Ok i know people will disagree here but here goes, having owned and been around turbo cars for a long time now, when tuning them me and my friends and various mates in the business (clive at RC developments, matt at roger clark) always took into consideration reliabilty and not pushing various components too far as with every car there is a weak link somewhere. My experience with my glanza from standard to 270whp taught me that the various components can go so far before they break or importantly you/we knew the limits of them. ie i knew that my turbo was fine up to 1.3 bar but above that u risked wearing it rapidly, resulting in failure. Hence why i never overboosted it.

The point here is that no one on here ever talks about boost levels and safe boost levels, all it is, is oh my cars remapped to blar blar. Now im also fully aware that components ie turbos etc can fail at any time BUT in 90% of cases its as a result of some kind of abuse by the owner, or one of these super duper remaps. Last nite i read that the stock 130 turbo can be pushing up to 1.8bar of pressure on a remapped car!! anyone that knows anything about turbos will know that for a run of the mill standard fit turbo thats rediculous!!iknow diesels run higher pressures anyway but 1.8 bar!! i think safe max on a huge HKS ball bearing turbo is like 2 bar! why on earth has no one made that connection?? instead of remapping the cars from 130 to 180 why dont they just tweak them up to say 150? keeping the parameters of the engine to a safer level and keeping the turbos in one piece! Then if more power is needed go for the bigger stronger 150 unit. The KKK unit is weak? yes of course it is thats why VAG used them!? People seem shocked when their turbo is knackered, after realising the pressures involved, i wouldnt be.

I maybe completely out of the ball park here but isn't the common cause of turbo failure (for the fabia) is overboost due to sticky VNT?

I assume it pops easier when remapped due to more smog in the turbo thus leading to earlier stickiness of vnt..? :S

iirc the std boost is at 1.3-1.4 bar with a good spike before levelling off, I assume increasing pressure by 20-30% (1.7-1.8 bar) isn't that much of a significant jump? Again I not know much so please correct if Im wrong.

Pd130 = 1.35

pd150 = 1.5

pd160 = 1.55

Isn't diesel tuning more about fueling than boost? Doesn't revo only up the pressure to 1.4 bar? 1.8 bar from a pd130 is asking for trouble.

Remapped is 1.6 bar

My hybrid was running 1.9 bar

Its just how turbo diesels work low bhp but high bar / psi

Yes your 'hybrid' was that's fine, what I'm saying is if the kkk unit is a known weakness through vnt issues or whatever, why are people ramming higher boost up it then crying when it goes pop? My mate is a tech at vw has been for 12 years, he services my car he said to me last weekend whilst servicing it 'this thing will run forever' my pd 130 golf is on 186k with no issues! I said are u serious? U don't see many issues with these engines at work?? He said nope! Only thing we see is flywheel problems. So obv if left un modified they are pretty much spot on, which leads me to believe that however small, increased boost is primarily why they fail. Someone on here has recently gone at 35k! That's a joke!!

dont forget though vw use garret turbos on their pd130 engines

Ye that's where the issues lie I guess? Are they also that vnt thing?

1.9-2.0 bar FTW.

im not sure i presume so but cant say for defianate.

Simple rule of thumb. If you want a car with 180BHP, buy one that was designed to put out that power. I feel for the FEW who have had PD130 turbos fail early, but on mapped cars (depending on boost limits) it's asking for trouble. I enjoy giving technical advise in this forum, but to be honest, the majority of threads are about tuning and lowering, different wheels etc etc. Some of the mods done are simply frightening. "I lowered my car 60mm and the tyres are rubbing on the arches". No sh+t, there's a shocker, and I bet the driveshafts are running at funny angles and trying to tear the CV joints to bits.

Full marks to those who know what they are doing and get it right. About 10% by my reckoning.

So do skoda use the seemingly weaker kkk unit to save money?

Simple rule of thumb. If you want a car with 180BHP, buy one that was designed to put out that power. I feel for the FEW who have had PD130 turbos fail early, but on mapped cars (depending on boost limits) it's asking for trouble. I enjoy giving technical advise in this forum, but to be honest, the majority of threads are about tuning and lowering, different wheels etc etc. Some of the mods done are simply frightening. "I lowered my car 60mm and the tyres are rubbing on the arches". No sh+t, there's a shocker, and I bet the driveshafts are running at funny angles and trying to tear the CV joints to bits.

Full marks to those who know what they are doing and get it right. About 10% by my reckoning.

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Edited 1 March, 201115 yr by JLneonhug

So do skoda use the seemingly weaker kkk unit to save money?

If you look at the number of VAG cars running KKK PD130 turbos, the failure rate (on standard cars) is very low. If they were all fitted with Garret, they would become the villain.

yes i believe that is the case skoda and seat use kkk to save money. something has got to give there are not going to make the vws and audis exactly the same as the seats and skodas. it wouldnt make financial sense.

Loads run maps fine, a nice smooth map, say 170bhp isnt going to make it go instantly pop. As long as its looked after there shouldnt be any issues. However, any increase in boost is going to shorten the life of the turbo, just the more its turned up the more chance it`ll die, start wacking it up higher and higher and it`ll go bang sooner and sooner.

Matt

Moggytech! Yes! A man with some mechanical knowledge! I reckon the fabias shud be remapped to within in capabilitys and not pushed to the limits,150bhp max I'd say, problem comes with these cheap generic maps, what a great way to make money! I looked on one particuler site and they are happy to sell me the kit to sell there remaps!

Matt1chelski - correct mate but why aren't these companies remapping the cars giving this info out? All they say is oh the car is detuned as standard so we tune it to how it should be! Oh ye so at in 2months after it goes pop! Having been into jap cars before this, if one of the jap tuners does a car they know what the limits of the engine are and set the car up accordingly, if the pd130 can't run a safe a reliable 180 bhp it shudnt be being mapped to that!

When i had my car mapped at unit 18 i was explained to what was going to be done, and how i wanted it mapped, i asked for something sensible that wasnt going to cause too much extra stress on the clutch and turbo. I ended up with a nice smooth remap, causing no issues to the turbo (on 80,000 when mapped/110,000 now) or clutch (150,000 mile original)

On the other hand my mate had his mapped by a "big name" tuning company, made 182bhp on the rollers, managed to get thru two turbos too before changing it. Careful choice of who touches my car and does work on it means i dont have too many issues, but some people are drawn in by a big figure or bit of "chat", these people will be the ones who have problems.

Matt

The original VRS (ASZ engine) was indeed detuned slightly, which is why the later BLT units stick out closer to 150BHP as standard. Skoda punted these out for a shade under 13K IIRC, obviously parts pricing is very important when a similar VW would cost 16K or more. IMHO even tuning a VRS to 180BHP requires a PD150 turbo. Silly boost will also kill the dual mass flywheel due to torque spikes, and the crown wheel in the differential is RIVETED to the carrier. So ideally, the gearbox should be stripped, and the rivets replaced with the special bolts that are available.

It's the difference between doing half a job, or doing the job right, which gets very expensive. It's also easier to get decent insurance, on a car designed to stick out 180BHP, rather than one that's been modified. Very few insurers like the modified word. The resale value is also effected.

Still, every car belongs to an individual, and it's a free country. So I guess 225BHP, lowered 60mm,on pink wheels with green calipers is fine

It's also easier to get decent insurance, on a car designed to stick out 180BHP, rather than one that's been modified.

Not always the case, else I might well have ended up with a ibiza cupra.

Which has just made me think, do the ibiza`s have the special bolts in the gearbox that you talk of?

Matt

Not always the case, else I might well have ended up with a ibiza cupra.

Which has just made me think, do the ibiza`s have the special bolts in the gearbox that you talk of?

Matt

IIRC they fitted spreader plates across the rivets to spread the load. Could be completely wrong though, as I've never had much to do with the SEAT range. Morris 1000 gearbox rebuild with eyes shut is possible though

Morris 1000 gearbox rebuild with eyes shut is possible though

How many gears and what power do they take?

Matt

How many gears and what power do they take?

Matt

Four speed, 47BHP with a standard 1098 engine. 0-60 24 seconds. Bad for stripping the laygear on mildly tuned engines. Engine is very high torque given it's age, (will pull away from 6 MPH in top gear) Tuneable to 110BHP without too much effort.

Ooops, thread hijack, sorry OP.

Ahhh wicked. Same motor as Dot in eastenders Pretty mad that its power can be doubled easily.

So 1.65 is too much for a kkk?