winter tyre sizes

[scotsgent]

Roomster Scout 1.9 tdi current tyre size: 205 45 16

I have been offered a set of 205 55 16 winter tyres by my father in law. The size is larger than those which are currently fitted to my scout which are 205 45 16. I understand that this means the winter tyres are slightly larger all round. So, the question is: will they fit without fouling on the body work or touching any other areas of the car. Obviously, the way to be sure would be to fit them and see, but I wondered if anyone who is knowledgeable about such matters would know for sure in advance of me doing that.

Regards, Terry

[fabdavrav]

The rolling circumerence will be way out as it is a deeper side profile (55%) and this would make the speedo mis-read!!!!

[Javerhammar]

Dont you have the winter tyre option in the MFD, on my car you can add or remove 10km/h. Actually never tried it so i dont know if it's just the MFD speed and/or the analog that changes.

There are sites that calculates what tyre size can be fitted to your car.

[the_raz]

I thought that the winter tyre option in MFD is to get a warning if the winter tires have a lower speed rating than what the car is capable of.

[cheezemonkhai]

I thought that the winter tyre option in MFD is to get a warning if the winter tires have a lower speed rating than what the car is capable of.

My understanding is that the winter tyre option, sets a max speed for the tyres as winter tyres often have a lower speed rating.

[scotsgent]

Thanks for your input guys.

I found this site: http://www.kouki.co.uk/utilities/visual-tyre-size-calculator

It does a nice job of calculating the effects of a change of size.

In this case, my speedo will be in error by 6.9%

Cheers, Terry

[Lorenzo]

In Italy is plain simple because allowed tyre sizes are listed in the car's MOT documents.

BTW, my advice for winter tyres is: buy them with the lowest section you can have.

On ice and snow a narrower section means more pressure on the ground surface, and this is what you need for the tyre to get in touch with the ground underneath the frozen surface. On the contrary, larger the section, highest the chance you will have a 'floating' effect on ice and snow. This is sound advice from people dealing with very cold winters in mountains.

Second, big rims + big tyres could mean no chance of chains. Chains could be the only way to get your car out of very snowy roads without towing it. Verify it with your tyre dealer.

Third, narrower section tyres are generally cheaper.

This is why I fit 195-55 on my 15" tyres from April to November, but 185-55 winter tyres for the rest of the year (I live on a high hills - mountains area).

[scotsgent]

Thanks for that advice Lorenzo. Here there are no regulations relating to what tyres are fitted although in theory, if you didn't tell your insurance company they might not want to pay out in the event of an accident.

OK - I have another related question. Where I live (in the Highlands of Scotland) most people have winter tyres fitted to the drive wheels alone (since we only get short occasions of very bad weather and they will be used for these periods only before reverting back to the standard wheels and tyres.

OK....I KNOW that winter tyres on ALL wheels are recommended but nevertheless this is the normal set-up here for short trips on rural roads.

So........I see that 195 55 15 wheels and tyres will give the same rolling diameter as the 205 45 16 that the Roomster is currently fitted with. So......is it possible to fit the narrower smaller wheels to the drive wheels only and keep the standard wheels on the rear? (Of course, I know that it is possible in terms of fitting, but is it likely to cause any gross handling problems other than the obvious fact that winter tyres all round are usually recommended). Perhaps rephrasing the question might be a better way - assuming no snow, would this work without any gross problems? ie narrower wheels on the front and standard wheels on the rear.

Thanks, Terry

Edited 14 September, 2011 by scotsgent

[fabdavrav]

I have a full set front and rear.......they are much better than "normal" tyres even if there is no snow, as the rubber outperforms "normal" tyres at temps below +7C!!! Much better in the damp greasy slippy autumn and spring roads! I swap mine around early Nov and mid April!

[Lorenzo]

I have a full set front and rear.......they are much better than "normal" tyres even if there is no snow, as the rubber outperforms "normal" tyres at temps below +7C!!! Much better in the damp greasy slippy autumn and spring roads! I swap mine around early Nov and mid April!

Yes, you are damn right , winter tyres have better performance not only in case of ice and snow, but also below 7-8 °C, in dry or wet weather. More grip, more safety.

I suggest our friend buys 4 second-hand 15" steel rims fitted with winter tyres and keeps the original kit for spring and summer. This is what I do and think is a good way of saving money without saving on safety. If you swap them yourself, it is another way of saving money, it is not difficult.

But, please, I know some people do it, but do not fit 2 wheels only, do not fit different measures. It is very unsafe, and, I suppose, illegal.

Edited 14 September, 2011 by Lorenzo

[scotsgent]

Thanks for your useful input guys!!

A further question?

I have sourced the following:

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

(words from ad')

4 x 15" BBS Alloy wheels from a 1997 Mk3 Golf Vr6

Fitment is 5 stud, (5x100)

Recently powder coated but one wheel does have a light scuff shown in picture.

Will fit many models of Vw Audi Seat

Tyres not included but had 205/50/15 on them.

Can include wheel bolts if required.

________________________________________________________________________________________________

From what I can gather, these will make good candidates for winter wheels,and they are much cheaper at £80 the set than sourcing a set of steel wheels from the dealer).

But before I actually buy and committ myself to journeying to get them; Will they fit my current Roomster scout 1.9 tdi? (this currently has 16" wheel and 204 45 16 but I would like to end up with 15" rims and 195 55 15 or similar).

So.....will they fit OK? Will the offset of the new wheels, which I believe might be 38mm create any difficulty? (the current, skoda fitted 16" wheels offset is 43).

many thanks in advance! Cheers, Terry

Edited 23 September, 2011 by scotsgent

[The Plumber]

The official winter option for the Fabia II and Roomster is a 185/55 R15 85 H on a 6Jx15 ET43 rim. Wife's however running a 195/55 winters in place of the standard 205/45 R16 set-up on her Fabia. Would not recommend any notion of running different tyre sizes front and back or just winters on one axle; could throw you into a spin under heavy braking.

Maybe worth looking at some of the 'ready to go' packages from mytyres;

My link

TP

[Lorenzo]

@scotsgent

I suppose the wheels you think to buy are OK if they comply 6Jx15 ET43, 5x100. In case ask the seller if the offset measure is the same (ET is for offset in mm.).

As to me, I found 4 15" second-hand Golf Mk. IV steel wheels with original plastic covers at a good price. As to the tyres, I will fit Pirelli W190 Snowcontrol Series II. My dealer suggested 185/60 88T. They are slightly bigger than 185/55, a bit cheaper and will give a bit more of ground clearance.

EDIT

Actually is a Golf Mk IV wheel, sorry (5x100)

Edited 26 September, 2011 by Lorenzo

[loadswine]

Interesting, I thought the Golf Mk V had a PCD of 5x112? I've been searching for a cheap ish set of alloys to put winters on, but if those Golf items are actually 5x100, then my search is widened.

[scotsgent]

I found this list below:

At least in terms of PCD and center 'hole' these all seem compatible. I believe a 'difference' of 5mm 'error' in the offset is usually OK (in the case of the Roomster at an offset of ET 43, then between 38 - 43 is OK). Personally, I decided to stick with wheels from VAG vehicles for my search.

I have bought the very handsome 'wire spoked' BBS wheels - just refurbished and powder coated by the seller prior to sale at £80 for the 4! The ET is 43. This was a serious bargain.

I discovered that local searches made the best sense and so searched 'gumtree' each day and also my weekly 'free-ads' paper. Ebay prices for anything good were way up and then there is carriage on top and more importantly, you cant examine them until you have bought!. A local search meant lower prices, no carriage and the ability to see them before you buy.

I found it impossible to find a full set of steel wheels unless I wanted to pay around £40 per wheel. My lovely alloys, bought locally, cost half of this!

Second-hand tyres can also be a bargain. Plenty of folks buy a set of winter tyres, use them for a winter and then sell the car. The wheels don't fit the new car and the seller just wants rid of them. These can be got at half-price! Check however the 'DOT' number to ensure a recent date of manufacture and that the tyres are only 2 or 3 years old and have not been lying in a shed for 10 years!

I am now searching for a supplier of Michelin pilot alpin tyres since my research indicates that despite there being other good winter tyres around that these have the longest wear life.

Unfortunately, carriage to the Highlands of Scotland and then fitting puts at least £25 per tyre on top of the list price from the likes of 'Mytyres' or 'Etyres' and so they tend not to offer the bargain prices which they at first seem. Any recommendations of a good supplier?

Heres the list:

5x100

AUDI A3 5X100

AUDI S3 5X100

AUDI TT 5X100 28-30 57.0

CHRYSLER NEON 5X100 35-40 57.0

CHRYSLER PT CRUISER 5X100 35-40 57.0

CHRYSLER SEBRING 5X100

HOLDEN APOLLO <93 5X100

LEXUS ES 250 90-91 5X100 54.1

MG ROVER ZT 01> 5X100 38-45 56.1

ROVER 75 5X100 35 57

SEAT IBIZA 02> 5X100 35-45 57.1

SEAT LEON 99> 5X100 35-45 57.1

SEAT LEON CUPRA R 03> 5X100 35-45 57.1

SKODA FABIA 00> 5X100 35-42 57.1

SKODA OCTAVIA 97> 5X100 35-42 57.1

SUBARU FORESTER 5X100

SUBARU IMPREZA WRX 5X100

SUBARU LEGACY 5X100

SUBARU LIBERTY GEN2 BD 5X100

TOYOTA CAMRY <92 5X100

TOYOTA CELICA 86-96 5X100 54.1

TOYOTA CELICA 90-96 5X100 54.1

TOYOTA CELICA 00> 5X100 54.1

TOYOTA CORONA 5X100

VOLKSWAGON BEETLE (NEW) 98> 5X100 35-42 57.1

VOLKSWAGON BORA 98-03 5X100 35-42 57.1

VOLKSWAGON CORRADO 5-STUD 92-98 5X100 35-42 57.1

VOLKSWAGON GOLF III 5 Stud 92-98 5X100 35-42 57.1

VOLKSWAGON GOLF IV 98-03 5X100 35-42 57.1

VOLKSWAGON JETTA V-6 93-98 5X100 57.1

VOLKSWAGON JETTA 99> 5X100 57.1

Cheers, Terry

Edited 27 September, 2011 by scotsgent

[scotsgent]

I have ordered 4 winter tyres from Camskill.

Goodyear Ultragrip 8 @£63 plus £3 postage.

Why this brand? Well, I was looking at Vredestein, Nokia and Continental but the following clinched it for me: http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-articles/the-best-winter-tyres-of-adac-2010-2011-tyre-tests

From Camskills it is also very reasonably priced, much cheaper than the Michelin and Conti equivelants and its in stock.

It also had a good 'wear' resistance and rolling resistance in the tests.

In the 'tyretest' reviews (from users), it comes out very well too.

You wont find a decent brand USED tyre for less than £50 on Ebay, so buying these at £63 is in my view a no-brainer.

Cheers, Terry

Edited 30 September, 2011 by scotsgent

[loadswine]

What size did you order from Camskill Terry? I've just got a set of Audi 15" alloys and was looking at 195/55/15 winters, but Camskill's site appears to show the Goodyears at £76.60. I'm guessing that I'm shopping for a different size perhaps?

Nigel

[tuscan30]

The price difference is probably down to good old supply-and-demand.

I priced up a set of winter tyres on Friday, then spent the weekend tracking down suitable wheels. By Monday when I actually ordered the tyres the price had gone up by sixty quid !

Talking to the local tyre places they expect the prices to continue upwards so get your orders in sooner rather than later. Having said that, I couldn't find anywhere in Aberdeen that could offer me four tyres of the same make and size from stock, so it looks like there may already be a bit of a supply problem - with the inevitable effect on prices.

[fabdavrav]

The price difference is probably down to good old supply-and-demand.

I priced up a set of winter tyres on Friday, then spent the weekend tracking down suitable wheels. By Monday when I actually ordered the tyres the price had gone up by sixty quid !

Talking to the local tyre places they expect the prices to continue upwards so get your orders in sooner rather than later. Having said that, I couldn't find anywhere in Aberdeen that could offer me four tyres of the same make and size from stock, so it looks like there may already be a bit of a supply problem - with the inevitable effect on prices.

Two winters ago I ended up phoning around 8 places (big ones) in the Inverness area.......ATS were the only ones who could get me a full set...actually there were only 5 tyres left in Michelins warehouse down south and I got 4 of them!!

[scotsgent]

The tyres that are en-route are 195 60 15, these are bigger than the recommended 185 55 15.

On the Camskills site, you will see the Goodyear ultragrip 8's in this size are £63 each.

The reason is the fact that the rims I got are 6.5j rather than the usual 6j width. The 185's might have fitted OK (they are the minimum recommended width for a 6.5j width rim), but I felt more comfortable getting something a bit wider and one which sits nearer the middle of the recommended range for the rim, so I went a bit wider.

Now......this will have a knock-on effect, and one which I agree wouldn't be acceptable to everyone!

Namely, the complete wheel's 'rolling diameter' will now be larger than the original 205 45 16, not by much, but nevertheless a wee bit, (about 1cm). The result will be that at 30 mph on my clock I will actually be travelling at 31 and at 60, I will be travelling at 62mph.

To be absolutely honest, I had forgotten all about insurance implications when I decided that this 'scheme' would work OK for me. I don't do long trips in the winter and will mostly be doing local jaunts in and around Fort William/Inverness/Aberdeenshire, etc. and so can easily live with my new speed readings.

However, I now see that departing from the 'correct size' of tyre/wheel, might make me vulnerable to my insurer backing out of any claim?

However, I also see another point of view expressed on forums; namely that no one is actually going to check tyre sizes, etc. only if your tyres are in good condition (in the event of an accident) and so in practice, a slightly different tyre size is unlikely to be spotted! The impression that any policeman would get of my winter tyres is that " well, at least this guy had the very best tyres fitted")

Anyway - I hope so..... my tyres are ordered now and I will fit them to their rims next week!!

Chees, Terry

Edited 4 October, 2011 by scotsgent

[fabdavrav]

As has been said on this site and many others......DON'T go outwith the recommended OEM tyre sizes....if you have to then make sure that the roling circumferance is within the limit........if #### hits fan and you are in an accident and the asseror has to check the the car......no pay out as they will use that as an excues!!! you have been warned!!!

185/60% R15 RC = 1894mm = diff of 2.05%

195/60% R15 RC = 1932mm = diff of 4.08%

185/55% R15 RC = 1836mm = diff of -1.08%

195/55% R15 RC = 1870mm = diff of 0.78%

205/55% R16 RC = 1985mm = diff of 6.94%

205/45% R16 RC = 1856mm = OEM Fit

No more than 2.5% diff recommended!

http://www.alloywheels.com/tyrecalc.asp

Edited 4 October, 2011 by fabdavrav

[loadswine]

Yep, good advice.

I will opt for the 195/55/15 as they are only 0.78% different to my stock 205/45/16s. I've read conflicting reports on width, I always thought narrower was better in wintry conditions and that is what the ADAC think in Germany when they do their tyre testing, but Continental seem to think that wider is better with their specialist compounds and tyre construction.

I don't know for sure, but I ran a slightly narrower than stock configuration on my old Yeti last year ( 205/55/16 vs 215/50/17 ) and they were fantastic. Tyres were Continental TS830.

[fabdavrav]

Yep, good advice.

I will opt for the 195/55/15 as they are only 0.78% different to my stock 205/45/16s. I've read conflicting reports on width, I always thought narrower was better in wintry conditions and that is what the ADAC think in Germany when they do their tyre testing, but Continental seem to think that wider is better with their specialist compounds and tyre construction.

I don't know for sure, but I ran a slightly narrower than stock configuration on my old Yeti last year ( 205/55/16 vs 215/50/17 ) and they were fantastic. Tyres were Continental TS830.

General advice is to go as narrow as pos for a standard fit eg usually what was on the base model of your car (195/55 R15 for Roomster) when it came out of the factory.......but you might not be able to due to brake dics sizes.......eg on Fabia vRS MKI you can't fit the standard 14" from the base model! (vRS has 16" as standard). On Roomster the disc size is the same I think.....and there seams to be lots of clearance on a 16" so a 15" should be no problems!

[dieselglider]

The tyres that are en-route are 195 60 15, these are bigger than the recommended 185 55 15.

Namely, the complete wheel's 'rolling diameter' will now be larger than the original 205 45 16, not by much, but nevertheless a wee bit, (about 1cm). The result will be that at 30 mph on my clock I will actually be travelling at 31 and at 60, I will be travelling at 62mph.

On my Roomster, with standard sized 195/55/15 tyres the speedo over-reads by 3mph, when checked by GPS, from about 30mph up to 70mph. This is quite normal to make speedo's over-read by a small percentage, as I believe it's against the law to manufacture a speedo to under-read. So, in theory, your speedo will probably be more accurate than standard, but giving less margin for error if approaching a speed camera.

[scotsgent]

Seems like you might be right!

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=63338

I contacted my insurers this morning and informed them of the change of wheels and gave them the sizes of my new winter tyres.

"Thanks for telling us"......"no extra charge"..... was their reply!

Cheers, Terry

Edited 7 October, 2011 by scotsgent