/1.2 = £63

Theses are obvioulsly rounded to the nearest whole pound giving a grand total of £19,050 with the discount. And just to check - £19,050 x 1.2 = £22,860.

Sorted

[ramonford]

These prices are out of last years brochure.All prices minus 17.5% at the time.

This price is for a Vrs cr 170bhp diesel dpf.

OTR £20,195

RRP £19515 so this the price you start with.Without vat = £16099.87

Then any option E.G Leather seats £820 but no vat = £697.87,so all you need to do is add them all together.

I dont think you can get away with VED and otr charges.

Can some one please explain to me how this can possibly be right.

These figures are all at the old VAT rate of 17.5%

So quote "RRP £19515 so this the price you start with. Without vat = £16099.87 "

Therefore, if I take the quoted pre Vat figure of £16099.87 and add back the 17.5% VAT (£2817.48) this should bring me back to the

original RRP of £19515.00 which it clearly does NOT. £16099.87 + £2817.48 + £18917.35

Surely the pre VAT figure at 17.5% would have been £19515.00 / 1.175 = £16608.51

Totally confused.com

[speedy_gonzales]

I think people are making this far harder than it actually is. If you have a VAT EXCLUSIVE price of £100 you would multiply by 1.2 to add the VAT = £100 x 1.2 = £120. So to get back to the VAT EXCLUSIVE price you simply divide by 1.2 (the opposite of multiplying by 1.2).

Assuming your prices quoted above are inclusive of VAT at 20% then the price you pay is:

Car - £20,145/1.2 = £16,788

Not as straightforward as that for the car, if the OTR price is £20145, then this breaks down to a price for the car of;

Car=£16108.33

Vat=£3221.67

OTR=£815(delivery/VED/Registration Fee

=£20145, ergo, a vat free price, OTR is 16108.33+815=£16923.33.

As for working out the other prices, then yes, dividing the RRP price by 1.2 is the same as my suggestion of multiplying by 0.833.

[speedy_gonzales]

Can some one please explain to me how this can possibly be right.

These figures are all at the old VAT rate of 17.5%

So quote "RRP £19515 so this the price you start with. Without vat = £16099.87 "

Therefore, if I take the quoted pre Vat figure of £16099.87 and add back the 17.5% VAT (£2817.48) this should bring me back to the

original RRP of £19515.00 which it clearly does NOT. £16099.87 + £2817.48 + £18917.35

Surely the pre VAT figure at 17.5% would have been £19515.00 / 1.175 = £16608.51

Totally confused.com

The figures aren't correct(as I'm sure you noticed).

An OTR price of a car is made up of the basic price of the car + VAT(at the applicable rate) + an OTR price(VED/registration/delivery)

To work out vat free prices you MUST take away the OTR price (around £815) before taking away VAT at the applicable rates then you add back on the OTR rate.

I think this is where some folk are getting confused when trying to get figures retrospectively?!?

Edited 10 February, 2011 by speedy_gonzales

[Stoofa]

I will admit this has totally done my head in

What I thought was a simply sum of:

Total price of car - 20% appears not to be the case!

Anyway,

I've had a quote from a dealership of £18,663 for the car specced as follows:

vRS Petrol Hatch

Metallic Paint

Rear Parking Sensors

Maxi-Dot

Auto Dimming Mirror

Xenon Headlights

Leather Upholstery

Space-Saver Spare Wheel

Not quite the price I worked out, but only £500 more.

Now of course I've got to try and get a good price for my car - and that is now proving to be the difficult bit.

[speedy_gonzales]

I will admit this has totally done my head in

What I thought was a simply sum of:

Total price of car - 20% appears not to be the case!

Anyway,

I've had a quote from a dealership of £18,663 for the car specced as follows:

<snip>

Not quite the price I worked out, but only £500 more.

Now of course I've got to try and get a good price for my car - and that is now proving to be the difficult bit.

Well going by that quote I'd say you're already saving £500 as I work it out to be £19186. Perhaps the dealer has given you an attractive price to open the barter process or perhaps 1 or 2 of the options come as a cheaper bundle?!?

Edited 10 February, 2011 by speedy_gonzales

[Lou_O]

Well going by that quote I'd say you're already saving £500 as I work it out to be £19186. Perhaps the dealer has given you an attractive price to open the barter process or perhaps 1 or 2 of the options come as a cheaper bundle?!?

It beats the DTD price too which is a good place to be starting from.

[Stoofa]

Well going by that quote I'd say you're already saving £500 as I work it out to be £19186. Perhaps the dealer has given you an attractive price to open the barter process or perhaps 1 or 2 of the options come as a cheaper bundle?!?

That's what I was thinking.

I initially thought "Hay, it's £300 more than I made it!".

But now, with the improved maths I can see it is actually already a saving.

My December 2006 (56) vRS unfortunately is not proving to be so popular.

It's pre "upgrade pack" - so 17" wheels, no jumbo, no rear electric windows.

Cruise Control, Maxidot & Columbus retro-fitted.

64k miles, FSH including cambelt & waterpump at £61k miles.

Honestly really good condition throughout.

Initial quotes are £5500 - £6000 as a trade-in.

Oh I don't know, I was really hoping it was worth £7000 but alas no.

I know I could go the "private sale" route - but I need the money from the car to buy the new one.

I'll have to see if the dealership is willing to negotiate

[Mison]

I will admit this has totally done my head in

What I thought was a simply sum of:

Total price of car - 20% appears not to be the case!

You add the 20% VAT on to ex VAT price. You do not take 20% off the VAT inclusive price as this does not work

[matty-m]

I have managed to get a cancelled order petrol Octavia vrs from my dealer for delivery in march on the vat free promotion also but I was under the impression that the reg fee , first year road tax and delivery charge were not part of the vat free offer can any forum member clarify this at all as I haven't any paper work as yet thanks in advance

[tisca]

You have to take the Basic recommended price which is £16,108.33 from the latest website download brochure excluding the VAT which is the 20% so called discount.Then add your options excluding vat as per your Link,plus OTR costs £425.00 plus first registration fee £55.00 plus first year road tax of £250.00. Total £19,100.83.....The offer of £18,366.00 is very good. Hope this simplfies it for you.

PS: THE VAT CONTENT CALCULATION is x 1 then divide by 6

pps: it looks as if OTR costs have gone up from £425 to £510. I quoted my charge from Dec 2010 of £425.

Edited 10 February, 2011 by tisca

[countryboy]

Trouble is the way you are doing it, you are taking 20% off the higher VAT inclusive price. Now 20 % of that is going to be a larger number than that off the basic price before VAT. i.e. VAT inclusive price = £100

-20% VAT = £80 (-£20)VAT exclusive price

However working from the other way:- VAT exclusive price = £80 (from above)

+20% VAT = £16 (10%=£8 x 2 = £16)

VAT inclusive price = £96

So can you see by doing things a different way you have a difference in the figures, in this case 4%. I should think this is about the %age difference between your figures and the dealers.

There is a simpler way of doing this, I did when I was pricing up a Fabia vRS.

On the brochure, paper or online there will be the costs before as well as after VAT. Add up the costs of the car and options from the before VAT column, add the delivery and registration fee to that and hey presto you should have your final figure on what the car will cost with the VAT taken off, which should be near as damn it the same as the figure the dealer is quoting to you.

Ian