Urgent! What is the colour of new oil filter material

[davesnr]

Good evening guys, I hope very much someone can help me with this strange request.

I have just had a 40K service on my 1.4 Tdi Sport at a Skoda dealer, I drove the car home approx 5 miles and checked the oil level,and although it had been changed it was not the colour of oil that has only done 5 miles - it was quite black, I know oils now tend to be a very dark grey - it was as though the oil filter had not been changed and the oil in the filter bowl had coloured the new oil.

I know from experience that dealers do skip the filter change to save a few quid most punters don't know where the filter is & don't check, it happened to me on my previous car a 1.6 Tdci focus, despite initialy denying the alligation I made the dealer change it in front of me and was proved correct when a filthy black filter emerged, stinking of used oil. He appologised profusely and assured me it had been an oversight as they were very busy but since then I always check the colour of the oil.

I have owned diesels for many years and know the oil goes black quickly, but not after 5 miles.

So I then unscrewed the oil filter and it was very black and smelly, I ran my finger nail across the filter material but it is black, I would have thought a new filter would not have been so contaminated and the colour of the filter material would show.

So I want to know what colour the filter paper/material is on a brand new filter for a 1.4 Tdi. is it orange, yellow or white, I don't for one moment think it would be black but want to check.

I have checked the oil colour immediately after services from this Skoda dealer before and had no problems or doubts, but this time I have.

I was also charged for a Z1 Oil System Flush so am 99% sure that I have been shafted as this should have cleaned the engine and prolonged the newness of the oil.

I really need answers tonight as guess where I will be going tomorrow morning !!

I love my car but this has pi**ed me off big time !

[mannyo]

With diesel the oil goes black as soon as you turn the key. Black oil just after a service in a diesel is perfectly normal.

[JerryT]

It sounds like the job hasn't been done but i can't say for certain. I would have expected the oil to be relatively clean after a service especially if you had an engine flush as well, but without actually being able to touch and sniff the oil it is a difficult call to make (yes i can tell such things and also by doing some analysis, i used to be a lab manager analysing new and used lubricants). Can you see the filter relatively easily? if so, have a check and see if it looks new or has just been wiped over or is still coveed in muck from the road? if it doesn't look new then i guess they haven't done what they said they have.

As a tip for the future, if it is relatively easy to get at the oil filter, can i suggest that you mark it. Gaffer/electrical insulating tape works quite well, as when a new one is fitted you should be able to check immediately that it has been changed.

Not much help in reality, but if your not happy, i would go back and at least ask the question.

Jerry

[Tech1e]

Rubbish, as mannyo correctly said the oil will always be black even if a flush is used. Quite often have this comment. Usual way to resolve it is to invite the customer in to watch a second oil change be carried out. If after the oil is changed again it is clean I will pay for the service myself, but if it's still black then they can pay for the service plus the oil change. Always seem to believe me after that.

Colour doesn't indicate the state of the oil incidentally.

Oil filter on that particular engine is a paper element type.

Edited 3 March, 2011 by Tech1e

[TeflonTom]

agreed, there is always some old oil in the engine even after it's been completely drained and flushed, especially in the oil filter housing and oil cooler plus the cylinder head and hydraulic lifters retain a fair amount too, as soon as it starts up the residual oil gets pushed into the filter.... but to answer your question they are yellow elements when they are clean

[davesnr]

Thanks for replies so far, as tech1e says it is a paper filter in a bowl on top the engine, BUT WHAT COLOUR IS THE PAPER?

I wish I had marked the housing lid but as I said I have had 3 other services with no problems, I am an engineer, been driving & servicing diesels for 20 years, but get my new cars serviced by main dealers whilst in waranty, so I do have a degree of knowledge.

I said that the oil is blacker than new, I would expect some discolouration given the surface area of the engine inside - BUT I have been charged for Oil System Cleaner, so would not expect it to be this dirty after 5 miles, Previous services using the same oil have not been this dirty, the filter when I lifted it was filthy and stank of burnt oil, this service has not been done properly.

Any more observations would be welcome - I will let you know how my complaint progresses.

[TeflonTom]

what i suggest to you is to go and buy a new filter, put it in there, run the engine for 20 seconds then pull it out again and see what it looks like!

[vRS Carl]

I have a PD140 Octy and had it serviced recently.

I drove literally 3 miles and checked the oil and it was black. It is normal in a diseasel and they go black very quickly.

[davesnr]

Thanks Teflon Tom,

Was busy typing when your reply came in, I am now 100% sure the filter has not been changed, after 5 miles I would expect to see some yellow when scraping a finger nail across the filter, as contamination would not have got all the way through.

[rwbaldwin]

...BUT WHAT COLOUR IS THE PAPER?...

It's black - the engine has been run!

It really does only take a minute to turn black even after a flush. It's stained black - you wont be able to see the original colour by wiping the surface oil off

[xman]

davesnr,

the filter paper material is off white/cream when new and unused - as soon as the oil hit the filter it will turn grey as it traps the larger soot particles.

Everything is as it should be. Oil will be black seconds after the engine is run. This is testament to the detergent properties of modern oil. There is a tremendous amount of soot in a diesel engine and you would have to flush and run several times to get anywhere back to a clean as new block and oil.

As they used a "cleaner", it probably dislodged far more carbon and that is now free to mix with the oil.

No dealer will skimp on a filter, it costs them pence and it takes literally 30 seconds to change on the 1.4tdi. If you argue, they would be within their rights to ask for the oil to be tested at a lab(at your cost if it goes against you) and you will have the embarrassment of eating humble pie in addition to a hefty bill.

The older the car, the quicker the oil turns black. Cleaners only aggravate the problem and in general shouldn't be required or used unless there is good reason (evidence of blockages, sticking valves etc)

[GeneralPurpose]

Dave...what you are describing is absolutely normal, especially as you have had the flush. As Xman says, a flush will often dislodge lots of stuff in the sump and elsewhere and will actually make the new oil discolour even more quickly. Your old oil filter is just one place old oil/flushing agent would have been residing. It's actually everywhere in a 1.4TDI and virtually impossible to get back to the new oil state unless you have several flushes. As the car gets older the new oil blackens even more quickly. But don't worry, it's all ok just drive it. My 1422cc TDI turned completely black after just a two mile drive home from the dealer. Completely normal. However, I do understand your concern having been shafted previously by a Ford dealer. In general...that isn't something that happens by design these days if you use the main dealers. And oversights are very uncommon too as techs work to a routine and stick to it to prevent such mistakes.

[davesnr]

Thanks for the advice,

I am not 100% convinced but have decided to leave things as they are, its just that the new oil was dirtier soon than on previous services - but the car is 10K older.

Next service will be done by myself as the car will be over 3 years old and out of warranty.

Regards to all

davesnr

[GeneralPurpose]

Thanks for the advice,

I am not 100% convinced but have decided to leave things as they are, its just that the new oil was dirtier soon than on previous services - but the car is 10K older.

Next service will be done by myself as the car will be over 3 years old and out of warranty.

Regards to all

davesnr

Dave, I thought of you this afternoon. I took my 1422ccTDI into my dealers...Underwoods of Colchester for an oil and filter change today. This is a mid term in between services extra oil change for our car due to it having been used for mostly short trips this winter. It hasn't had many long drives by comparison and I could see the oil getting cruddy. I know my dealer well and the service was completed in every respect by the book. By the time I was home (just 2 miles) the oil was completely black again, but the engine had been flushed today too. I expected this would be the case regarding the colour of the oil. I normally would do this sort of job myself but I am unable to do work like that at the moment.

[wonkydonkey]

Good evening guys, I hope very much someone can help me with this strange request.

I have just had a 40K service on my 1.4 Tdi Sport at a Skoda dealer, I drove the car home approx 5 miles and checked the oil level,and although it had been changed it was not the colour of oil that has only done 5 miles - it was quite black, I know oils now tend to be a very dark grey - it was as though the oil filter had not been changed and the oil in the filter bowl had coloured the new oil.

I know from experience that dealers do skip the filter change to save a few quid most punters don't know where the filter is & don't check, it happened to me on my previous car a 1.6 Tdci focus, despite initialy denying the alligation I made the dealer change it in front of me and was proved correct when a filthy black filter emerged, stinking of used oil. He appologised profusely and assured me it had been an oversight as they were very busy but since then I always check the colour of the oil.

I have owned diesels for many years and know the oil goes black quickly, but not after 5 miles.

So I then unscrewed the oil filter and it was very black and smelly, I ran my finger nail across the filter material but it is black, I would have thought a new filter would not have been so contaminated and the colour of the filter material would show.

So I want to know what colour the filter paper/material is on a brand new filter for a 1.4 Tdi. is it orange, yellow or white, I don't for one moment think it would be black but want to check.

I have checked the oil colour immediately after services from this Skoda dealer before and had no problems or doubts, but this time I have.

I was also charged for a Z1 Oil System Flush so am 99% sure that I have been shafted as this should have cleaned the engine and prolonged the newness of the oil.

I really need answers tonight as guess where I will be going tomorrow morning !!

I love my car but this has pi**ed me off big time !

Diesel oil will be black as soon as you turn the key as the fresh additive package in the new oil is cleaning the old oil deposits that have been left behind. The engine flush should have got rid of most of it but not all engine flushes are equal and you don't know if the tech released the oil filter before the sump bung or how much time the tech left it to drain out. If the flush is done properly with a high quality one the oil should be light grey.

regards

pete