Hi, 5 weeks in and 7 to go?? for my 1.2TSi (105) DSB Fabia Hatch.

I've watched with interest (sometimes worry) the threads on DSG delay maybe linked to Hill Hold Control (HHC).

For those who are lucky enough to have their cars, could you consider the following/offer comments.

If you had manual gearbox (not DSG in sport/Tiptronic mode), driver skill (brake off, clutch out and accelerate) has always been done to avoid rolling back. When the hill is too steep, the driver resorts to holding with the handbrake so the revs/clutch can be coordinated to avoid rolling back.

With the DSG, with the steep hill scenario, the handbrake method would be used. In this case, the accelerator would be pressed and only when the driver was happy with the engine speed great enough not to stall and clutch starting to engage, would he release the handbrake.

I presume that with the handbrake on and the footbrake released, then the HHC "short" delay would have elapsed long before releasing the handbrake.

The question is: Has anyone noticed if there is a "delay" when pressing the accelerator under these steep hill conditions? If not, it would point to HHC causing the delay. Is there a way of turning the HHC off? Does anyone think that the HHC could be the cause of the "delay�

retiredbri

Hi, 5 weeks in and 7 to go?? for my 1.2TSi (105) DSB Fabia Hatch.

I've watched with interest (sometimes worry) the threads on DSG delay maybe linked to Hill Hold Control (HHC).

For those who are lucky enough to have their cars, could you consider the following/offer comments.

If you had manual gearbox (not DSG in sport/Tiptronic mode), driver skill (brake off, clutch out and accelerate) has always been done to avoid rolling back. When the hill is too steep, the driver resorts to holding with the handbrake so the revs/clutch can be coordinated to avoid rolling back.

With the DSG, with the steep hill scenario, the handbrake method would be used. In this case, the accelerator would be pressed and only when the driver was happy with the engine speed great enough not to stall and clutch starting to engage, would he release the handbrake.

I presume that with the handbrake on and the footbrake released, then the HHC "short" delay would have elapsed long before releasing the handbrake.

The question is: Has anyone noticed if there is a "delay" when pressing the accelerator under these steep hill conditions? If not, it would point to HHC causing the delay. Is there a way of turning the HHC off? Does anyone think that the HHC could be the cause of the "delay�

retiredbri

i was leaned that way by my farther in law hand brake & clutch and still the best way i think we rely to much stuff theses days pete

Our HHC is very good.

There is no delay.

It works very well indeed and it makes the handbrake redundant

Our HHC is very good.

There is no delay.

It works very well indeed and it makes the handbrake redundant

A but what about those childish handbrake turns in tesco car park!!!

Hi, 5 weeks in and 7 to go?? for my 1.2TSi (105) DSB Fabia Hatch.

I've watched with interest (sometimes worry) the threads on DSG delay maybe linked to Hill Hold Control (HHC).

For those who are lucky enough to have their cars, could you consider the following/offer comments.

If you had manual gearbox (not DSG in sport/Tiptronic mode), driver skill (brake off, clutch out and accelerate) has always been done to avoid rolling back. When the hill is too steep, the driver resorts to holding with the handbrake so the revs/clutch can be coordinated to avoid rolling back.

With the DSG, with the steep hill scenario, the handbrake method would be used. In this case, the accelerator would be pressed and only when the driver was happy with the engine speed great enough not to stall and clutch starting to engage, would he release the handbrake.

I presume that with the handbrake on and the footbrake released, then the HHC "short" delay would have elapsed long before releasing the handbrake.

The question is: Has anyone noticed if there is a "delay" when pressing the accelerator under these steep hill conditions? If not, it would point to HHC causing the delay. Is there a way of turning the HHC off? Does anyone think that the HHC could be the cause of the "delay�

retiredbri

Hi retiredbri,

I don't think the 'delay' when moving off that most people refer to has anything to do with hills/handbrake/HHC - it appears to be a delay in DSG engaging gear and moving off rapidly as sometimes required at junctions/roundabouts etc. Some cars seem to be affected and others not.

With regards to moving off on a steep hill with DSG there is no need to use the 'handbrake method' as you have described, DSG just doesn't work like that -HHC does the job for you. Say for example you were paked on a steep hill with the handbrake on to move off you would: 1. Press footbrake 2. shift into D 3. Release handbrake 4. Apply accelerator and move off -the HHC will prevent any roll back by keeping the breaks on for the time it takes you to move your foot from the footbrake onto the accelerator...

Pressing the accelerator whilst in D with the handbrake on would not be good for the car at all :no:

I don't think its possible to disable HHC butI could be wrong.

Hope this helps!

HHC is a strange one to get used to at first, it does take some doing to entirely put your confidence in electronics to stop a car from rolling back!After I tried it out a few times though it works perfectly, and I have tested it on some very steep hills indeed!It literally is just as easy as holding the car on the footbrake, releasing the footbrake and accelerating away.I think the quoted time from releasing the footbrake to the brakes releasing is 2 seconds.

What happens if you don't get your foot on the accelerator in the 2 seconds...does it roll back?

What happens if you don't get your foot on the accelerator in the 2 seconds...does it roll back?

Yes it does. 2 seconds doesn't sound like long but in reality is more than enough.

Yes it is long enough. I have a DSG equipped Octavia and though there doesn't seem much of a delay with the clutch engaging, on an uphill section when I move my foot from the brake to the throttle to move off I can feel and hear the brakes releasing.

Ian

Thanks for the comments.

Furbytom......I don't think the 'delay' when moving off that most people refer to has anything to do with hills/handbrake/HHC - it appears to be a delay in DSG engaging gear and moving off rapidly as sometimes required at junctions/roundabouts etc. Some cars seem to be affected and others not.

When does the DSG engage gear? Is it when the accelerator is pressed? or well before (with the clutch plates apart)?

In our current C3 with tiptronic, when stopped at junctions/traffic lights etc, the display says "1" (1st gear engaged) and the clutch plates are held apart. As soon as the accelerator is pressed, the clutch plates come together and the car moves off - no delay.

With the DSG in cars that have the "delay" problem, does the display show D1 while at junctions etc? If so, and the car doesn't move off immediately then it points to the clutch delay.

And, if you are on a hill in a car that has the reported "delay" problem, would the 2 second hill hold expire before the dreaded "delay"? If so, the car would roll back?

Any ideas?

retiredbri

Thanks for the comments.

When does the DSG engage gear? Is it when the accelerator is pressed? or well before (with the clutch plates apart)?

In our current C3 with tiptronic, when stopped at junctions/traffic lights etc, the display says "1" (1st gear engaged) and the clutch plates are held apart. As soon as the accelerator is pressed, the clutch plates come together and the car moves off - no delay.

With the DSG in cars that have the "delay" problem, does the display show D1 while at junctions etc? If so, and the car doesn't move off immediately then it points to the clutch delay.

And, if you are on a hill in a car that has the reported "delay" problem, would the 2 second hill hold expire before the dreaded "delay"? If so, the car would roll back?

Any ideas?

retiredbri

The DSG engages gear when it decides that forward motion would be appropriate. It doesn't require a press of the throttle to engage gear necessarily -for example when stationary and you take your foot off the brake it will start to creep forward (very slowly) even without touching the accelerator. This doesn't happen of course if you are on a hill as HHC would be engaged.

I had the dreaded 'delay' during the first 2 weeks of ownership -D1 would be on the display when it happened. Only used to occur when trying to accelerate quickly tho. Luckily problem has now vanished! I guess the DSG has 'learned' it lesson

On your last point the 'delay' for me was only in the order of 0.5-1sec so can't see it being an issue when HHC active -never noticed it in this situation anyhow, only seemed to be a problem when trying to rapidly pull out at junctions/roundabouts on the flat.

Hope this helps!

Tom

....Hope this helps!

Tom

Thanks Tom - it certainly does.

When the "hesitation" was first mentioned (nightmare test drive of a VRS) I got the impression that the first gear wasn't engaged.

The hesitation has been being reported on VW/Audi forums since 2008. This probably means that there is no such thing as a DSG upgrade in 2011 (unless the VAG still haven't got it right). To help matters, it would be good if VAG tells their customers to give the DSG computer time to adjust (maybe they have!).

Regards

retiredbri,

First gear will always be engaged, the clutch will be disengaged though. As soon as you take your foot off the brake the car will engage the clutch, it knows by the signal it gets from the brake light switch, and as the HHC releases the brake the car will pull away, even without the throttle pressed.

Ian

The Driving Standards Agency (DSA) Who conduct Uk driving tests, are just starting to allow the hill hold systems on cars to be used for the driving test... Until recently it was classed as not being suitable for the purpose of a test but they relented due to the recent popularity of these systems.

Makes me wonder though, Why, as a learner SHOULD have learned how to use the clutch/gas/handbrake technique in the first place and what happens to a new driver when they buy their first car without this function? They do an "ASDA"

and roll-back!

And I thought the DSA were generally making passing the test MORE difficult, in order to RAISE driving standards!

The Driving Standards Agency (DSA) Who conduct Uk driving tests, are just starting to allow the hill hold systems on cars to be used for the driving test... Until recently it was classed as not being suitable for the purpose of a test but they relented due to the recent popularity of these systems.

Makes me wonder though, Why, as a learner SHOULD have learned how to use the clutch/gas/handbrake technique in the first place and what happens to a new driver when they buy their first car without this function? They do an "ASDA"

and roll-back!

And I thought the DSA were generally making passing the test MORE difficult, in order to RAISE driving standards!

I'm a driving instructor, and the hill hold will always be on in the vRS (auto) but I ised to teach in the punto (which had a hill holder, manual) and the hill holder would only engage if you were on a hill, in first gear, with the handbrake off, clutch down and foot on the brake. If the handbrake was on (as it should be) the hill holder wouldn't engage, so the learner had to do the proper balancing of the cluch in bite to prevent rolling back. The skill could still be tested. If they drive correctly the hill holder would never operate. Difefrent situation in autos, remember before the time of HH's conventional autos would hold on a hill anyway, due to "creep" so it really makes no difference.

Going back to driving tests what about cars without a conventional handbreak realy though you can kind of fudge it if you had to.

As you can't perform a hillstart with an electric servo (I think) handbreak as like an auto and you need your foot on the break to let the handbreak off.

Going back to driving tests what about cars without a conventional handbreak realy though you can kind of fudge it if you had to.

As you can't perform a hillstart with an electric servo (I think) handbreak as like an auto and you need your foot on the break to let the handbreak off.

electronic handbrakes (like when you just press a button) are currently banned.

electronic handbrakes (like when you just press a button) are currently banned.

I believe that has recently changed hasn't it? Or is due to change?

Edited 4 April, 201115 yr by LeedsVRS

I believe that has recently changed hasn't it? Or is due to change?

they are constantly changing (and never tell me! lol..) I may be due to change in the future, I know it was under discussion to allow electronic handbrakes (like the ones renault employ) It may have gone through already!