I see there are many threads on long delivery times for Octavias with the diesel engine. For high mileage and company car users the numbers certainly add up in favour of the diesel. But not everybody is in that category. I stumbled across this engine comment on "Honest John". Although it was in response to a Yeti question it was entirely about engine choice and so is relevant here. The question was on the lines of "6 month wait for a diesel, 3 month wait for a petrol - but worried about running costs". Here is the reply:

"The 1.8TSI 160 4WD is by far the best Yeti and by far the most fun to drive. Only 30mpg, but no diesel particualte filter problems, no dual mass flywheel problems, no timing belts to replace every four years, no EGR problems, and a water cooled turbo so that is more reliable as well."

Seems a lot of plus points for the petrol! Having had the pleasure of a dual mass flywheel replacement on my previous diesel car, I have some sympathy with his assessment.

I tend to agree. One of the attractions of Diesel over petrol used to be that they were simpler and more reliable, with no electrics to go wrong etc.

Those days are long gone. In the quest to get the same performance as petrol, and reduce emissions, Diesel engines have become very complex with a lot of additonal high-cost parts. I would want significant annual savings over a petrol to induce me to purchase one (eg 20k miles or more per annum).

Lots of people (including HJ) came to this conclusion a long time ago.

As I see it, diesel engines are fine, its just all the ancillary parts that go wrong.

A lot of those can be replaced/repaired far cheaper than the main dealer route, once your warranty is over

Edited 13 February, 201115 yr by Monkeyboyo

I've not had a single problem with my diesel in two years but generally find it a bit dull and was a bit slow before remap. Each to his own, but I reckon with the new more fuel efficient TSi engines, you've got to be doing serious mileage to justify diesel on economic grounds. I don't even get decent mpg on mine, circa 35mpg over the last 3k, usually get circa 40mpg on a run though.

It's horses for courses when it comes to petrol v diesel.

I drive a lot of miles, so the Octavia diesel with variable servicing and 50+ mpg is the one for me. The Wife does about 4000 miles a year so the 1.2 Fabia with an annual service and around 40 mpg is fine.

This is why I am going back to petrol, having a modern diesel outside of warranty these days is like playing financial russian roulette. Also everyone thinks 'It will never happen to me' for the mileage I am doing it simply isnt worth it these days. I think if you have a diesel and tend to drive it middle to high mileage then these engines like it better, low to middle mileage and you are storing up trouble.

Diesels only make sense, when comparing those cars made in the last few years ie turbo charged direct injection engines, when Diesel fuel is cheaper than petrol which is the case in most European countries but no in the UK.

The average calculation shows you have to drive about 60K to 100K miles to break even and by then many of us want to change the car as VAG cars still only have 60K warranties.

Currently TSI is both the financial and fun choice which is having your cake and eating it. Saying that I am going to have a look at a Monte Carlo Fabia 1.6D which I think, reading the website, they are doing the no VAT deal but I may be reading it wrong but I will have to wait and register in Sept11 due to engine shortages.

Edited 13 February, 201115 yr by lol

Yes, after only owning diesel cars since 1992 when I bought my Peugeot 309 turbo diesel, I too am now thinking along the lines that the extra cost and complexity of diesel engines nowadays, coupled with the advances in turbo petrol technology with the better economy and torque they give, that the next car I buy well may be a 1.8 TSI DSG Octavia. I shall probably wait until Octavia MkIII comes out and see what happens, should be quite a few ex-demo MkII FL cars about then.

Ian

For me, it has to be diesel, i do around 35k a year, carry alot of kit around and still manage around 48mpg average, not bad as i have a heavy right foot, couldn't imagine getting close with a petrol engined car, so i will stick with my 2.0tdi, and after driving a dsg equiped car the other day, my next one will be a diesel dsg for sure.

I would prefer a petrol vRS, but I do on average 30,000 miles a year, so if I did I'd be broke!

It seems (IMHO) that diesels are now tweaked to within an inch of their lives to get through the various Euro emissions laws.

Surely having a slightly less 'clean' but more reliable and long lasting diesel would be more environmentally friendly in the long run?

Maybe not politically comfortable? I can't see the Gov saying "don't buy new cars, run your old one for longer, making new cars takes too much energy".

How many of the current high tech diesels are going to last 300k like many of the older dirty dervs?

On the face of it TSi petrol engines are similar in complexity to most diesels and have most of the same potential problems except for DPF, so who knows whether or not they will be reliable long term. Same as most diesels the 1.8TSi has a turbo, high pressure direct injection, EGR and a DMF (though why they saw the need I don't know). Sure the injection system isn't as high pressure or as sophisticated as a CR diesel, and the EGR and turbo shouldn't soot up but even so, still plenty scope for big bills :S

No new news in any of this, or is it just me?

I would prefer a petrol vRS, but I do on average 30,000 miles a year, so if I did I'd be broke!

But remember the equivalent performing TSI costs about £5K less (with the VAT deals) than than TDI and with that you can buy about 880 gallons of fuel so even if you took the petrol/diesel difference in consumption at 25% more ie 40 mpg against 50 mpg, then you would have to do 176,000 miles ie 4400 gallons at 40 mpg against 3,520 in the diesel to use up your 880 gallons worth you saved on the buy price. Compound that to the actual 4% diference in fuel prices and it is going to be many years before you get your money back.

The main diffence, and the only thing I really miss about the diesels are - not having to waste so much time filling up in service stations and not have to take it for servicing so often ie 24K gaps compared to 19K.

I love me olde 130 hp L&K estate which still does upper 50s mpg at 100K miles but for newer cars I am happy with the TSI choice on the 2 litre and 1.8 TSI we have although I am sure the 1.4 and 1.2 TSIs are great too, even better with DSG.

I do the bulk of my milage abroad, so most fills are considerably cheaper. However, the biggest plus for me, is the increase in range available. With a fill at the channel, I can get to Frankfurt without having to stop - although sometimes running on the wiff of an oily rag left if I get carried away.

What's the fuel consumption over 400 miles at an indicated 85 from a petrol?

In France, it seems as though only supermarkets sell fuel anymore, so if you are avoiding autoroutes and towns and are off in the twisties, some of my favourite routes would be getting marginal at less than 400+ miles per tank, and of course you may not be stating from a garage forcourt.

Yes, I like the lower running cost, especially touring, and the power delivery, and the freedom to choose where to go.

Nick

I do the bulk of my milage abroad, so most fills are considerably cheaper. However, the biggest plus for me, is the increase in range available. With a fill at the channel, I can get to Frankfurt without having to stop - although sometimes running on the wiff of an oily rag left if I get carried away.

What's the fuel consumption over 400 miles at an indicated 85 from a petrol?

In France, it seems as though only supermarkets sell fuel anymore, so if you are avoiding autoroutes and towns and are off in the twisties, some of my favourite routes would be getting marginal at less than 400+ miles per tank, and of course you may not be stating from a garage forcourt.

Yes, I like the lower running cost, especially touring, and the power delivery, and the freedom to choose where to go.

Nick

The small fuel tank is what bugs me about the Octavia. The 12 gallon tank would be better around 14 gallons or so like the A4, Exeo. If diesel is still cheaper in France or German like it use to be I would drive a diesel but if not an A4 or Exeo I would go for a BMW Eff Dynamics as both its economy and performance is so much better than the current Skoda diesel. Though I do love my 1.9D 130 hp L&K and I would be amazed if it was doing less than 40 mpg even at 130-140 kph hence still have a range of 450 miles or so.

Amazed how poor the range of Skodas are because of their small tanks compared to other marques. Still would not change the from the 1.8 TSI DSG. 400-450 mile range even at when thrashing, 500-600 miles when gentle. Petrol cheaper in the UK than diesel by 4 or 5% too.

The small fuel tank is what bugs me about the Octavia. The 12 gallon tank would be better around 14 gallons or so like the A4, Exeo. If diesel is still cheaper in France or German like it use to be I would drive a diesel but if not an A4 or Exeo I would go for a BMW Eff Dynamics as both its economy and performance is so much better than the current Skoda diesel. Though I do love my 1.9D 130 hp L&K and I would be amazed if it was doing less than 40 mpg even at 130-140 kph hence still have a range of 450 miles or so.

Amazed how poor the range of Skodas are because of their small tanks compared to other marques. Still would not change the from the 1.8 TSI DSG. 400-450 mile range even at when thrashing, 500-600 miles when gentle. Petrol cheaper in the UK than diesel by 4 or 5% too.

On a run (i.e. Motorway or A Road) I never get less than 40 mpg from my 1.4 tsi petrol so it is good for 400 miles plus which I find adequate. If I choose to limit speed to 60 mph I get 50 mpg which is in diesel territory.

Petrol 5p per litre cheaper than diesel at the moment. With all the unrest in the Middle East and China's thirst, anybody want to predict how much that gap will widen?

On a run (i.e. Motorway or A Road) I never get less than 40 mpg from my 1.4 tsi petrol so it is good for 400 miles plus which I find adequate. If I choose to limit speed to 60 mph I get 50 mpg which is in diesel territory.

Petrol 5p per litre cheaper than diesel at the moment. With all the unrest in the Middle East and China's thirst, anybody want to predict how much that gap will widen?

Is it fairly unhurried in top gear? I presume you have the six speed manual, I am amazed at the 7 speed DSG which is turning at quite a lot lower revs than our TSI VRS ie 29 mph/1000 for 1.8 TSI compared to 25mph/1000 for TSI VRS. TSI VRS could pull higher gearing or a 7th gear and get in to combined 40 mpg territory IMO.

Crazy situation but we cannot really have the 1.4 TSI in any form as SWMBOs mileage rate is much less for a sub 1500cc car. Employers are losing money by having 2 mileage rates rather than one averaged rate. (And you can claim tax back on the difference between what you are paid and the 40p and 25p rates of course).

I have heard that if you do lots of short journeys the diesel will need servicing more often (assuming flexible service intervals), in that situation a petrol engine wouldn't be at its most economical but I understand it can deal with it better from a servicing needs point of view. And.. even if you make regular long motorway journeys that is when the petrol will be at it's most economical anyway. I went back to petrol after having a diesel (different make though) and really and truly I just think a petrol engine is a nicer machine... ok that is just a subjective feeling but sometimes it is ok to chose something just because you like it even if it isn't totally rational.

But remember the equivalent performing TSI costs about £5K less (with the VAT deals) than than TDI and with that you can buy about 880 gallons of fuel so even if you took the petrol/diesel difference in consumption at 25% more ie 40 mpg against 50 mpg, then you would have to do 176,000 miles ie 4400 gallons at 40 mpg against 3,520 in the diesel to use up your 880 gallons worth you saved on the buy price. Compound that to the actual 4% diference in fuel prices and it is going to be many years before you get your money back.

The main diffence, and the only thing I really miss about the diesels are - not having to waste so much time filling up in service stations and not have to take it for servicing so often ie 24K gaps compared to 19K.

I love me olde 130 hp L&K estate which still does upper 50s mpg at 100K miles but for newer cars I am happy with the TSI choice on the 2 litre and 1.8 TSI we have although I am sure the 1.4 and 1.2 TSIs are great too, even better with DSG.

Agree for private buyers the current VAT free deal on petrol makes it a no brainer unless doing mega miles. For company or lease car drivers who dont get the benefit of the VAT free passed on to them then with lower emissions, and better fuel consumption and better BIK figures then diesel becomes sensible choice at fairly low milages.

Parkers have a tool that allows comparison of costs for petrol vs diesel. For my eagerly awaied Superb 1.6CR ( not Greenline) breakeven agains 1.8 TSi is about 12k miles- I do 18k miles a year so diesel is more cost effective afetr first 8 months, then for therest of the 3 years I have the car.

Agree for private buyers the current VAT free deal on petrol makes it a no brainer unless doing mega miles. For company or lease car drivers who dont get the benefit of the VAT free passed on to them then with lower emissions, and better fuel consumption and better BIK figures then diesel becomes sensible choice at fairly low milages.

Parkers have a tool that allows comparison of costs for petrol vs diesel. For my eagerly awaied Superb 1.6CR ( not Greenline) breakeven agains 1.8 TSi is about 12k miles- I do 18k miles a year so diesel is more cost effective afetr first 8 months, then for therest of the 3 years I have the car.

Company supplied cars are terrible for ones tax situation ie you get a near negative tax code and with the 40% tax threshold coming down £2k it was one of the main reasons I changed employers. Personal leases under-written by the employer are much better and as the VAT deal does not affect the BIK stupidly then agree that VAT deal is not so important although it must lower the lease price but also the residual as well I suppose.

The monthly cash amount for having a car for company business, £6K pa in my case is the better way but wacked at 40% tax of course unless I do some very creative tax planning which I intend to do (massive pension payments and raising tax code as much as possible). Fuel card also makes difference in petrol and diesel very small ie only get wacked for 40% of the fuel bought and that is offset at Treasury rates of 40ppm for first 10K and then 25ppm there after.

I worked out even the most economical diesel would only be a few hundred a year less and to go that way and loose the fun of the 7K rpm 7 speed screamer I could not talk myself in to going diesel. Also to get the VAT reduction off the L&K bits and cheap finance just chuffed to bits.

It is the more frequent stops for fuel and servicing that is the pain. Would have considered a Superb if the VAT deals were on them like they are now, would have been tempted by the 3.6L V6, so much car for silly money but range would be no better than on the Octy 1.8 TSI DSG, worse I guess!

Edited 19 February, 201115 yr by lol

In terms of engine complexity, there's not a lot to separate them now. Both are high pressure direct injection, both are turbo charged, both have sensitive injectors, EGR and other emission systems. The petrol though has an ignition system too which the diesel does not (failed coil packs anyone?) But then the diesel now has DPF.

The TSI has come a long way since it was first introduced and is smoother, more efficient and torquey than before but still higher on VED, and insurance (the petrol VRS was about 50 quid more a year for me) and obviously slightly worse on fuel (and the older one which I was looking at needed 97 RON thus fuel was the same per litre in price). Even with the difference in the price of fuel if I'd have run it on lumpy 95 RON , when I was looking at both cars (I seriously considered the petrol) the diesel still worked out cheaper as I wasn't buying new so the buying price was about the same, the prices of diesels going for about the same as petrols on 58 plate models.

Take into account the savings on mpg, VED and insurance it made sense and I don't do starship mileage.

Buying new however, if there was a serious price gap (but where performance was comparable) then that might tip the balance. When my FR Leon owning mate ordered his new one, the petrol cost more brand new than the diesel!!!

Means he was saving money over the petrol from day 1.

I am looking at buying a vrs i70 cr octavia 2008. I don't put up a lot of mileage so would I have problems with DPF?

Any advice?

Nope you shouldn't have. As long as you let it regen when it wants you should be fine. I don't do big miles and mine has been fine. It was back in the PD days most of the problems were around from what I can gather.

Thanks Chrispy. It will be my first Skoda and first diesel car in fact! How often will the regen need to happen? And do I need to drive it with high revs for a period or take it for a 'good hard drive'?

As a quick aside, the car I'm looking at is around €17000 - buying in Ireland. About 25,000 miles. Seems good value to me in comparison to prices in UK when VRT and exchange taken into account. What do you think?