The biggest obstacle to people picking Skodas

[St]

On our job fleet we have about 300+ user chooser vehicles, on top of the working vehicles, cars vans trucks etc.

Hardly anyone has a Skoda despite them being very well specified.

eg Basic level is the Octy Elegance / L & K

next level up it's the Superb Elegance and possibly even a Yeti Elegance, or people could take the Octy L&K and stick on loads of extras, even though that never makes a lot of sense vs a Superb, I digress.

These are set against the basic 3 series 318D SE as just one example, which is fitted with, well, tyres just about if you can call those run flat things tyres.

So why? Badge snobbery is obviously still an element, but the main obstacle now seems to be that VW are deliberately holding back the latest engines and other technology from Skoda.

When will this change? Probably never I guess, but we have quite a few drivers who would happily go for a Superb Combi Elegance yet feel they get bent over by the taxman because of the emissions.

You can explain to people that in costs to them it's not that much, but they'd still rather have a much less well specified Passat vs a Superb.

Nowt so queer as folk, but when will it change? Is it just a matter of time and getting increasing numbers of such as classy Superbs out there and people asking "What's that?" and being surprised at the answer?

[stevehg]

but the main obstacle now seems to be that VW are deliberately holding back the latest engines and other technology from Skoda.

When will this change? Probably never I guess,

That's your view, and based on no facts it seems too.

[Gorillaz_Doktor]

That's your view, and based on no facts it seems too. He has a point. For example, Passat has adaptative cruise control. Skoda does'nt. Perforatel leather seats with clima is still yet to come. As far as options and "standard" options, Skoda is marketed in the group as "economic class". And is somehow normal. Beacause Skoda does not invest in tehnological development, but VW does. So is normal for VW to have first choice and to demand to be marketed as above Skoda. (as an example, the CR engine was developed by VW with Audi in 2009 and were first use on VW and Audi. Skoda did not participated in the development, so they recieved the engine one year later - not bad considdering...)

Of course, there is some snobbery, but take into consideration that as far as stability and handling, BMW is leading the pack. You cannot achieve this without investing sometimes ridiculous amounts of money in development and fine-tuning the drive-train, hence, bigger prices.

BMW, Audi and Merc want to deliver best cars, they are ,"The ultimate driving machine", "Vorsprung Durch Technik" and "The best or nothing" Skoda wants to be "Simply clever"

Dont get me wrong, i love my Superb (except the squeaking doors that drives me crazy). But driving quite some cars from this manufacturers, i can see and feel the difference.

[Farmerjim]

I think the main reason for not choosing a Skoda is the intolerably long wait for them to get around to building it.

[spaz74]

I think the main reason for not choosing a Skoda is the intolerably long wait for them to get around to building it.

+1 especially those with company leases as they generally don't plan 6 months ahead of their lease finishing, more like 6 weeks.

[veloplus]

+1 especially those with company leases as they generally don't plan 6 months ahead of their lease finishing, more like 6 weeks.

Agreed! When my Superb is 6 months away from the lease expiry at month 48 I'll be looking to choose a replacement and get the order authorised. In all honesty, because of my higher than normal mileage, this might be even sooner than the 42 month point.

As for badge snobbery, at our office, out of 7 company cars, 4 are Skodas. One of my colleagues was persauded to choose a Octy 2.0 TDI CR Elegance instead of a A3 or Golf and he is very happy with his car.

This is now my second Skoda and I will probably have a third.

It is a shame you cannot order a Octy/Superb with Bluemotion Technology, as with the Golf and Passat, however, I appreciate VW does this to protect its own sales. The economy and emissions advantages are substantial.

[mbrock]

Well the elderly PD engines were not a great selling point, but the CR diesels and the TSI petrols are now available across the Skoda range, and the adaptive/cornering lights are another feature where Skoda are leading the way - we were looking at the Golf Plus before we bought the Yeti and it couldn't be had with Xenons at all, let alone the excellent cornering lights on the Yeti Elegance.

As for driving - having driven the Superb against the 3-Series and C-Class, I would choose the Superb over both even if the price difference was reversed - the "prestige" German marques have really lost the plot when it comes to chassis design - and other flaws such as the BMW's notchy gearchange and the Merc's lack of refinement just reinforce the logical choice.

[kensym]

When looking round for a new car I looked at most makes but went with the Skoda based on the car and dealer experience and not the badge, I dont realy have a budget for a car as long as it makes sense in my head. My experience of other makes was

Ford - ignored in showroom for over 20 mins and still waiting for a call to confirm my booking for a test drive (since July!)

Mercedes - salesman so far up his own a*** because he sold Mercs and horrified when I ask about servicing cost, didnt know and could not see why it was an issue and so had to go and ask in the service dept(very expensive)

Peugeot - estate only available with glass roof, I wont have a glass roof on a car

Honda - the estate is tiny in the back, no load capacity

Didnt find the BMW comfortable and was suprised wheels and seats were standard

Narrow door cards on Citroen and Mazda (no where to rest me right elbow on a long drive)

Chrysler 300 - 28MPG from the diesel!!

Audi - Price OUCH!

and most of the cars available now only come with black interiors

Ended up at Wayside in Milton Keynes looked at the Passat (nice car) and then went through to the Skoda showroom, nice people to deal with know their product and got good customer service, the space and spec of the Superb did it for me. Tthey got my business and up to date it appears I made the right choice, wife came with me on the second road test and landed up buying the Octavia as she said she was immpressed with the dealer (and car) after looking at other makes.

but Skoda still suffer a bit with badge snobbery, my daughter a prime example first comment on seeing the Superb, wow what a fantastic car! but its a Skoda. When I have had customers in the car and they haven't noticed what make it was before getting in to it they have been amazed and one now has one on order.

Edited 28 April, 2011 by kensym

[Jannesm]

I think the main reason for not choosing a Skoda is the intolerably long wait for them to get around to building it.

Do you think VW is any better - 6-7mths compared to 3 months at Škoda (diesel+DSG).

I would have ordered Saab 9-5 in 6 weeks delivery but the aut. gearbox is awfully sluggish.

For us the biggest problem is the snobbery as police and taxis are using Superbs.

Otherwise if diesel+aut+4x4 combination with good 2nd row space, costs, options and price - there is no competition.

Audi-BMW-Merc-Volvo start where Škoda ends, Ford is too small in the back and no 4x4, Opel too thirsty, japanese are too mediocre...

[kgreenhough]

Surely the whole point is that Skoda allows VAG to sell cars to people who can't afford/aren't prepared to pay for the very latest tech. If a Superb had all the same options as a Passat or an A6, it would have to cost more or less as much - it wouldn't make business sense for the group to have cars competing that directly against each other and a whole bunch of customers would get swept up elsewhere.

[Supurbia]

I just loved them that got in my Superb MK1 and said I like this car what is it only to turn the beak up once they knew what it was, total ignorance to what is one of the best built car's you can buy and it won't spend half it's life on a ramp either.

[St]

That's your view, and based on no facts it seems too.

Firstly based on direct feedback from Skoda people.

Secondly based on reasons people give for not choosing them when it comes to renewal time despite the better specification and despite them angling to have the permission to fit extras on the likes of Passats and Audis that come as standard on the Skodas.

The emissions factor and effect on BIK is clearly the main one, it could in some cases be a cover up for badge snobbery but no way of determining that.

Seems stevehg comes out with posts based on no evidence.

We plan 6 months minimum ahead on replacements not 6 weeks, but even that forward planning is getting stretched, and not just by Volkswagen-Audi-Skoda-Seat group either.

Edited 29 April, 2011 by St?lmunk

[stevehg]

Seems stevehg comes out with posts based on no evidence.

Hi

try re-reading my post.

In your post you stated that "VW are deliberately holding back the latest engines and other technology from Skoda."

So what do you base this on??

Steve

[Lady Elanore]

I don't know if it is the biggest obstacle to people buying Skodas, but the points made about technology and features being held back, are probably a good reason for Skodas value for money. I wanted flappy paddles with my DSG Octy, but Only Audi and VW had them at the time :( It was only a small matter and not worth me spending a few extra thousand pounds for the privilege of getting them, albeit with a different badge on the front of the car When I look at Skoda, I expect to get 90-95% of a VW but at 80-90% of the cost. It works both ways however. I now have an A4 with quite a few bells and whistles and it lacks the cleverest feature on my Octy (it isn't even available as an option!). What is it?.................

.......it's the plastic clip on the drivers A pillar that you can keep you parking tickets in place with (and you don't need to peel the stick back protector off them either )

Edited 29 April, 2011 by Lady Elanore

[St]

Hi

try re-reading my post.

In your post you stated that "VW are deliberately holding back the latest engines and other technology from Skoda."

So what do you base this on??

Steve

Oh for goodness sake try re-reading my post " based on feedback from Skoda people"

This is people employed by Skoda, not dealers, but factory and marketing. HTH

Anyway leave it, CBA.

[Coops]

I'm going to be shortly in the position of ordering a new company car - my original choice was going to be a 2.0 TDi 140 Superb Estate.

But I won't be getting one - why? Company car tax - I can have a 320d Touring for much much less tax than a Superb. I really can't work it out - the 2.0 diesel in the new Passat is only 120g/km yet in the Superb it's 140g/km - is Skoda being given a rough ride by VWG?

The BMW will actually be less than by current Octy so I can't really justify having a Superb.

[Gorillaz_Doktor]

I dont know the difference in tax between BMW and Skoda, but in this matter, do the math like this:

BMW = aquisition price + operating costs + insurance cost + depreciation

vs

Skoda = aquisition price + operating costs + insurance costs + depreciation

The price difference of aquisition si around 10 000 E (over 8000 pounds) between my Superb and an equivalent BMW. I think that covers the difference in tax.

Skoda Superb Sedan manual transmision 170 Hp Elegance - 25 608 Euro

BMW 320d Sedan manual transmision basic - 35 989 Euro

The difference mantains over the Estate class.

I understand that the company pays for it, but showing how you care about the company's finance, you can get a good car and score some points with the management

[stevehg]

Oh for goodness sake try re-reading my post " based on feedback from Skoda people"

This is people employed by Skoda, not dealers, but factory and marketing. HTH

Anyway leave it, CBA.

Nice to meet you too, friendly chap

Cheers

Steve

[St]

Nice to meet you too, friendly chap

Cheers

Steve

That from someone who came in with a snarky comment which added nothing to the thread, then couldn't take it when handed back the same treatment.

G'day, have fun.

[Coops]

I dont know the difference in tax between BMW and Skoda, but in this matter, do the math like this:

BMW = aquisition price + operating costs + insurance cost + depreciation

vs

Skoda = aquisition price + operating costs + insurance costs + depreciation

The price difference of aquisition si around 10 000 E (over 8000 pounds) between my Superb and an equivalent BMW. I think that covers the difference in tax.

Skoda Superb Sedan manual transmision 170 Hp Elegance - 25 608 Euro

BMW 320d Sedan manual transmision basic - 35 989 Euro

The difference mantains over the Estate class.

I understand that the company pays for it, but showing how you care about the company's finance, you can get a good car and score some points with the management

Fully understand where you are coming from but our company car scheme doesn't work like that - depending upon the grade you are on, you get a a fixed monthly lease amount and a fixed COg/km also. You are then able to choose from a selection of cars from the VWG (Skoda, Audi, VW, SEAT) plus BMW and are able to go upto your monthly lease limit and/or COg/km limit.

I am limited to £380 per month and/or 145g/km - if you wish to can add options also (again upto the lease amount). So you can either have an expensive car with no options or a cheaper car and spec up.

I just feel that Skoda's engines aren't as well tuned as the other VWG engines. Both the 2.0 diesels in the A4 and Passat are significantly lower in emissions that the Superb 2.0, I think it is 120g/km against 140 or 145 in the Skoda. Likewise the 2.0 lump in the BMW 3 Series is also 120g/km. Therefore I can't justify having the Skoda @ £22k and paying more tax than a BMW @ £27k??

This may well be putting some company car drivers off?

[St]

Fully understand where you are coming from but our company car scheme doesn't work like that - depending upon the grade you are on, you get a a fixed monthly lease amount and a fixed COg/km also. You are then able to choose from a selection of cars from the VWG (Skoda, Audi, VW, SEAT) plus BMW and are able to go upto your monthly lease limit and/or COg/km limit.

I am limited to £380 per month and/or 145g/km - if you wish to can add options also (again upto the lease amount). So you can either have an expensive car with no options or a cheaper car and spec up.

I just feel that Skoda's engines aren't as well tuned as the other VWG engines. Both the 2.0 diesels in the A4 and Passat are significantly lower in emissions that the Superb 2.0, I think it is 120g/km against 140 or 145 in the Skoda. Likewise the 2.0 lump in the BMW 3 Series is also 120g/km. Therefore I can't justify having the Skoda @ £22k and paying more tax than a BMW @ £27k??

This may well be putting some company car drivers off?

This is exactly the point I was getting at in starting the thread, plus wondering (out loud) what other obstacle there are.

For example with your parameters you could have a Passat 2.0DSG but not a Superb 2.0 140PS DSG simply due to the CO2 figures.

I don't have the CO2 restriction but comparing

Passat Estate 2.0 DSG Sport with Xenon, heated rear seats, load net, parking sensors the P11D is ~28.5k BIK% is 20% and @ 40% marginal tax rate that's roughly 2,276 tax.

Superb Combi 2.0 140 DSG with heated rear seats and parking sensors, P11D is about 26.7 k and BIK% is 25% and @ 40% marginal tax rate works out roughly 2,670 tax. (load net afaik is not available on Superb)

I'm not saying VAG are wrong to play it this way as it's exactly what I'd do, ie give preferential treatment to premium brands. What technologies are Skoda ahead in? Xenon AFS is the only one I can think of, and if put tin foil hat on speculate if this might suggest being used as a testing ground for that particular technology.

[Coops]

Agreed my friend

I've had a great time with my now 4 yr old Octavia Combi @ 115k without any issues to speak off, and would dearly love a Superb Combi but the CO2 situation means I won't be having one. I will ultimately turn to VW (Passat Estate), Audi (A4 Avant) or BMW (3 series Touring) - was thinking of a spec'd up Octavia Combi to stick with the brand but I would prefer a change.

Perhaps you're right, Skoda playing with the brand in terms of technology, they can perhaps get away with it more than they would with say VW or Audi which are perceived as the more mainstream?

[Gorillaz_Doktor]

I didn't know about the CO2 emission restriction as firm policy. That explains fully your choice and i agree with you. In romania, regarding the CO2 emissions, well...let's say that we are not so "green" and restrictions are only as far as the lease amount.

Is obvious that VW is keeping Skoda as economic brand, not premium brand, controling the CO2 is one way to do it (keep in mind that there si a silent war inside the group between skoda and vw - Passat's sales went down hard when Superb appeared). Skoda's markets are intended to be mainly in the developing countries (central, east european, emerging economies around the world). You say "I just feel that Skoda's engines aren't as well tuned as the other VWG engines." The engines are the same. The ECU maps are a different thing. On same engine units you can lower emissions only by changing the ECU maps, and these (engines and ECU maps) are delivered by ... yes, you get all the points in Jeopardy: VW. For example, Same skoda Octavia 2 (build from 2004) was (as far as emissions) Euro 3 , then, in 2005, became Euro 4. The engine was the same, but the ECU maps were "softened" so they emited less CO2.

@ Stålmunk - You are wright - Skoda takes tehnology from VW and build cars. That's why they cost less, they do not invest money in developing engines, gearboxes, chassys. Engine and gearbox - VW and Audi, Chassy - Passat CC, Butons - same as golf V, and the list goes on. If i were VW, i would do the same....

Edited 2 May, 2011 by Gorillaz_Doktor

[BilboBaggins]

Agreed my friend

I've had a great time with my now 4 yr old Octavia Combi @ 115k without any issues to speak off, and would dearly love a Superb Combi but the CO2 situation means I won't be having one. I will ultimately turn to VW (Passat Estate), Audi (A4 Avant) or BMW (3 series Touring) - was thinking of a spec'd up Octavia Combi to stick with the brand but I would prefer a change.

Perhaps you're right, Skoda playing with the brand in terms of technology, they can perhaps get away with it more than they would with say VW or Audi which are perceived as the more mainstream?

Greenline Combi produces about 114g CO2- must be some tough CO2 situation for that to be unacceptable

[Coops]

Greenline Combi produces about 114g CO2- must be some tough CO2 situation for that to be unacceptable

Nope - the Greenline is listed. Am considering it but am unsure on the 1.6 engine? I see you have one? What's it like?